Why Market Price for QB's doesn't necessarily represent pecking order

[Diehardblues]

We continue seeing this argument that some Franchise QB’s simply aren’t worth as much as others. Which in theory should be correct.

We see that Market Price does represent more of a pecking order with other positions .

So why do QB’s who aren’t as great or have as much success as other get paid similar or more than those most would argue are better QB’s.

The short answer is it’s all about when they resign their deal as the Market generally goes up each year with annual Cap increases. But I think there’s even a deeper issue. And it revolves around a few factors .

Supply and Demand . There simply isn’t enough Franchise QB’s to go around . And once you find one you think can build around you want to get him resigned .

The alternatives in general aren’t as easy to build around . First of all you have to go back to the drawing board looking for or drafting and developing another QB with no certainty. Franchise QB also bring stability to these teams, coaching staffs and FO’s.

There is basically 2 types of teams in the NFL. Those looking for a Franchise QB( which doesn’t necessarily mean Elite) and the rest trying to build around one they think can contend or at least be competitive.

Of course the better the QB the easier to build around since Cap hits are going to be similar on contracts after Rookie deal. And the initial reason comes back into play since the rest of those teams looking for a Franchise QB will gladly gobble them up more than willing to pay.

This is why most teams are willing to buckle cause they’d prefer not becoming one of those teams without a Franchise QB. The best exception to the rule is teams which have drafted and developed a potential heir apparent which makes the decision easier if have a QB they already believe can take over.

Occasionally we will see where the best QB’s are the top paid but it’s usually only when their contract is recently signed . In reality there is basically no pecking order anymore for Franchise QB’s as their contracts generally represent the ones who have signed more recently.

This of course is a major problem for some teams trying to build a better team around a QB who arguably isn’t great enough to pay Market Price. But it goes back to the alternatives . The have and have nots which is driving demand and ultimately the market price.

 

[DogFace]

Good point.

 

[Coogiguy03]

I hear you, but in these times QB's having a good season/playoffs can make huge money strapping these teams. I'm not sure what can be done if anything, but is having a franchise qb worth strapping your team from building a championship team?

 

[CWR]

We continue seeing this argument that some Franchise QB’s simply aren’t worth as much as others. Which in theory should be correct.

We see that Market Price does represent more of a pecking order with other positions .

So why do QB’s who aren’t as great or have as much success as other get paid similar or more than those most would argue are better QB’s.

The short answer is it’s all about when they resign their deal as the Market generally goes up each year with annual Cap increases. But I think there’s even a deeper issue. And it revolves around a few factors .

Supply and Demand . There simply isn’t enough Franchise QB’s to go around . And once you find one you think can build around you want to get him resigned .

The alternatives in general aren’t as easy to build around . First of all you have to go back to the drawing board looking for or drafting and developing another QB with no certainty. Franchise QB also bring stability to these teams, coaching staffs and FO’s.

There is basically 2 types of teams in the NFL. Those looking for a Franchise QB( which doesn’t necessarily mean Elite) and the rest trying to build around one they think can contend or at least be competitive.

Of course the better the QB the easier to build around since Cap hits are going to be similar on contracts after Rookie deal. And the initial reason comes back into play since the rest of those teams looking for a Franchise QB will gladly gobble them up more than willing to pay.

This is why most teams are willing to buckle cause they’d prefer not becoming one of those teams without a Franchise QB. The best exception to the rule is teams which have drafted and developed a potential heir apparent which makes the decision easier if have a QB they already believe can take over.

Occasionally we will see where the best QB’s are the top paid but it’s usually only when their contract is recently signed . In reality there is basically no pecking order anymore for Franchise QB’s as their contracts generally represent the ones who have signed more recently.

This of course is a major problem for some teams trying to build a better team around a QB who arguably isn’t great enough to pay Market Price. But it goes back to the alternatives . The have and have nots which is driving demand and ultimately the market price.

Often times the next contract is the highest paid in the league contract, when it comes to qbs.

 

[TwentyOne]

We continue seeing this argument that some Franchise QB’s simply aren’t worth as much as others. Which in theory should be correct.

We see that Market Price does represent more of a pecking order with other positions .

So why do QB’s who aren’t as great or have as much success as other get paid similar or more than those most would argue are better QB’s.

The short answer is it’s all about when they resign their deal as the Market generally goes up each year with annual Cap increases. But I think there’s even a deeper issue. And it revolves around a few factors .

Supply and Demand . There simply isn’t enough Franchise QB’s to go around . And once you find one you think can build around you want to get him resigned .

The alternatives in general aren’t as easy to build around . First of all you have to go back to the drawing board looking for or drafting and developing another QB with no certainty. Franchise QB also bring stability to these teams, coaching staffs and FO’s.

There is basically 2 types of teams in the NFL. Those looking for a Franchise QB( which doesn’t necessarily mean Elite) and the rest trying to build around one they think can contend or at least be competitive.

Of course the better the QB the easier to build around since Cap hits are going to be similar on contracts after Rookie deal. And the initial reason comes back into play since the rest of those teams looking for a Franchise QB will gladly gobble them up more than willing to pay.

This is why most teams are willing to buckle cause they’d prefer not becoming one of those teams without a Franchise QB. The best exception to the rule is teams which have drafted and developed a potential heir apparent which makes the decision easier if have a QB they already believe can take over.

Occasionally we will see where the best QB’s are the top paid but it’s usually only when their contract is recently signed . In reality there is basically no pecking order anymore for Franchise QB’s as their contracts generally represent the ones who have signed more recently.

This of course is a major problem for some teams trying to build a better team around a QB who arguably isn’t great enough to pay Market Price. But it goes back to the alternatives . The have and have nots which is driving demand and ultimately the market price.

Sorry i dont want to offend you. But this is a triviality.

 

[Diehardblues]

I hear you, but in these times QB's having a good season/playoffs can make huge money strapping these teams. I'm not sure what can be done if anything, but is having a franchise qb worth strapping your team from building a championship team?

Apparently so as bringing stability with a more consistent playoff team and Franchise QB is the goal to build around. Winning championships is just gravy.

 

[Jfconrow]

It’s definitely not as easy as drafting one when the starter is up for a new contract. You could swing and miss setting you back 4 or 5 years figuring it out then drafting another one. In the Cowboys case they’ve given Dak almost 10 years. I don’t think it’s his fault they haven’t made it far in the playoffs but at some point you have to say this isn’t working. I think we’re at that point, need a new coach and they’ve got to build up the rest of the team. It’s not a total rebuild, the defense and OL are in good shape.

 

[DallasEast]

We continue seeing this argument that some Franchise QB’s simply aren’t worth as much as others. Which in theory should be correct.

We see that Market Price does represent more of a pecking order with other positions .

So why do QB’s who aren’t as great or have as much success as other get paid similar or more than those most would argue are better QB’s.

The short answer is it’s all about when they resign their deal as the Market generally goes up each year with annual Cap increases. But I think there’s even a deeper issue. And it revolves around a few factors .

Supply and Demand . There simply isn’t enough Franchise QB’s to go around . And once you find one you think can build around you want to get him resigned .

The alternatives in general aren’t as easy to build around . First of all you have to go back to the drawing board looking for or drafting and developing another QB with no certainty. Franchise QB also bring stability to these teams, coaching staffs and FO’s.

There is basically 2 types of teams in the NFL. Those looking for a Franchise QB( which doesn’t necessarily mean Elite) and the rest trying to build around one they think can contend or at least be competitive.

Of course the better the QB the easier to build around since Cap hits are going to be similar on contracts after Rookie deal. And the initial reason comes back into play since the rest of those teams looking for a Franchise QB will gladly gobble them up more than willing to pay.

This is why most teams are willing to buckle cause they’d prefer not becoming one of those teams without a Franchise QB. The best exception to the rule is teams which have drafted and developed a potential heir apparent which makes the decision easier if have a QB they already believe can take over.

Occasionally we will see where the best QB’s are the top paid but it’s usually only when their contract is recently signed . In reality there is basically no pecking order anymore for Franchise QB’s as their contracts generally represent the ones who have signed more recently.

This of course is a major problem for some teams trying to build a better team around a QB who arguably isn’t great enough to pay Market Price. But it goes back to the alternatives . The have and have nots which is driving demand and ultimately the market price.

Good post. Essentially, it is and always has been economics. I have been saying it for years.

The obstacles are merit-based compensation and who assigns value to the player. Those are the two main things some people have the hardest time wrapping their heads around.

Wins and statistics matter but those are merit-based factors which do not weigh as much as some believe. The next consideration is who are the buyers of market are and how many. The buyers are the owners. There can be several owners bidding for a player's services. It can be a single owner.

The exact number of buyers depend on the degree of value they equate to the player being sought after. The number of buyers will always equal zero if a player's value does not measure up to an owner or owners' want or desire.

Demand will always outstrip supply for every position but supply is generally tightest with quarterbacks. Owners will latch on and hold onto those players they believe are 'good enough' or better, far longer than those on the outside looking in, who do not see the same value that the owners do.

 

[Flamma]

Supply and Demand . There simply isn’t enough Franchise QB’s to go around . And once you find one you think can build around you want to get him resigned .

This is the only reason. This is why Daniel Jones and Patrick Mahomes get market value. No other position can command this.

 

[Cowfan75Lives]

Supply and Demand . There simply isn’t enough Franchise QB’s to go around . And once you find one you think can build around you want to get him resigned .

Thing is, this team does not operate like the rest of the NFL. We aren't out for a championship, and we sure as heck aren't looking to build a team around anyone. I don't know what we're doing.

 

[FanofJerry]

Ive recently been enlightened by this board about Jerry.

I think he wants to win if possible....but stability on offense provides better profits.

I highly doubt he leaves his family in a situation where they are losing money because he traded or let Dak walk right before his passing.

I assume they resign Dak for money reasons, hope gives the fans something to watch the team for, and you have hope with Dak compared to many other QB's. Dak's cap hit hurts the chances....but it makes the family money.

I would put money on Jerry wanting stability at QB instead of wasting possibly 3-5 years looking for a QB and the team going 7-10 and losing fans interest.

But...if I am a team that wants to avoid QB market prices and go rookie contracts until I find something...Im going with a running QB that has an arm.

Running QB's give at all levels of the sport problems...peewee, middle school, high school, college.

I get that the NFL is timing driven and OC's like pocket passers. My point is that I am drafting a QB with legs and arm and hoping he can sustain the team until you find a Brady.

If the chances of QB's working out is arguably pretty low, I am going with a guy that has an extra element to frustrate teams until I find my Franchise QB. Im not just going with unathletic pocket passer after pocket passer. Im finding a guy with legs and giving a very short leash to my pocket passers. If you determine in first 6 games this pocket passer isnt Brady, bench him and put the guy with legs in that excite fans.

The theory here is...Its Mahomes/Brady or nothing. You can tell quickly if the guy is handling pressure and will make it or not. Im not drafting a pocket passer and giving him 3 years. Im benching him after 10 games...putting the guy with legs in...and drafting a new pocket passer next draft. Im not making fans sit through trash QB for 2 or 3 seasons if the bar is Mahomes/Brady like the board pushes for. Bench the non-Mahomes/Brady's quickly and have a guy that is exciting with legs to finish out the year as 2nd string.

 

[FanofJerry]

We continue seeing this argument that some Franchise QB’s simply aren’t worth as much as others. Which in theory should be correct.

We see that Market Price does represent more of a pecking order with other positions .

So why do QB’s who aren’t as great or have as much success as other get paid similar or more than those most would argue are better QB’s.

The short answer is it’s all about when they resign their deal as the Market generally goes up each year with annual Cap increases. But I think there’s even a deeper issue. And it revolves around a few factors .

Supply and Demand . There simply isn’t enough Franchise QB’s to go around . And once you find one you think can build around you want to get him resigned .

The alternatives in general aren’t as easy to build around . First of all you have to go back to the drawing board looking for or drafting and developing another QB with no certainty. Franchise QB also bring stability to these teams, coaching staffs and FO’s.

There is basically 2 types of teams in the NFL. Those looking for a Franchise QB( which doesn’t necessarily mean Elite) and the rest trying to build around one they think can contend or at least be competitive.

Of course the better the QB the easier to build around since Cap hits are going to be similar on contracts after Rookie deal. And the initial reason comes back into play since the rest of those teams looking for a Franchise QB will gladly gobble them up more than willing to pay.

This is why most teams are willing to buckle cause they’d prefer not becoming one of those teams without a Franchise QB. The best exception to the rule is teams which have drafted and developed a potential heir apparent which makes the decision easier if have a QB they already believe can take over.

Occasionally we will see where the best QB’s are the top paid but it’s usually only when their contract is recently signed . In reality there is basically no pecking order anymore for Franchise QB’s as their contracts generally represent the ones who have signed more recently.

This of course is a major problem for some teams trying to build a better team around a QB who arguably isn’t great enough to pay Market Price. But it goes back to the alternatives . The have and have nots which is driving demand and ultimately the market price.

Or maybe the owners, who are business first, are taking Jerry's league and want stability at QB and will pay good bus drivers because it gives fan base hope and makes the games worth watching. Trash QB play makes people turn the channel SUPER quick.

The owners prefer money over rings. I think owners with a decent scouting department and GREAT coaching are willing to deviate and give a coach with a plan some down years to turn the team into contenders. But if your Org is average in drafting players and coaching....good bus driver provides better profits, I assume.

Not gonna lie...I think Jerry might be onto something. Stability at QB is so important for profits in this league...and I think owners know this, and will pay for it.

 

[Cowboys5217]

Ive recently been enlightened by this board about Jerry.

I think he wants to win if possible....but stability on offense provides better profits.

I highly doubt he leaves his family in a situation where they are losing money because he traded or let Dak walk right before his passing.

I assume they resign Dak for money reasons, hope gives the fans something to watch the team for, and you have hope with Dak compared to many other QB's. Dak's cap hit hurts the chances....but it makes the family money.

I would put money on Jerry wanting stability at QB instead of wasting possibly 3-5 years looking for a QB and the team going 7-10 and losing fans interest.

But...if I am a team that wants to avoid QB market prices and go rookie contracts until I find something...Im going with a running QB that has an arm.

Running QB's give at all levels of the sport problems...peewee, middle school, high school, college.

I get that the NFL is timing driven and OC's like pocket passers. My point is that I am drafting a QB with legs and arm and hoping he can sustain the team until you find a Brady.

If the chances of QB's working out is arguably pretty low, I am going with a guy that has an extra element to frustrate teams until I find my Franchise QB. Im not just going with unathletic pocket passer after pocket passer. Im finding a guy with legs and giving a very short leash to my pocket passers. If you determine in first 6 games this pocket passer isnt Brady, bench him and put the guy with legs in that excite fans.

The theory here is...Its Mahomes/Brady or nothing. You can tell quickly if the guy is handling pressure and will make it or not. Im not drafting a pocket passer and giving him 3 years. Im benching him after 10 games...putting the guy with legs in...and drafting a new pocket passer next draft. Im not making fans sit through trash QB for 2 or 3 seasons if the bar is Mahomes/Brady like the board pushes for. Bench the non-Mahomes/Brady's quickly and have a guy that is exciting with legs to finish out the year as 2nd string.

Jerry does not to win a SB.

Every off season that does not begin with hiring a proper GM let's you know that the next wasted year of Dallas Cowboys football is locked in.

Until that happens, Jerry is not interested in winning a SB.

 

[FanofJerry]

Jerry does not to win a SB.

Every off season that does not begin with hiring a proper GM let's you know that the next wasted year of Dallas Cowboys football is locked in.

Until that happens, Jerry is not interested in winning a SB.

I get it...

The contracts dont shine him in great light sometime, undermining coaches might look bad sometimes...

But I bet after 30 years in the game that Stephen and Jerry are pretty qualified. 30 years is a long time.

Would never be able to find out...but I would be curios to know how quickly Stephen could get a GM job in the NFL. 30 years is a lot of freaking experience...he's been in this thing since he was a kid.

I dont care about SB drought...Im talking knowledge he could bring to another FO compared with some guy who's been in the business 10-15 years and is young.

But i get it, most here dont like the shots the Jones's call.

 

[Brax]

We continue seeing this argument that some Franchise QB’s simply aren’t worth as much as others. Which in theory should be correct.

We see that Market Price does represent more of a pecking order with other positions .

So why do QB’s who aren’t as great or have as much success as other get paid similar or more than those most would argue are better QB’s.

The short answer is it’s all about when they resign their deal as the Market generally goes up each year with annual Cap increases. But I think there’s even a deeper issue. And it revolves around a few factors .

Supply and Demand . There simply isn’t enough Franchise QB’s to go around . And once you find one you think can build around you want to get him resigned .

The alternatives in general aren’t as easy to build around . First of all you have to go back to the drawing board looking for or drafting and developing another QB with no certainty. Franchise QB also bring stability to these teams, coaching staffs and FO’s.

There is basically 2 types of teams in the NFL. Those looking for a Franchise QB( which doesn’t necessarily mean Elite) and the rest trying to build around one they think can contend or at least be competitive.

Of course the better the QB the easier to build around since Cap hits are going to be similar on contracts after Rookie deal. And the initial reason comes back into play since the rest of those teams looking for a Franchise QB will gladly gobble them up more than willing to pay.

This is why most teams are willing to buckle cause they’d prefer not becoming one of those teams without a Franchise QB. The best exception to the rule is teams which have drafted and developed a potential heir apparent which makes the decision easier if have a QB they already believe can take over.

Occasionally we will see where the best QB’s are the top paid but it’s usually only when their contract is recently signed . In reality there is basically no pecking order anymore for Franchise QB’s as their contracts generally represent the ones who have signed more recently.

This of course is a major problem for some teams trying to build a better team around a QB who arguably isn’t great enough to pay Market Price. But it goes back to the alternatives . The have and have nots which is driving demand and ultimately the market price.

I wonder where KC would be if they kept Alex Smith and just drafted low end projects like the Cowboys do. Yes it’s market price and it doesn’t seem to matter how good the QB is in the top 15 or so it’s market value, and what does this tell us about the league in general, its about winning games to keep fans in the seats and stadiums full, not about winning the SB. It’s sad that so many mediocre QBs can get paid these numbers then folks complain about the quality of the talent or FAs. You pay 3 or 4 guys elite money and they don’t play elite then the team may win some but they aren’t going to where the fans want them to go. The bottom line is over paying for talent that isn’t worth it ends up how the Cowboys have been the last 29 years. Jerry’s happy money comes in and everything else is secondary, Jerry’s motto now is if you get to the dance anytime can happen. Keep paying top dollar for inferior talent, overrate your drafted talent and what do you get, the Dallas Cowboys. Jerry’s as happy as a pig in crap because the team makes the news cycle daily and his team is eons ahead of the rest of the league in the thing that matters most, money.

 

[gtb1943]

I get it...

The contracts dont shine him in great light sometime, undermining coaches might look bad sometimes...

But I bet after 30 years in the game that Stephen and Jerry are pretty qualified. 30 years is a long time.

Would never be able to find out...but I would be curios to know how quickly Stephen could get a GM job in the NFL. 30 years is a lot of freaking experience...he's been in this thing since he was a kid.

I dont care about SB drought...Im talking knowledge he could bring to another FO compared with some guy who's been in the business 10-15 years and is young.

But i get it, most here dont like the shots the Jones's call.

experience does not make up for incompetency
the inability to learn from mistakes
the inability to recognize that change is needed
THIS was proven by how long Ginger was kept around

 

[Diehardblues]

I wonder where KC would be if they kept Alex Smith and just drafted low end projects like the Cowboys do. Yes it’s market price and it doesn’t seem to matter how good the QB is in the top 15 or so it’s market value, and what does this tell us about the league in general, its about winning games to keep fans in the seats and stadiums full, not about winning the SB. It’s sad that so many mediocre QBs can get paid these numbers then folks complain about the quality of the talent or FAs. You pay 3 or 4 guys elite money and they don’t play elite then the team may win some but they aren’t going to where the fans want them to go. The bottom line is over paying for talent that isn’t worth it ends up how the Cowboys have been the last 29 years. Jerry’s happy money comes in and everything else is secondary, Jerry’s motto now is if you get to the dance anytime can happen. Keep paying top dollar for inferior talent, overrate your drafted talent and what do you get, the Dallas Cowboys. Jerry’s as happy as a pig in crap because the team makes the news cycle daily and his team is eons ahead of the rest of the league in the thing that matters most, money.

Yea, fans and media get entirely too wrapped up in winning championships. It definitely makes being a fan more fun.

There’s much to be said about being a contender which is where most teams and individuals strive to be. And that doesn’t mean they aren’t great talents as well.

No doubt having a Franchise QB brings stability and an interesting and entertaining product . And Jethro has proved to be right as much as I hate to admit as there isn’t many bigger critics of our owner.

Just because there’s only 1 SB winner each year that doesn’t mean the rest are losers. Championship teams have to survive by beating some really good teams and talent.

All those championships games and Super bowls we lost during our greatest era was heartbreaking but we still could appreciate being such a stronger contender for such a long time.

There’s definitely something to be said for just getting there and playing at a high level. And why hanging around the rim is the initial goal cause it provides an opportunity to break thru.

And maintaining a Franchise QB certainly provides a greater opportunity to build around which also brings stability . It’s a big part of why they are in such high demand and overpaid .

 

[atlantacowboy]

I agree. Pay Dak and let the chips fall where they may. We won't be able to provide him with a roster of pro-bowl talent around him, but he'll make more money and then we can all celebrate having the highest paid QB in league history. That's what passes for accomplishment in Big D these days.

I don't know about ya'll but watching Dak cash in and make all that money gives me chill bumps.

 

[Diehardblues]

I agree. Pay Dak and let the chips fall where they may. We won't be able to provide him with a roster of pro-bowl talent around him, but he'll make more money and then we can all celebrate having the highest paid QB in league history. That's what passes for accomplishment in Big D these days.

I don't know about ya'll but watching Dak cash in and make all that money gives me chill bumps.

To be fair it’s not like he’d be the highest paid very long. Remember after his Market Price contract in 2021 by 2024 he was 14th highest paid .

This is typical for market price with Franchise QB’s. It’s not a pecking order but simply next man in line to get paid .

I know we don’t have to like it but that’s the reality of NFL business . It is what it is.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Another issue is that everyone has the same money to spend. So teams like LV and NYG and TEN not only don’t have a QB, but they also don’t have the talent around their roster outside of the QB like Dallas does. This means they have even more cap space in nonQB positions than Dallas does that they can redistribute to the QB. So it comes down to a simple “Will overpaying Dak Prescott make us markedly better for the 2025 season and beyond?

And the answer to that is almost certainly a resounding yes, so that is what Dak’s agent brings to the table every time they negotiate. “Give us this much or we’ll get even more than this much next March.” Remember, Kirk Cousins as a FA was in a bidding war between MIN and NYJ, two needy teams at the time. He ended up being paid as the highest paid player in the history organized football, despite never really being a concrete top 10 QB. If Dak is free next offseason, his number is gonna be considerably higher than $60m.