CFZ Why Cedee Lamb is good but not great…yet

[blueblood70]

Willie…you’re right. Through 9 games this year, Cedee is 10th in receptions and 10th in yds, and tied for 4th in TDs. But my overall take on him through 2.5 seasons is still that he’s not yet an elite receiver.

true but Cooper also NOT Elite , not one elite season put up and Dez had 3 straight plus his greatness early on in punt returns, I dont care cooper's route running. Its overall production. Lambs doing what hes doing this year with little threat on the other side. that should show progress, fans dont wat to see it.

CD nearly got to 1k his first 3 seasons in row? that is great not elite.hes still a #1 regardless, his production is very similar to cooper, both great both not elite and may never be, that not what to expect, Elite is top 5, ther aren't many elite players at any positions. you want productivity and hes doing that, He was picked 17th overall, not top 5 , so where he was chosen thing doesn't truly apply.

 

[cnuball21]

NFL scouts prefer HH over electronic.

The electronic times were actually hand timed start and electronic finish until they changed to fully electronic about 10 years ago.

An electronic start is difficult to implement. Different player starting body positions and different player sizes can cause false timer starts. Many electronic times are adjusted afterwards because of this problem. The adjustments are an estimate.

That means some players electronic times are adjusted and others are not.

The best method would be to use high frame rate video.

There was a proposal to use a pad under the players that would sense when the player's weight was gone. That was not implemented because they didn't want to put something under the players. That type of system is also prone to reliability issues and requires frequent calibration.

Umm…what? Handheld times have been long known to be vastly exaggerated in the players favor. Combine times are a level playing field and is the bar which players are evaluated on.

 

[blueblood70]

Willie…you’re right. Through 9 games this year, Cedee is 10th in receptions and 10th in yds, and tied for 4th in TDs. But my overall take on him through 2.5 seasons is still that he’s not yet an elite receiver.

Neither is cooper not sure why he has to by, having a solid #1 is all that should be expected and hes shown he could do that without Cooper on the other side. allegedly drawing coverage, CD was supposed to struggle and from where i sit having his best season.

AC had never broke 1200 yards or double digit Tds , his route running doesn't make him elite, his production is in line with CeeDEEs..

 

[xwalker]

Umm…what? Handheld times have been long known to be vastly exaggerated in the players favor. Combine times are a level playing field and is the bar which players are evaluated on.

Did you read what I posted. Electronic times were hand timed starts and electronic finishes until about 10 years ago.

They resisted electronic start timing for a long time because it is difficult to implement without some false timer starts. It still requires adjustment for some players due to false start issues.

 

[Mr_437]

Watching CeeDee he's not great because he doesn't fight for the ball, and honestly I don't recall him winning a 50/50 ball. CeeDee is cool, but he doesn't have enough dawg in him for me. However, he's a decent WR tho.

 

[Ranching]

Cedee Lamb is a very good NFL wide receiver. I’m glad he’s a Cowboy and I look forward to seeing him continue to improve. But….he’s not yet the elite receiver he was drafted to be. He’s been good, just not great. Again, at least not yet.

Below are the reasons why in my opinion Cedee Lamb has not yet cracked the list of elite receivers. I would rank him perhaps top 20 but nowhere near the top 10.

• Finished 21st in receptions in 2021 with 79 receptions.
• Finished 16th in yards in 2021 with 1,102 yds.
• Finished 35th in TD receptions in 2021 with 6.
  
• Had a streak of 17 straight games without 100 yards or more in a game. (Had his first 100 yd game since last Oct last Sunday vs Pack)
• Went 9 straight games without a TD reception from 2021-22.
• His rookie season of 2020, he definitely had a good year- 74 receptions for 935 yds and 5 TDs. That’s very good for a rookie, but he finished 27th in receptions and 22nd in yards, 32nd in TDs.
• Has had a problem with drops in his first two years although it’s gotten better of late.
• Is known to be a lazy route runner who doesn’t make route adjustments crisply.
• Is excellent with yards after catch- finished top 5 last year.
  
• Doesn’t possess great speed but is very quick.

Bottom line for me- Lamb is a really good receiver. He’s at best a low end #1 or high end #2 receiver. But the above makes it clear to me, he’s not “elite”. Maybe he can develop more in several areas and become elite.

I’m hoping he continues to work hard to improve his game. He’s still only 24. I’m not knocking the guy but just being honest about what kind of receiver he is at this point. Good but not great.

What I see is he doesn't put in the time in the film room and does everything on pure God given ability.

 

[cnuball21]

Did you read what I posted. Electronic times were hand timed starts and electronic finishes until about 10 years ago.

They resisted electronic start timing for a long time because it is difficult to implement without some false timer starts. It still requires adjustment for some players due to false start issues.

Yea, so why do you think they replaced hand times with electronic times?

No one takes hand tones seriously…they’re a joke. Scouts add on .05-.1 seconds on times from pro days.

 

[blueblood70]

Watching CeeDee he's not great because he doesn't fight for the ball, and honestly I don't recall him winning a 50/50 ball. CeeDee is cool, but he doesn't have enough dawg in him for me. However, he's a decent WR tho.

Has more passion in him than Cooper that's a fact, having a better season at this point then cooper.

aj brown got 100mil and cost the eagles draft picks, CEEDEE and AJ nearly identical stats this year.

right i guess none are great with those parameters all being equally judged.,

 

[CouchCoach]

If you watched him at OU, he was college open all the time and made his name with YAC in the Big 12, not overrun with the greatest DB's. He dropped to the Cowboys for a reason but he was still a good pick.

He is a good WR, but like some actors, better in an ensemble cast than as a WR1 and he doesn't worry DC's and secondaries enough. Cooper worried them because of his route running and ability to separate on the intermediate to deep patterns.

However, how many of those truly WR1's are there in the NFL? It's not like every team has one.

 

[Mr_437]

Has more passion in him than Cooper that's a fact, having a better season at this point then cooper.

aj brown got 100mil and cost the eagles draft picks, CEEDEE and AJ nearly identical stats this year.

right i guess none are great with those parameters all being equally judged.,

This thread and my comments have nothing to do with any other WR. What I said about CeeDee is true imo and again I like him, but I also observe his flaws and don't make excuses or deflect for him.

 

[blueblood70]

This thread and my comments have nothing to do with any other WR. What I said about CeeDee is true imo and again I like him, but I also observe his flaws and don't make excuses or deflect for him.

Yes they are all #1s, considered starters, considered good to great, has EVERTYHNG to do with my replay to your very skewed replay,,..obe was traded for given up draft picks and 100mil the other was paid 22mil CEEDEE on rookie deal is going toe to toe with both

its very relative.

 

[erod]

There will never be an elite receiver with Dak Prescott.

 

[Mr_437]

Yes they are all #1s, considered starters, considered good to great, has EVERTYHNG to do with my replay to your very skewed replay,,..obe was traded for given up draft picks and 100mil the other was paid 22mil CEEDEE on rookie deal is going toe to toe with both

its very relative.

In your opinion. I said CeeDee doesn't fight for the ball and doesn't catch 50/50 balls. You've gone out your way to single out my comment for your off topic opinion that has nothing to do with what I said about CeeDee or the OP.

 

[blueblood70]

In your opinion. I said CeeDee doesn't fight for the ball and doesn't catch 50/50 balls. You've gone out your way to single out my comment for your off topic opinion that has nothing to do with what I said about CeeDee or the OP.

just because hes different doesn't make him less of player. SC doesn't have Dog in him not passionate or Firey at all..most zoners had no issue paying coop 22mil and in fact want him back and say hes better than CD, hes NOT.. good thing for CEEDEE is, hes actually improving and getting better Coop is a finished product.,

 

[xwalker]

Gonna have to disagree witcha on his speed times. At the 2020 NFL Combine, Lamb showed off his many skills, but his official 40 yard dash time was 4.51. Which was one reason he fell to the Cowboys at pick 17 that year. Again, I like Cedee Lamb. He has an excellent WR skill set. And he’s certainly fast enough. But speed would not be one of his top measureables.

There are actually 3 times:
Raw electronic
Adjusted electronic
HandHeld

Some years WalterFootball posted all 3. Lamb was sub 4.5 in the unadjusted electronic and HandHeld times.

There is a reason that HandHeld times are part of the official combine database.

Teams look at the variation in electronic and HandHeld to judge the accuracy. If one player has a difference of 0.01 Elevtronic vs HH and another player has a difference of 0.08 then teams take that into consideration. Players with with statistical outliers in terms of this difference are considered to have a questionable official time.

For top 100 type prospects, teams like to time players themselves. Some teams time all players at the combine themselves. The Pro Days that teams attend are also hand timed by the team.

No doubt that CeeDee does not have Tyreek Hill speed, but most #1WRs don't have that type of speed.

Dez ran a 4.52 but on his rookie season punt returns, he was often fastest player on the field.

Davante Adams electronic time was 4.56 seconds.

CeeDee is middle of the pack compared to #1
WRs in terms of speed.

His issue is all about route running. He has to do it consistently. He didn't run as many if any option routes when Cooper was the #1 WR but this season on most passing plays he is running option routes.

He has clearly failed on 2 option routes in the past 2 games that caused INTs.

If they remove the option routes then it become easy for defenses to game plan him.

Witten became the top TE in Cowboys history because of his ability to run Y-option.

Perfectly executed option routes by the receiver and corresponding execution by the QB makes the defense "always wrong".

 

[Acceptablename]

I don’t think he’s tough

 

[CowboyRoy]

Here’s a question of relativity: Michael Gallup is currently 149th in receiving yards. Do you believe there are 148 receivers in the nfl currently better than Michael Gallup?

Not sure how you think this is a legitimate question. First off he is just coming back from a major injury. Then he missed the first 4 games of the season. On top of that he had no TC, offseason, and when he got here it was our backup QB.

I dont think its a fair evaluation. We have seen Gallup here for 4 years.

So no, I dont see 148 better.

 

[Diehardblues]

I’m not sure why this matters but yea he’s not Elite but still good .

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Not sure how you think this is a legitimate question. First off he is just coming back from a major injury. Then he missed the first 4 games of the season. On top of that he had no TC, offseason, and when he got here it was our backup QB.

I dont think its a fair evaluation. We have seen Gallup here for 4 years.

So no, I dont see 148 better.

Interesting perspective. So his personal statline is defined by context surrounding a unique circumstance, and can’t equally compare to his peers on a strictly cumulative basis.

And in your own deduction, it wouldn’t be right to rule out the receivers who are out-performing Lamb on a game-to-game basis, but are only behind him in cumulative stats due to time missed.

Top 10 only if you purposefully ignore context

 

[stilltheguru]

I just want him to improve his iq and hands. He does that I won't have anything bad to say about him