Why Market Price for QB's doesn't necessarily represent pecking order

[glimmerman]

What if all contract negotiations were public knowledge. You as a team make an offer thats blasted all over. Then what the player wants is also known. Would it help.

The last contract for this position was highest paid and he got 20 million.

Let’s see what your head office offers you. Is it 20.5 or do you think he isn’t worth that. Or if they offer him the 20.5. Are you as a player going to let your agent ask for no less than 25. Letting the public know what the team and the player thinks of themselves. Let the cheapness and the greed be known to all.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Im not a Dak fan but because he choked in a playoff game doesn’t necessarily deflate his value except to some frustrated Cowboy fans.

Teams without a Franchise QB as always will be lined up for Prescott or any Franchise QB hitting FA.

He's 2-5 in the playoffs and 0-3 in divisional round games. So, let's not pretend we hadn't seen the GB flop before. He's made a career out of beating up bad teams and padding his numbers. Fact is that against playoff bound teams, he's sub .500 over his career.

The team knows it and that's why he doesn't have the contract he wants.

 

[Diehardblues]

He's 2-5 in the playoffs and 0-3 in divisional round games. So, let's not pretend we hadn't seen the GB flop before. He's made a career out of beating up bad teams and padding his numbers. Fact is that against playoff bound teams, he's sub .500 over his career.

The team knows it and that's why he doesn't have the contract he wants.

We’ll see. Id imagine he’s going to receive 50+ from someone. That’s just the nature of NFL business desperate for a Franchise QB.

Dallas would have already signed him if he wasn’t insistent on resetting the Market Price. And most likely still will.

 

[Diehardblues]

I agree though defining a franchise QB is kinda an opinion. It appears around the league that anyone in the top 10-12 guys get franchise QB money, especially when they are young

I’ve always followed the general consensus defining a Franchise QB as any QB who receives a second contract as starter. Remember Franchise QB doesn’t mean Elite QB.

 

[Diehardblues]

Another issue is that everyone has the same money to spend. So teams like LV and NYG and TEN not only don’t have a QB, but they also don’t have the talent around their roster outside of the QB like Dallas does. This means they have even more cap space in nonQB positions than Dallas does that they can redistribute to the QB. So it comes down to a simple “Will overpaying Dak Prescott make us markedly better for the 2025 season and beyond?

And the answer to that is almost certainly a resounding yes, so that is what Dak’s agent brings to the table every time they negotiate. “Give us this much or we’ll get even more than this much next March.” Remember, Kirk Cousins as a FA was in a bidding war between MIN and NYJ, two needy teams at the time. He ended up being paid as the highest paid player in the history organized football, despite never really being a concrete top 10 QB. If Dak is free next offseason, his number is gonna be considerably higher than $60m.

Yea, Cowboy fans frustration in the playoffs has really blurred their vision on what a Franchise QB represents and the high demand in the NFL.

 

[Diehardblues]

Or maybe the owners, who are business first, are taking Jerry's league and want stability at QB and will pay good bus drivers because it gives fan base hope and makes the games worth watching. Trash QB play makes people turn the channel SUPER quick.

The owners prefer money over rings. I think owners with a decent scouting department and GREAT coaching are willing to deviate and give a coach with a plan some down years to turn the team into contenders. But if your Org is average in drafting players and coaching....good bus driver provides better profits, I assume.

Not gonna lie...I think Jerry might be onto something. Stability at QB is so important for profits in this league...and I think owners know this, and will pay for it.

This actually begun in the NFL before our owners antics.

But yes, stability at QB delivers prosperity even if it doesn’t deliver championships.

Look how successful Dallas and the stability Romo and Dak delivered despite not having more postseason success.

There is something to hanging around the rim and maintaining interest and relevance. We’ve just never had a NFL owner be so blatantly honest about in public.

 

[Diehardblues]

This is the only reason. This is why Daniel Jones and Patrick Mahomes get market value. No other position can command this.

Yep, whether it’s a Daniel Jones, Cousins a few years ago , even Romo back years ago there will continue to be non elite Franchise QB’s over paid Market Value. This is just the nature of business in the NFL.

And yes, no other position allows for the top money going to players who are not top players.

Simply cause of teams desperation to land a QB they think is good enough to build around. Usually a QB who was enough to at least make the playoffs.

This brings so much stability to a franchise . Because there’s basically two types of teams in the NFL. One looking for a Franchise QB and the other trying to build around one best they can.

 

[gtb1943]

I agree that the best definition of a QB a team thinks is a franchise one is a second contract. Or trading serious picks for one.

an Elite QB is one that performs in the playoffs. In crunch time makes plays.
Right now in the NFL you have Mahomes and maybe Rodgers still but that is questionable.
after that Burrows and Allan but borderline because of injuries on one and turnovers on the other
after that? Purdy is kind of a outlier in that he is a bus driver but he has made plays. He is a guy you can win it all with if you have the right team
at this time I can only say for certain there are two QBs in the NFL that have proven they are elite and one might be washed up

 

[gtb1943]

Yep, whether it’s a Daniel Jones, Cousins a few years ago , even Romo back years ago there will continue to be non elite Franchise QB’s over paid Market Value. This is just the nature of business in the NFL.

And yes, no other position allows for the top money going to players who are not top players.

Simply cause of teams desperation to land a QB they think is good enough to build around. Usually a QB who was enough to at least make the playoffs.

This brings so much stability to a franchise . Because there’s basically two types of teams in the NFL. One looking for a Franchise QB and the other trying to build around one best they can.

very much agree. Which is why you see so many flyers taken on QBs in the first rd that really should not happen

 

[Diehardblues]

You don't have a championship team without a franchise QB.

There is very rare exception to that rule . Yes, non Elite or bus drivers need an Elite defense and or must perform Elite on the bigger stages.

But I can only think of Foles who wasn’t a Franchise QB, he was a back up and never received a Franchise QB deal. But he did perform at a higher level in the playoffs.

And years ago Hoestler with NYG filled in for injured Simms with of course another Elite defense . Giants stayed with Simms.

Even some of the bigger bus driving SB Champs like Flacco, Johnston and McMahon all had Franchise QB deals.

 

[Diehardblues]

I agree that the best definition of a QB a team thinks is a franchise one is a second contract. Or trading serious picks for one.

an Elite QB is one that performs in the playoffs. In crunch time makes plays.
Right now in the NFL you have Mahomes and maybe Rodgers still but that is questionable.
after that Burrows and Allan but borderline because of injuries on one and turnovers on the other
after that? Purdy is kind of a outlier in that he is a bus driver but he has made plays. He is a guy you can win it all with if you have the right team
at this time I can only say for certain there are two QBs in the NFL that have proven they are elite and one might be washed up

Generally I’d define Elite QB’s as HOF caliber. Which doesn’t have to be SB Champ.

 

[FanofJerry]

Hanging around the rim seems best for the Org and the fans. Maybe not hard core fans...but fans as a whole. Those Aikman to Romo years were not watchable, and its not guaranteed it wont happen again.

Seems like Dallas is in a position with Parsons, Diggs, Bland, young LB's and Safties, that they MIGHT be in a position to let a bus driving QB go and put a lot of money around Parsons and the defense...and hope your team gets hardware based off of Defense and lucky QB play.

Its over my pay grade if getting rid of Dak, which could be 6-10 more years of stability, is worth it profit wise.

 

[conner01]

I’ve always followed the general consensus defining a Franchise QB as any QB who receives a second contract as starter. Remember Franchise QB doesn’t mean Elite QB.

Exactly. Elite is only a few guys at any position. At some positions I’d only extend an elite player because those positions aren’t hard to get a good player. But half the QB’s in the nfl aren’t really what I’d consider goid, let alone elite. Just getting a good player at QB is really hard

 

[fivetwos]

Yea, fans and media get entirely too wrapped up in winning championships. It definitely makes being a fan more fun.

There’s much to be said about being a contender which is where most teams and individuals strive to be. And that doesn’t mean they aren’t great talents as well.

No doubt having a Franchise QB brings stability and an interesting and entertaining product . And Jethro has proved to be right as much as I hate to admit as there isn’t many bigger critics of our owner.

Just because there’s only 1 SB winner each year that doesn’t mean the rest are losers. Championship teams have to survive by beating some really good teams and talent.

All those championships games and Super bowls we lost during our greatest era was heartbreaking but we still could appreciate being such a stronger contender for such a long time.

There’s definitely something to be said for just getting there and playing at a high level. And why hanging around the rim is the initial goal cause it provides an opportunity to break thru.

And maintaining a Franchise QB certainly provides a greater opportunity to build around which also brings stability . It’s a big part of why they are in such high demand and overpaid .

Fully agree, but it doesn’t seem as if many others do.

There’s a HUGE difference between being good enough to win it all but just getting beat by a couple of plays that didn’t go the right way vs when you were never actually good enough and needed several minor miracles to pull it off.

I think management confuses one with the other and they aren’t as close as they think. They overrate the talent they have and think they can get away with winning now while being smart with the cap for later on.

It’s difficult to complain about no championships. They are tough to get and there are much worse droughts on record….but Dallas hasn’t even come CLOSE in three decades, and to make it monumentally much worse, their best seasons during that time have ended in legendarily heartbreaking playoff losses….and there seems to be one common denominator….the team seems to be unprepared at best, and wildly outschemed at worst. Probably a bit of both.

That comes down to coaching, but Jerry wants what he wants from a HC….not a kind that can outthink the opponent….but someone who will have no problem with being undermined constantly. That ends up being someone who is either happy to have the opportunity or someone with zero experience.

People can blame the flawed Prescott all they like, but the shortcomings of this team start way above him.

 

[Diehardblues]

Fully agree, but it doesn’t seem as if many others do.

There’s a HUGE difference between being good enough to win it all but just getting beat by a couple of plays that didn’t go the right way vs when you were never actually good enough and needed several minor miracles to pull it off.

I think management confuses one with the other and they aren’t as close as they think. They overrate the talent they have and think they can get away with winning now while being smart with the cap for later on.

It’s difficult to complain about no championships. They are tough to get and there are much worse droughts on record….but Dallas hasn’t even come CLOSE in three decades, and to make it monumentally much worse, their best seasons during that time have ended in legendarily heartbreaking playoff losses….and there seems to be one common denominator….the team seems to be unprepared at best, and wildly outschemed at worst. Probably a bit of both.

That comes down to coaching, but Jerry wants what he wants from a HC….not a kind that can outthink the opponent….but someone who will have no problem with being undermined constantly. That ends up being someone who is either happy to have the opportunity or someone with zero experience.

People can blame the flawed Prescott all they like, but the shortcomings of this team start way above him.

I agree. We aren’t as close as they think. Which adds to the disappointment.

 

[Diehardblues]

Exactly. Elite is only a few guys at any position. At some positions I’d only extend an elite player because those positions aren’t hard to get a good player. But half the QB’s in the nfl aren’t really what I’d consider goid, let alone elite. Just getting a good player at QB is really hard

Yep. It’s why they are in such high demand. And enormously over paid.

 

[fivetwos]

I agree. We aren’t as close as they think. Which adds to the disappointment.

Yep, that’s disappointing.

The refusal to change in any sort of meaningful way pushes the needle toward infuriating.

 

[Diehardblues]

Yep, that’s disappointing.

The refusal to change in any sort of meaningful way pushes the needle toward infuriating.

I meant it adds to their disappointment and anyone who thinks our team is better than it actually is.

Those of us who haven’t bought into the hype aren’t as disappointed or surprised they haven’t had more success.

That said we are of course are overall disappointed because we haven’t built a better team and continue to come up short.