Why Josh McDaniels?

[Alexander]

That just depresses me.

It should.

That is how you can overcome injuries and that darn bad luck.

The Patriots specialize in maticulous preparation. That leads to the kind of execution that Phillips and Garrett talk about but never seem to get.

 

[percyhoward]

That just depresses me.

They moved the chains with Welker, they ran the ball 32 times a game, and they didn't make stupid mistakes.

That bores me. But it sure worked.

 

[Hostile]

It should.

That is how you can overcome injuries and that darn bad luck.

The Patriots specialize in maticulous preparation. That leads to the kind of execution that Phillips and Garrett talk about but never seem to get.

Landry and Shula were the masters of this.

 

[Rampage]

It should.

That is how you can overcome injuries and that darn bad luck.

The Patriots specialize in maticulous preparation. That leads to the kind of execution that Phillips and Garrett talk about but never seem to get.

well a start would be to stop having dj's and throwing parties during practice.

 

[theogt]

That just depresses me.

While that sort of discrepancy likely has a good bit of impact, in general, penalties have almost zero correlation whatsoever with winning percentage. People place entirely too much emphasis on limiting penalties.

 

[Alexander]

well a start would be to stop having dj's and throwing parties during practice.

I think I have said this before too. Top down. It starts at the top and goes right on down. If it is not an organizational directive, it does not matter. You could get a reanimated zombie Vince Lombardi in here and it would not matter if his efforts are not reinforced by the owner and general manager.

 

[percyhoward]

People place entirely too much emphasis on limiting penalties.

Limiting penalties is a big part of what kept that offense on the field. They ran more plays from scrimmage than any other team.

 

[Alexander]

While that sort of discrepancy likely has a good bit of impact, in general, penalties have almost zero correlation whatsoever with winning percentage. People place entirely too much emphasis on limiting penalties.

I believe the Titans were penalized nine times fewer than we were and that was an excuse Phillips used. But I can guarantee you there was more discipline and structure from top to bottom in that organization as well. It also depends on the type of penalties and the timing.

I do believe there is a decent correlation between a disciplined and prepared team and penalties. You might have a statistical anomaly every now and then but I feel confident you will see more winning teams with fewer penalties and turnovers. Those are the two statistics I feel give an accurate gauge of how prepared a team is.

 

[dbair1967]

The Pats only had 57 penalties on offense, fewest in the league.

Dallas had 119, most in the league.

And again, this ultimately doesnt matter much...alot of the most penalized teams in football this yr are in the playoffs

The one thing those numbers dont show is how many of those 119 were bad calls vs Dallas, or how many things NE got away with. They are alot like Indy in that their OL holds a ton, and they are almost never called for it.

 

[theogt]

Limiting penalties is a big part of what kept that offense on the field. They ran more plays from scrimmage than any other team.

Believe it or not, but there's actually a negative correlation (-.234) between the number of penalties committed and the number of plays from scrimmage. In other words, teams with more penalties had more plays from scrimmage.

Also, there's no correlation whatsoever between penalties committed and time of possession (.026 coefficient).

Any way you slice it, the total number of penalties just don't matter.

I believe the Titans were penalized nine times fewer than we were and that was an excuse Phillips used. But I can guarantee you there was more discipline and structure from top to bottom in that organization as well. It also depends on the type of penalties and the timing.

I do believe there is a decent correlation between a disciplined and prepared team and penalties. You might have a statistical anomaly every now and then but I feel confident you will see more winning teams with fewer penalties and turnovers. Those are the two statistics I feel give an accurate gauge of how prepared a team is.

What does that matter if there's no correlation between penalties and winning? This year may be a statistical anomaly, but I seriously doubt it.

 

[Alexander]

What does that matter if there's no correlation between penalties and winning?

Because stupid penalties in crucial situations do matter. Like I said before; The timing and type of penalty make a difference. I could care less if my get three personal foul penalties for roughness a game. It sends a message to the other team and establishes a tone and as long as it does not happen on a crucial third down the harm is not there. But if they are dumb three dumb taunting penalties, it is going to have a mental effect. Also, if a team knows you are prone to dumb penalties, they will do more to encourage free yards out of you. Just strictly looking at numbers can lead to false assumptions if the situations are not considered.

 

[theogt]

Because stupid penalties in crucial situations do matter. Like I said before; The timing and type of penalty make a difference. I could care less if my get three personal foul penalties for roughness a game. It sends a message to the other team and establishes a tone and as long as it does not happen on a crucial third down the harm is not there. But if they are dumb three dumb taunting penalties, it is going to have a mental effect. Also, if a team knows you are prone to dumb penalties, they will do more to encourage free yards out of you. Just strictly looking at numbers can lead to false assumptions if the situations are not considered.

Your argument is basically this: (1) a high number of "total penalties" is likely highly correlative to a high number of "costly penalties," and (2) a high number of "costly penalties" is likely highly correlative to winning percentage.

If that were true, you'd almost certainly see some sort of correlation between total penalties and winning percentage. But you don't, so I'm forced to reject your argument based on the facts we know.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Like Wade said at his PC, nobody wants penalties, but they are down the line in importance and people who focus on them are focusing on the wrong thing.

It's turnovers that matter. And IIRC, he said we finished second in the NFC in them. That simply cannot happen if you want to win.

Wonder how many the Pats had?

 

[NextGenBoys]

Like Wade said at his PC, nobody wants penalties, but they are down the line in importance and people who focus on them are focusing on the wrong thing.

It's turnovers that matter. And IIRC, he said we finished second in the NFC in them. That simply cannot happen if you want to win.

Wonder how many the Pats had?

Pats had 21 turnovers, and 22 takeaways for a +1 differential.

We were 2nd to last in the league with a -11 behind Denver and SF who were both at -17. 33 turnovers and 22 takeaways.

Same amount of takeaways, yet we couldnt take care of the ball.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Pats had 21 turnovers, and 22 takeaways for a +1 differential.

We were 2nd to last in the league with a -11 behind Denver and SF who were both at -17. 33 turnovers and 22 takeaways.

Same amount of takeaways, yet we couldnt take care of the ball.

Thanks for the research...

So we had the same number of takeaways on defense as the Pats, but a dozen more giveaways on offense. Interesting.

McDaniel vs. Garrett, there's a lot of your answer right there.

 

[dbair1967]

Pats had 21 turnovers, and 22 takeaways for a +1 differential.

We were 2nd to last in the league with a -11 behind Denver and SF who were both at -17. 33 turnovers and 22 takeaways.

Same amount of takeaways, yet we couldnt take care of the ball.

we turn it over too much and for all the talent and pass rush we had, dont get nearly enough takeaways

might be a different story next yr

 

[theogt]

I forgot to put this in my post above. There is actually a negative correlation between total penalties and 1st downs per game (-.257), which means that teams with more penalties obtain more first downs. Bizarre, but true.

 

[NextGenBoys]

we turn it over too much and for all the talent and pass rush we had, dont get nearly enough takeaways

might be a different story next yr

I was definitely expecting more takeaways this year. Especially considering we played so much zone in the beginning of the year. Oddly enough, when we switched to more man is when we started getting picks.

As far as our turnovers, 33 in one year for a -11 is just unacceptable. Too many turnovers. Of the original 12 playoff teams, only one team (Minn) has negative turnover differential.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I'd hire McDaniels too

sucks for us though

 

[dadymat]

Amazing how a decent coordinator can adjust an offense once the starting QB goes down.

i would have liked to see him adjust to having B. Johnson as a back up, having his speed RB go down the same time as his staring QB, and have his #1 WR crying about it in public........not to mention having his HC giving everyone a group hug telling them "itll be OK"


Garrett doesnt have 1/2 the coaching support Josh does