Why Doesn't Wade get the Credit??

[Drlabon]

I see a lot of talk regarding which assistant coaches leaving but I think people are forgetting how bad this team was at the end of last year especially on the defensive side. There is no question that this team would be 13-3 without the strong 2nd half of the season put forth by the defense led by Brian Stewart and Wade Phillips. Remember Parcells didn't want T.O. on the team and had several questionable free agent signings and draft picks (Rogers, Peterman, Thorton, etc..) Maybe more people should be concerned if Brian Stewart and Ray Sherman were interviewing for higher coaching positions. If Garrett and Sparano both leave, I think that with the players currently in place that a good coordinator (Cam Cameron) could direct the offense.

 

[The Panch]

He does get the credit.....when we're struggling. Parcells gets the credit when we're winning.

 

[bbgun]

Jesus. We're still trying to figure out how much credit Jerry gets for the glory years. Wade can wait.

 

[zrinkill]

He does get the credit.....when we're struggling. Parcells gets the credit when we're winning.

:laugh2: Jerry and Wade are a perfect team.

 

[Bach]

I think Wade deserves a lot of credit this year. Bill did a good job building this team back up, but as a coach, with his overly conservative approach and his rough, grumpy style - I think he took us about as far as he could.

At least for this year, the approach Wade brought to the team along with Garrett opening up the offense and TO being part of the team and not just "the player", imo, helped catapult us to where we are.

While I much prefer BP here for personnel acquisition, I seriously believe that if he were coaching this year we wouldn't have had the same success.

Now in the long run though, I'm not sure how Wade's laid back approach will work. But for this year, he deserves much credit for getting us where we are.

 

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Many of us do give Wade his credit. I've said so many times that I think it is a hard choice who to keep -- if you have to choose -- Wade or Garrett. Wade deserves Credit for the 13-3, but I still want to keep Garrett as the future HC. It might be foolishness, but it seems like it should be destiny.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

A big reason is that many, particularly the media, don't want to admit they are wrong.

They don't want to admit that it was foolish to lump in Wade with Norv and of course, Jerry is supposed to be an idiot that would screw it up. It doesn't matter that Wade's coaching record was far better than Norv's (and his defensive credentials are probably better than Norv's offensive credentials) and it doesn't matter than Jerry has won 3 Super Bowls, Jerry is the dolt and Wade is the puppet and they were supposed to fail.

When it didn't happen, instead of admitting that they were wrong they would rather just say that Parcells built the team and Wade is along for the ride and how Garrett is carrying the team.




YAKUZA

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Did Switzer get credit?

 

[superpunk]

Declared bankruptcy. 2 years ago. His credit will come in time...

 

[Bach]

Did Switzer get credit?

No, nor should he.

 

[Drlabon]

My theory for why Parcells didn't succeed is pretty simple. 1) He did not get a half-way accredited quarterback at the beginnig of the process i.e. he probably should have signed Delhomme his first offseason (although I think Jerry's instance that Parcells look at Carter and Hutchinson is partly to blame). 2) He did not hire a 3-4 defensive coordinator that he trusted, while Zimmer was loyal and hardworking, you could tell Parcells never truly trusted him, which is why the defense never made signficant/intelligent adjustments towards the end of the season. 3) He was older at the end and did not have strength to be a head coach anymore.

 

[superpunk]

Did Switzer get credit?

It's a similar situation, but with really significant differences.

Yes, Switzer took over a stacked team, and won with Jimmy's players. But he didn't make them any better, as a playoff exit attests and after all, they had ALREADY won the super bowl, so Switzer broke new ground there.

OTOH, yes - Wade is winning with Parcells' players - but he has already taken them to heights that were not achieved under Parcells.

That, IMO would be the significant difference between the two, even though Switzer seems to be used as an example of "That's just the way it is" with regards to winning with other team's players.

People tried to make the same rationalization with Gruden and the 2002 Bucs, but I don't think it was accurate. With any great "cake", as a superbowl team is, there are always many "chefs" that contributed. If Wade wins it all this year, many "chefs" will be credited, not the least of which is Parcells. And I don't think that's any reason to get upset, or take it as a slight to Wade. It's just the way it is, lol.

Lots of people made this team what it is. When the list of super-bowl winning coaches gets thrown up, it's not going to say "Wade Phillips - with significant contributions from Bill Parcells".

 

[Bach]

Yes, Switzer took over a stacked team, and won with Jimmy's players.

Oh no you diidn't.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

It's a similar situation, but with really significant differences.

Yes, Switzer took over a stacked team, and won with Jimmy's players. But he didn't make them any better, as a playoff exit attests and after all, they had ALREADY won the super bowl, so Switzer broke new ground there.

OTOH, yes - Wade is winning with Parcells' players - but he has already taken them to heights that were not achieved under Parcells.

That, IMO would be the significant difference between the two, even though Switzer seems to be used as an example of "That's just the way it is" with regards to winning with other team's players.

People tried to make the same rationalization with Gruden and the 2002 Bucs, but I don't think it was accurate. With any great "cake", as a superbowl team is, there are always many "chefs" that contributed. If Wade wins it all this year, many "chefs" will be credited, not the least of which is Parcells. And I don't think that's any reason to get upset, or take it as a slight to Wade. It's just the way it is, lol.

Lots of people made this team what it is. When the list of super-bowl winning coaches gets thrown up, it's not going to say "Wade Phillips - with significant contributions from Bill Parcells".

It should. And throw Jerry a bone too. So I don't start any twenty page debates.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Oh no you diidn't.

:laugh2:

 

[Yakuza Rich]

My theory for why Parcells didn't succeed is pretty simple. 1) He did not get a half-way accredited quarterback at the beginnig of the process i.e. he probably should have signed Delhomme his first offseason (although I think Jerry's instance that Parcells look at Carter and Hutchinson is partly to blame). 2) He did not hire a 3-4 defensive coordinator that he trusted, while Zimmer was loyal and hardworking, you could tell Parcells never truly trusted him, which is why the defense never made signficant/intelligent adjustments towards the end of the season. 3) He was older at the end and did not have strength to be a head coach anymore.

I think #2 had a bigger part to do with it. Sacks strongly correlate to winning in the NFL and Zimmer's defenses just don't get many sacks. It doesn't mean that Dallas would've won a Super Bowl, but he probably would've had better regular season records, particularly in 2003, 2005 and 2006.

And I'm convinced it has little to do with trust since he gave Zimmer a lot of leeway. Zimmer's defenses couldn't sack the QB before Parcells came here and while we ran Zimmer's coveted 4-3/Tampa 2 look. Then when Zimmer went to the Falcons this year they struggled sacking the QB, despite having defensive personnel tailor made for his Tampa 2. Dallas has immediately improved on defense under Wade and in particular in the ability to pressure the QB. That's a big reason why Wade is probably a much better HC than given credit for, he gets his defenses to sack the QB which correlates so strongly to victory.


YAKUZA

 

[Drlabon]

I am not certain what others on this forum may think, but some of my reading indicates Parcells gets a little too much credit for some of the key acquisitions for the Cowboys. For example, I believe it was Sean Payton who championed Romo.

Didn't Parcells want Robertson instead of Newman

Parcells moved Andre Gurode to guard favoring Al Johnson at Center

Preferred Keyshawn over TO last year

Started Bledsoe over Romo Last Year

Directed the Conditioning Staff to add more weight (than needed) to the linebacking core, making them extremely slow

Strong Roy Williams supporter

Did not sign or really draft a good free safety

I could go on and on but you get the point, Parcells does deserve some credit the team was absolute crap before he got there, but his record indicates that he was a .500 coach while he was here with two playoff appearences and no wins. I think more than anything the organization learned not to take over the top risk-oriented chances on draft picks and to some degree free-agents (better structured contracts with less chance of destroying the team if the player doesn't work out).

 

[bbgun]

The weird thing is that while he significantly upgraded the talent level of the team, we (probably) wouldn't be having this kind of season had he stayed. Either it's a coincidence that we got better when he left, or he simply left one year too soon.

 

[Drlabon]

I think #2 had a bigger part to do with it. Sacks strongly correlate to winning in the NFL and Zimmer's defenses just don't get many sacks. It doesn't mean that Dallas would've won a Super Bowl, but he probably would've had better regular season records, particularly in 2003, 2005 and 2006.

And I'm convinced it has little to do with trust since he gave Zimmer a lot of leeway. Zimmer's defenses couldn't sack the QB before Parcells came here and while we ran Zimmer's coveted 4-3/Tampa 2 look. Then when Zimmer went to the Falcons this year they struggled sacking the QB, despite having defensive personnel tailor made for his Tampa 2. Dallas has immediately improved on defense under Wade and in particular in the ability to pressure the QB. That's a big reason why Wade is probably a much better HC than given credit for, he gets his defenses to sack the QB which correlates so strongly to victory.


YAKUZA

I am not certain how much leeway Zimmer actually got, I have read several articles that quoted former cowboy coaches that Parcells limited what Zimmer could do with the defense. One particular article I read indicated that Belicheck would attempt to make various adjustments (early in Parcells tenure in New York) to the defense that Parcells did not approve of and woudn't allow and that it took a few years before Belicheck started making decisions on his own, in fact I think Parcells was quoted by another player in the article telling Belicheck its your *** if it doesn't work (referring to the calls and adjustments). I wouldn't compare Zimmer to Belicheck but my point is that I am not really certain if Parcells allowed Zimmer to make certain adjustments either due to trust or because of lack of capability on the part of Zimmer.

 

[TheHerd]

My theory for why Parcells didn't succeed is pretty simple. 1) He did not get a half-way accredited quarterback at the beginnig of the process i.e. he probably should have signed Delhomme his first offseason (although I think Jerry's instance that Parcells look at Carter and Hutchinson is partly to blame). 2) He did not hire a 3-4 defensive coordinator that he trusted, while Zimmer was loyal and hardworking, you could tell Parcells never truly trusted him, which is why the defense never made signficant/intelligent adjustments towards the end of the season. 3) He was older at the end and did not have strength to be a head coach anymore.

Can I add a few:
1. Refused to use TO properly. Since I'm assuming Bill is a good coach it had to be a decision he made.
2. Acute risk aversion.
3. Morale buster.

I think that grumpy crap wears on you. It works for Belichick because he won early and the Robotrons will now do anything he says and with the media up their butt it's pretty easy to keep everyone happy.