WHY LVE? Someone please convince me!

[erod]

LVE is rumored to have a neck issue, and Evans is an off-the-field risk.

Payne or Bryan.

 

[jday]

I like Evans.. I just don't see a ton of upside with the pick and on top of that he shares Jaylons Smith's skill set.

We don't have a Vander Esch on this roster and really not many teams do.


We play in a division with some amazing TE's too Ertz, Jordan Reed, and Engram.. Covering the middle of the field is a priority and he will get that done.

You can feel free to prefer LVE, but please don't compare Rashaan to Jaylon. They are not the same player at all.

 

[reddyuta]

LVE is rumored to have a neck issue, and Evans is an off-the-field risk.

Payne or Bryan.

I have no problem with either but not at 19.

 

[CATCH17]

What I suppose must people are missing is it's LVE's elite athleticism that is the red flag for me. Guy's with that level of ability facing that level of competition will win more often than not based on their athleticism alone; not technique. That tends to become a problem on the pro level as their athleticism no longer stands out against NFL-level competition. He will no longer be able to take a poor angle to the ball carrier and use his speed to catch up. He will no longer be able to use his strength like he is used to to overpower blockers and get to the ball carrier...he needs technique...something that tends to be difficult to develop on the fly and there is several examples of players who never learned to use good technique.

And we want them to use their 19th pick on that type of gamble? I still don't understand it...

I thought we all learned are lesson from Carson Wentz and we wouldn't knock a guy for his competition.

IF you're talented and a hard worker then you'll do fine in the NFL.

I don't know Vander Esch's work ethic. I knew Carson's. Still.. It's Boise State. IT's not like they are completely off the radar.

 

[Cap12]

For a linebacker, actually a 4.6 40 is elite...not just okay. Outside of that one-armed guy (who looks more like a safety anyway), I'm guessing that's one of the fastest 40's of linebackers this year and most likely the last few years. Top 10 easily.

I have no questions about his physical ability...what I question is what's happening in his head.

He ranks 7th in Dane's top 10 on 40 time.

 

[Cap12]

I thought we all learned are lesson from Carson Wentz and we wouldn't knock a guy for his competition.

IF you're talented and a hard worker then you'll do fine in the NFL.

I don't know Vander Esch's work ethic. I knew Carson's. Still.. It's Boise State. IT's not like they are completely off the radar.

This really not a great comparison. Boise State may not be in a big-time conference but they have been one of the up-and-coming programs in the last couple of decades (and certainly play some tough out of conference opponents). Wentz, on the other hand, came from a FCS school, so folks had the right to a little healthy skepticism.

 

[jday]

I disagree. You take a combination of both.

The draft isn't about drafting the best football player. It's about projecting who the best football players will be at the NFL level.

I think Leighton Vander Esch will be a better player then Evans pretty quick.


We see this all the time. Jared Goff was so much more pro ready then Carson Wentz. Wentz looked far better out the gates then Goff did.



Vander Esch played above average football. Best defender in his conference. He's also an absolute freak.

All signs point high. Buy stock while you can or sell. I'm buying. We have no linebackers and you got a guy with crazy upside who produced.

Derwin and Vander Esch both are what the doctor ordered for this team.

There was a time in my fanship when my beliefs closely aligned with your's presently. I've been burned too many times becoming enamored with 40 times and stats garnered with elite athleticism against lesser-competition that could not compete with their athleticism. I've burned too many times, and I suspect it will take the same for you to change your mind.

 

[Cowboyny]

As does Vita Vea. The difference? What the Cowboys would be asking Vita and Derwin to do is exactly what they've been doing in college. We have tape that shows they can do that. Not so with LVE. The Cowboys would be asking him to get off blocks and sift through traffic to get to the ball carrier. That's not something he has shown an ability to do in college.

What I suppose must people are missing is it's LVE's elite athleticism that is the red flag for me. Guy's with that level of ability facing that level of competition will win more often than not based on their athleticism alone; not technique. That tends to become a problem on the pro level as their athleticism no longer stands out against NFL-level competition. He will no longer be able to take a poor angle to the ball carrier and use his speed to catch up. He will no longer be able to use his strength like he is used to to overpower blockers and get to the ball carrier...he needs technique...something that tends to be difficult to develop on the fly and there is several examples of players who never learned to use good technique.

And we want them to use their 19th pick on that type of gamble? I still don't understand it...

Teams who are drafting Derwin very high are projecting him to play Free Safety. Teams usually don't draft, box strong safeties this day and age with the league become more about stopping the pass.

I understand your reservations about LVE. We have seen him play well in coverage, we just haven't seen Evans do much in that area. Perhaps, his coaches preferred him to rush, but he's more of a projection. He refused to run, which makes that projection even more challenging. I have read that some scouts question his instincts as well, that is the more important attribute you look for at the linebacker position, LVE instincts are suppose to be good, not as good as R. Smith, but high level. Both players are risky, but the drop-off after those two is great at the position. Evans seems to be a better fit as a strong-side linebacker in our system with the ability to drop down and rush the QB on the nickel. LVE is more of a weak-side LB with strong coverage abilities.

 

[CATCH17]

There was a time in my fanship when my beliefs closely aligned with your's presently. I've been burned too many times becoming enamored with 40 times and stats garnered with elite athleticism against lesser-competition that could not compete with their athleticism. I've burned too many times, and I suspect it will take the same for you to change your mind.

I just always go back to Demarcus Ware.

From Troy, workout warrior, late riser... He was getting the KAvika Pittman or whatever busts we drafted at End years before that.

Turns out he was a Hall of Famer.

I'm taking the risk. It's worth it.

I'm not using a 1st rounder on a linebacker that's just solid and sound. I want difference makers and this guy has Urlacher type upside. I'm all in on that.

 

[ThreeandOut]

Evans seems to be a better fit as a strong-side linebacker in our system with the ability to drop down and rush the QB on the nickel. LVE is more of a weak-side LB with strong coverage abilities.

The arguments for drafting s LB at 19 are that we don’t know what we have with Jaylen at MLB and we need insurance if Lee is injured. LVE potentially addresses both of those concerns.

 

[Cap12]

Teams who are drafting Derwin very high are projecting him to play Free Safety. Teams usually don't draft, box strong safeties this day and age with the league become more about stopping the pass.

I understand your reservations about LVE. We have seen him play well in coverage, we just haven't seen Evans do much in that area. Perhaps, his coaches preferred him to rush, but he's more of a projection. He refused to run, which makes that projection even more challenging. I have read that some scouts question his instincts as well, that is the more important attribute you look for at the linebacker position, LVE instincts are suppose to be good, not as good as R. Smith, but high level. Both players are risky, but the drop-off after those two is great at the position. Evans seems to be a better fit as a strong-side linebacker in our system with the ability to drop down and rush the QB on the nickel. LVE is more of a weak-side LB with strong coverage abilities.

Evans might be a little light/small in the middle figuring he comes in at under 6'2 and only about 230. Not exactly ideal measurements for a NFL Mike. LVE outweighs him by about 25 pounds and is more than 2 inches taller.

 

[jday]

I'd love either of these guys, but either won't likely be there at 19. There is no ready-made X to replace Dez, so unless you really want a great Z like Ridley or a less talented but more versatile Moore in an already crowded WR room, I'd rather have Evans or LVE or Daniels or Wynn. Either way, we are getting terrific players who can start right now at positions of need.

You should read the response I responded to...I wasn't trying to say either should be available. He made the point that if I don't like LVE, I must not like Derwin James. I was merely explaining the difference between James/Vita and LVE.

 

[jday]

I just always go back to Demarcus Ware.

From Troy, workout warrior, late riser... He was getting the KAvika Pittman or whatever busts we drafted at End years before that.

Turns out he was a Hall of Famer.

I'm taking the risk. It's worth it.

I'm not using a 1st rounder on a linebacker that's just solid and sound. I want difference makers and this guy has Urlacher type upside. I'm all in on that.

I think the Urlacher comparison's in the end will do LVE a grave disservice.

 

[Verdammung]

For a linebacker, actually a 4.6 40 is elite...not just okay. Outside of that one-armed guy (who looks more like a safety anyway), I'm guessing that's one of the fastest 40's of linebackers this year and most likely the last few years. Top 10 easily.

I have no questions about his physical ability...what I question is what's happening in his head.

Based on the statistical analysis I've done on this, a 256 pound player should run a 4.83.

 

[The Cleaner]

I can give you a bunch of reasons to like LVE. He is instinctive, which is one of the most important traits in a LB. He looks better in that regard on tape, for example, than Roquan Smith. He is an excellent athlete. He is versatile, and can do everything you want a linebacker to do. The only thing he can't do is use his hands and so he will be bad at taking on blocks until he learns how. The thing I like about him the best is that he did not play at his current strength and athleticism. He grew a lot bigger and stronger and faster in preparation for the combine, and the guy you see on tape is not the guy you will see in the pros. In that regard, he reminds me of Tyron Smith, who dropped to us at 9 (in part) because he played at 280 in college (that year was also a loaded draft). I can understand why people might have concerns about drafting him, but I don't understand why anyone would think he can't be very good if he is coached up. It's not like it's impossible to teach a LB how to take on blocks in the pros, the Cowboys just did that with Anthony Hitchens.

 

[morasp]

There's a discussion I watched today about LVE vs Evans that I would post but he had to go and put some cuss words in it. In summary it said the teams like LVE better just a notch below Smith and Edmunds and the fans like Evans better. The analyst sided with the teams and said Evans was a really good blitzing LB and an average run stopper and pass defender with average or below average instincts.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I can't, I don't love him. I think he's a Will and I don't understand why we would draft a Will for a team who has a Will, who drafted a broken player who's best position might end up being Will.

 

[kumizi]

Cowboys (rightly IMO) believe their number one need is LB.

Smith and Edmunds will be gone.

LVE and Evans are the only other LBs remotely rated as 1st round picks.

Evans did not run the 40 yard dash and was not asked to cover people at Alabama. There are very few LBs that can get by in today's NFL without decent pass coverage skills.

LVE is a SPARQ freak and had one year of good production. Ideally you would like two years of production in a better conference. Cowboys did bring him in and maybe liked what he had to say.

So i mean it's really not that difficult to understand why the Cowboys might be interested in LVE.

 

[jday]

Cowboys (rightly IMO) believe their number one need is LB.

Smith and Edmunds will be gone.

LVE and Evans are the only other LBs remotely rated as 1st round picks.

Evans did not run the 40 yard dash and was not asked to cover people at Alabama. There are very few LBs that can get by in today's NFL without decent pass coverage skills.

LVE is a SPARQ freak and had one year of good production. Ideally you would like two years of production in a better conference. Cowboys did bring him in and maybe liked what he had to say.

So i mean it's really not that difficult to understand why the Cowboys might be interested in LVE.

Fair arguments...

But...

It is my personal belief that the Cowboys should be more focused on a linebacker adept at both shedding blocks and exploding to the ball carrier. That is what Evans does best.

For all of LVE's athleticism, his get off just simply doesn't impress me.

Why is this important?

Complimentary football.

The Cowboys run a ball control offense. For that to work and yield the desired results, the defense must in turn control the oppositions run game. If they can't, that makes it anybody's game and luck becomes more of a factor. See all the close games and imagine how easily it could have gone the other way.

The Cowboys need a linebacker who is adept at sifting through traffic and shedding blocks quickly. That is Rashaan. Meanwhile, that is LVE's noted weakness.

If you understand scheme fit, you should understand why LVE is a huge risk.

 

[btcutter]

LVE is rumored to have a neck issue, and Evans is an off-the-field risk.

Payne or Bryan.

Neither. Payne look like Tarzan in 3 games in his entire Alabama career....rest like Jane. Bryan is a liability against the run and run D is our big problem last year.