Why did we pick Spencer in the first round?

[iceberg]

Oh, c'mon. He's hardly the first rookie not to start his rookie year.

Troy Polomalu didn't start his rookie year. I don't think Pittsburgh regrets picking him in the 1st.

I guess he wasn't ready to start; which is supported by the fact that Parcells didn't start him until late in the season. Which is certainly plausible, given the fact that we did have him learn two different positions as a rookie in a scheme he has never played before. Not all rookies "get it" their rookie year.

I don't want to argue with you on this, really. Its not worth it. So I'll just conclude with "Evil Parcells" and delete my other post.

i'm not saying he isn't - but normally the 1st pick at least makes the active roster. did polomalu go inactive a lot in his rookie year? no idea, so maybe he did.

now if you're going to focus on the negative and twist it to "evil parcells" can you acknowledge i *also* said carpenter looked good when he did play? or is it in vogue to only pick a portion of an opinion to rally against?

 

[Vintage]

I saw the OSU games believe me. That all I seem to catch up here is Spielman on Saturdays doing Buck games on ESPN2.

Carpenter doesnt have a great first step. Sure he can run but his initial burst is what will kill him in the NFL. Both Carp and Spencer rushing Big 10 Tackles is hard to do, but of course is much harder on the pro level.

I am on the Bobby bandwagon and have been. I root for the Big 10 players and Domers. I just don't think he is physical enough yet but should be with another year of lifting. He was already big at OSU and knows how to lift , its just a matter of working on his quick twitch.

He might not have the greatest first step in the world.

But Wade was commenting on how he liked Carpenter's ability to rush the passer. And considering Spencer/Ware will be on the outside (and should be good pass rushers), it makes sense to move Carpenter inside where he can play in coverage and blitz (whereas James hasn't really been a good blitzer).

All in all, Ware/Spencer/Carpenter should form a nice trio of LBers with the necessary speed, athleticism, and pass rushing ability.

 

[sago1]

Apparently Carpenter has shown good pass rushing skills & also good in pass coverage. On the other hand he lacks the strength/size to defend against the run as an OLB. As an ILB, he still limited by his run defense play but his pass rush/defense can be better utilized in the various inside blitz packages Wade has developed. But since Bradie James is very good against the run but weak against the pass/pass rusher, he's the listed starter. Just keep in mind this doesn't mean this situation is permanent. Carpenter's entering his 2nd season & just completed his first off season weight conditioning program. Many coaches (Parcells especially) believed in giving a player 3 years to develop and Carpenter has certainly progressed. Point is that Carpenter could very easily become physically stronger next year (even tho he'd still be 6-2) & legtimately challenge James/beat out James in 08. Given Parcells belief in drafting players who met his physical requirements, frankly I think he relied a little too much of old boy tie to Carpenter. But again, later in this season we could all be raving about Carpenter and his number of sacks/QB pressures & wondering why he was ever critized.

Finally, you say Carpenter is fast enough and strong enough to play OLB. Obviously Wade didn't feel that way and we gotta take his opinion over yours. I also think Cowboys had to protect themselves if Ellis couldn't come back (no matter what they publicly said) and Ellis is 32 and Wade really wants the option of 3 legit pass rushers in his 3-4. BTW: Understand Spencer is fast & very strong and very smart. I must admit I was surprised when we traded back into the first round to draft him. Let's just hope Wade was right.

As for not drafting a DT, I think we all wanted the Cowboys to do that but I get the feeling they didn't think some of the players who available when we drafted would fit the bill.

Share you disappointment we didn't use a high pick to grab a quality CB. But nothing can be done about that now. Hope we don't pay a big price for that decision. BTW: I was very surprised with the Marten pick. Free was still on the board & I believed he was best OT on the board after top 2-3 taken in first round. But we got Marten & that increases our OL depth. How much Stanback brings to the team we should learn soon. If he becomes the player the Cowboys believe he can be--PR & quality WR (maybe even a #1 WR?), then a 4th round price is cheap.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Some well thought out answers on "Why Spencer?"

1. Carpenter doesn't have the quick first step that Spencer has. I don't think he's as strong either.

2. I think Carpenter is much better in pass coverage, which is very desirable from the ILB position. I mean the ILB's aren't going to be blitzing every down-- someone has to be able to play in coverage. I think Carpenter fits this role to a "T".

3. As we've found out you can't have enough guys that have pass-rush potential.

4. Our depth at LB (and DE for that matter) is very, very good. I almost felt sorry for the Colts Thursday night. We're trotting out guys like Carpenter, Carpenter and Glymph against the Colt's 2nd & 3rd teamers and we were eating their lunch.

 

[junk]

I'm going to laugh when the team drafts another pass rusher high next year and people freak out (somewhere between rounds 2-4 is my guess).

You can't have enough pass rushers. I'm almost wondering if Ellis will even be able to contribute at all this year.

 

[BouncingCheese]

From what I saw when he was at OSU, he didn't have great instincts... not like AJ hawk. Carpenter made up for that with his crazy athletic ability. That won't cut it in the NFL.

My issue is that you can't really teach instincts, and that we already knew about his limitations, especially those, way before draft day and possbily those pro days.

But like I said, I still think he can be productive and won't bust. I am rooting for this guy alot. He can be a solid player in the right system.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I'm going to laugh when the team drafts another pass rusher high next year and people freak out (somewhere between rounds 2-4 is my guess).

I think you're 100% right.

Another pass-rusher.
Potentially another running back.
Another corner.
Potentially another wide receiver.
Potentially a guard/center.
Potentially a NT.

Some combination of those for the first 4 rounds.

 

[BouncingCheese]

I'm going to laugh when the team drafts another pass rusher high next year and people freak out (somewhere between rounds 2-4 is my guess).

You can't have enough pass rushers. I'm almost wondering if Ellis will even be able to contribute at all this year.

You really can not have enough pass rushers. Heck the more we have the more we can rotate in and keep fresh. But I will get pissed if we draft one in the top two or three rounds.

Also, Carpenter is not the type of player who should rush the passer three consecutive downs in a row all game. Carpenter also may not have the instincts that a good OLB in Phillips scheme should have...Like say to have the prescence of mind to not blitz because the qb called a screen play to that side.

That is my guess(es) as to why Phillips put him at ILB.

 

[Seven]

When we were in the 4-3 didn't we have, Haley, Tolbert, Jimmie Jones, Jeffcoat, Casillas, Maryland and Lett as our rotating defensive line? Same difference, I think.

IMO, I think Carpenter is gonna be everywhere..................

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I'm going to laugh when the team drafts another pass rusher high next year and people freak out (somewhere between rounds 2-4 is my guess).

You can't have enough pass rushers. I'm almost wondering if Ellis will even be able to contribute at all this year.

We definitely need one more... And that's assuming Spencer becomes a good player. Nothing too high... I'm thinking third round or so.

But as others like Winicki said, Spencer and Carp are very different players. Carp is a "pure" LB who can run and cover and do a little of everything. Spencer is a lot bigger and stronger (265 vs. 250 or so) and is a pure upfield passrusher who can tangle with LTs and play the run up on the line.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Why did we pick Spencer in the first round?

Our pass rush has been so awesome since Haley left, I don't understand the pick either.

 

[Hailmary]

I personally would have preferred Meachem, but I can't complain w/ taking Spencer. It was the safer pick I guess.

 

[BouncingCheese]

IF we draft another pass rusher make it along the defensive line PLEASE. I think who we have at Linebacker is full of different players with different skill sets. I don't think there are even more than a handful of teams that have as eclectic a group as we do. Bradie James could be a 4-3 MLB or a 3-4 ILB. Ayodele was a 4-3 LB in Jacksonville and is a ILB in the 3-3 here; heck Ayodele could be a situational Defensive end in a 4-3 as well. Carpenter and Burnett could both be OLB's in a 4-3. Ware and Spencer are defensive ends in a 4-3 defense. Point is not many teams could switch to a 4-3 and have it's players make as smooth a transition as would those aforementioned players.

IMHO, I think the line is more important to Carpenters success as well as the rest of the LB's. The line players are bigger and stronger than they are.

 

[VA Cowboy]

all you have to do is say "oops, i was wrong for that - apologies." and i'll let it go.
enough.

You mean like you let it go 4 days ago?

so run. i'm done.

VA can go argue with himself ... i'm done talking to him

:laugh2:

 

[Clove]

Don't get me wrong, he is a talented fellow from all the reports I've read but dude, we have Carpenter on the roster already. He is plenty fast and strong enough to be an outside pass-rushing LB. Why didn't we draft a position of need in the first? Maybe a CB or a DT?

I'm starting to learn my lesson the hard way. I made and "arse" of myself by saying that Fasano would go down as the worst pick in Cowboy history, without giving him a chance to succeed.

And now, I will never blast a team for loading up on one position, you just can't have enough talent on the team. There are times when we will see, Carpenter/Burnett/Ware and Spencer on the field at the same time (alot).. What a LB group that is.

 

[zrinkill]

What a LB group that is.

Exactly ...... but people just like to complain .... yet they do not like when people complain about their complaining.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Not a natural pass rusher?

That's odd.

Because the Buckeyes trotted him out as a DE in nickle/dime situations as a senior.

He might not be a natural 3-4 OLB in Wade's scheme, which would be given credence by the fact that he is being moved inside....but even then, Wade has talked about he likes Carpenter's ability to rush the passer.

and the Cowboys have been using him w/ his hand on the ground in practices this year, same as last year

 

[HighTechDave]

I think the Cowboys picked Spencer, because he is good.

There, that summed it up in only a few words, instead of a whole thread...

 

[blindzebra]

Evidently a lot of people didn't watch the Colts game.

Carpenter's blitz from inside started the Davis pick six, the OL went for Carpenter and left Obomese unblocked.

After the Glymph/Ratliff sack, Carp was inside, navigated the blockers and planted the RB for a short gain.

On the very next play he's at DE and gets a good push that forces the QB to step up and throw early causing an incompletion.

Later he's calling out the play, makes coverage adjustments pre-snap, and after the snap he can be seen waving to Elam...he moved him into perfect position to break up the pass.

My prediction is that before the years over, Carpenter is going to be our most valuable LB not named Ware.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

On the one good play the Colts had, that crossing pattern to Harrison, a certain LB was trailing badly. Obviously you don't expect any LB to cover a WR tightly, especially Harrison. But that's part of the LB's role, to not just play forwards, but to get back and help cover a zone, too. I'm not saying Carpenter would have gotten back to break up the pass, but he'd make it harder for QBs to fit the ball in those windows behind him.