WHY LVE? Someone please convince me!

superonyx

superonyx

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jday said:
Hmmm. Interesting argument. I've seen this before.

Let's flesh it out, shall we?

People call Rashaan Evans more of a two-down player because he excels against the run and wasn't used as much in coverage at Alabama. Therein is the conclusion I suspect many have leaped to regarding Rashaan; he wasn't used in that capacity therefore he must not be very good at it. Sound about right?

Meanwhile, LVE put up stupid stats both against the run and showed flashes in coverage. Here's the problem: he did all of that exclusively using his elite (especially compared to that level of competition) athleticism. In the pro's, his athleticism while still on par, will not get him very far if he can't get off blocks. As a MLB, he will be next to useless if he can't get off blocks.

So while his ceiling as result of his athleticism may be higher, the leap many fans are asking him to make is truly unreal. If he can't get off blocks against his current level of competition, how in the heck do you expect him to do it in the pro's?

As many times as we Cowboys fans in particular have seen this story play out, it truly boggles my mind that there are actual people whose opinion I respect are actually hoping for this guy at 19. Our teams history is littered with players who were more athlete than football player and were out of the league within 3 years of being drafted...and we want this guy at 19?

I want defense over everything, but I'd rather have Ridley than LVE if for no other reason at least with Ridley we will get some immediate returns on our investment. I'm not seeing it with LVE.
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I don’t know enough about him to make a serious argument. I will say that you may be discrediting his on the field production a bit while chalking him up to just being an athlete. It sounds like you may be saying he is a workout warrior type?

I understand your comparison to Evans and the different schools and competition. However maybe Evans was aided by playing on the best defense in college football. Maybe having elite talent all around him made him look better than he would have looked if he was surrounded by average collegiate talent?

LVE does have 1 year of incredible production. It was incredible in all aspect of the game.

Btw..I’m not sold on either guy. Just offering by unbiased take for what it’s worth....(not much) :)
 
Aven8

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I'm not seeing it. Seems too long and clumsy for me. Maybe that will change when he fills out more, but I doubt it.
 
RoboQB

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jday said:
Oh, I'm absolutely with you there. My dream mock:

1. Vita Vea DT
2. Braden Smith / Austen Corbett OG
3. Anthony Miller WR
4. Genard Avery and Tegray Scales LB (the Cowboys have two picks in the fourth)
5. Akrum Wadley RB
6. PJ Hall DT, Dimitri Flowers FB, Tre Flowers S (3 in the 6th)
7. Daurice Fountain WR (maybe)

So, like I said, I'm absolutely with you. But if they have to take a linebacker at 19, Rashaan Evans over LVE...even if that's still a bit of reach, I don't care, because we all know neither will be there in the second round at 50.
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I'm on board with any mock draft that includes Anthony Miller in the 2nd or 3rd round.
Drafting PJ Hall would be nice to see simply because a CZoner (Furboy, I think) is a close friend of his.
I think I'd choose Corbett in your 2nd round.
 

btcutter

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Cowboyny said:
Teams who are drafting Derwin very high are projecting him to play Free Safety. Teams usually don't draft, box strong safeties this day and age with the league become more about stopping the pass.

I understand your reservations about LVE. We have seen him play well in coverage, we just haven't seen Evans do much in that area. Perhaps, his coaches preferred him to rush, but he's more of a projection. He refused to run, which makes that projection even more challenging. I have read that some scouts question his instincts as well, that is the more important attribute you look for at the linebacker position, LVE instincts are suppose to be good, not as good as R. Smith, but high level. Both players are risky, but the drop-off after those two is great at the position. Evans seems to be a better fit as a strong-side linebacker in our system with the ability to drop down and rush the QB on the nickel. LVE is more of a weak-side LB with strong coverage abilities.
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Good analysis.

You can see LVE literally improve game after game, year after year. As long as his health is good I think he will be a fine player.
Evan is physical and to me he actually doesn't fit Dallas 4-3 as much as a 3-4 inside backer as he lack speed and coverage skill (?) to play Mike in 4-3. Don't despair if Evans flourish in Pitt D because he fits that system.
 
CalPolyTechnique

CalPolyTechnique

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jday said:
Hmmm. Interesting argument. I've seen this before.

Let's flesh it out, shall we?
People call Rashaan Evans more of a two-down player because he excels against the run and wasn't used as much in coverage at Alabama. Therein is the conclusion I suspect many have leaped to regarding Rashaan; he wasn't used in that capacity therefore he must not be very good at it. Sound about right?

Meanwhile, LVE put up stupid stats both against the run and showed flashes in coverage. Here's the problem: he did all of that exclusively using his elite (especially compared to that level of competition) athleticism. In the pro's, his athleticism while still on par, will not get him very far if he can't get off blocks. As a MLB, he will be next to useless if he can't get off blocks.

So while his ceiling as result of his athleticism may be higher, the leap many fans are asking him to make is truly unreal. If he can't get off blocks against his current level of competition, how in the heck do you expect him to do it in the pro's?

As many times as we Cowboys fans in particular have seen this story play out, it truly boggles my mind that there are actual people whose opinion I respect are actually hoping for this guy at 19. Our teams history is littered with players who were more athlete than football player and were out of the league within 3 years of being drafted...and we want this guy at 19?

I want defense over everything, but I'd rather have Ridley than LVE if for no other reason at least with Ridley we will get some immediate returns on our investment. I'm not seeing it with LVE.
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So he uses his athleticism to make plays.......


giphy.gif
 
CalPolyTechnique

CalPolyTechnique

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superonyx said:
I don’t know enough about him to make a serious argument. I will say that you may be discrediting his on the field production a bit while chalking him up to just being an athlete. It sounds like you may be saying he is a workout warrior type?

I understand your comparison to Evans and the different schools and competition. However maybe Evans was aided by playing on the best defense in college football. Maybe having elite talent all around him made him look better than he would have looked if he was surrounded by average collegiate talent?

LVE does have 1 year of incredible production. It was incredible in all aspect of the game.

Btw..I’m not sold on either guy. Just offering by unbiased take for what it’s worth....(not much) :)
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It's a ridiculous argument to make a blanket statement that a player's entire production was based off "his athleticism."

Lol, the draft can't come soon enough.
 
jday

jday

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superonyx said:
I don’t know enough about him to make a serious argument. I will say that you may be discrediting his on the field production a bit while chalking him up to just being an athlete. It sounds like you may be saying he is a workout warrior type?

I understand your comparison to Evans and the different schools and competition. However maybe Evans was aided by playing on the best defense in college football. Maybe having elite talent all around him made him look better than he would have looked if he was surrounded by average collegiate talent?

LVE does have 1 year of incredible production. It was incredible in all aspect of the game.

Btw..I’m not sold on either guy. Just offering by unbiased take for what it’s worth....(not much) :)
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Truth be told, I'm not crazy about either...either.

But if we can't move out of 19 and everyone else on our board is gone, which do you take?

I lean towards the guy that I believe has a better chance of contributing to 3rd and long immediately.
 
Kwmike22

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jday said:
Is it the elite athleticism? Or the otherworldly stats he put up in his one year of starting?

Whatever the reason, all those reasons are reasons I see as buyer beware. He used his athleticism, not technique, to garner all those stats. And in my experience of watching football tells me you never take that guy in the first round because he is going to have to learn to not rely so much on his athleticism.

Furthermore, the guy has clearly struggled getting off of blocks. If he is to be our new Middle Linebacker, that is something he will encounter on almost every play. I have no questions on his ability to get from sideline to sideline and I will grant you he probably adds something in coverage, which will certainly be useful. But if he can't get off NFL blocks (when he struggled to do so against questionable competition), then he, in my opinion, has the highest bust potential of anyone currently being linked to the Cowboys.

Meanwhile, Rashaan Evans has exhibited the ability to get off blocks and explodes to the ball carrier. I suspect his stats are not all that impressive because he has been sharing a field with several other players slotted to go in the first two days (Minkah Fitzpatrick and Daron Payne, for example). He faced better competition and played with better competition to get to the ball. Between he and LVE, he is by far the most pro ready. So why is LVE being viewed as the better option over Rashaan? Can anyone make a logical argument that makes sense to take LVE over Rashaan?
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LVE has a neck issue per WalterFootball.
 
jday

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speedkilz88 said:




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I simply don't trust stats garnered because I guy was one of the strongest and fastest guys on the field. The NFL will instantly take what he does best away...can he adjust. Maybe eventually, but I seriously doubt immediately.

Have you watched him tackle? No bad intentions. No explosion into the ball carrier. No intensity. No passion.

Evans is a dog going after his bone when he tackles. He came out of high school as a DE with passrush moves already so he can stack & shed with the best of them in this draft class.

That, to me, would be more valuable and impactful to the Cowboys.
 
Parcells4Life

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Don’t know how much this plays a factor but this would be 4th Boise defender we’d drafted in 10 years.

DLaw, Crawford and Scandrick. Clearly this team is comfortable with the level of competition. It’s also a good projection of what he’ll be. Solid with a high chance of showing flashes.
 
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