Why our OL is so poor

[Risen Star]

The big difference is that then, Jerry had Jimmy to help evaluate the talent. Now, he's either doing it all himself, or relying on lesser mortals. Jimmy Johnson was one of the all-time talent evaluators. We've lost exactly as many games as we've won since the last Super Bowl season. Once Jimmy's picks started getting long in the tooth, Jerry's took over. Enough said.

Jerry didn't have Jimmy to help evaluate the talent. He had Jimmy to evaluate the talent.

 

[Risen Star]

May sound crazy but, w/where we are right now at the "skill" positions, I would be all for a 2013 Draft that focused heavily on the O-line positions, 1st Round through whenever... we make our O-line a thing of major importance. Make the O-line GREAT!... not an afterthought, piecemeal proposition.

Not bustin' chops over taking Claiborne this past Draft... glad we traded up and took him. Our CB corps, and secondary in general, needed upgrading... NEEDED upgrading! Fair enough.

But, sooner rather than later, we need to go ALL-IN with investing in a rock solid O-line, IMO.

I think it's always crazy to dedicate drafts to one area of the team. That's code for drafting for need. You just don't do it.

 

[TwoDeep3]

The issue for me in talent acquisition is this.

We spent past drafts, not the last two but further back where we elected to shop on the cheap.

This caused us to not have talent that would be flowering now but questionable selections from the draft and FA.

This is where we are hurting.

It is the 12 picks in a special teams draft labeled so by Jerry that is hurting us now.

The line is simply an area where we see how much his misjudgment stings.

 

[T-RO]

UDFAs - the same reason we're so poor at Quarterback.

Whoops.

We got lucky with Romo.

But you can't build a team on luck.

 

[Hoofbite]

Of course they aren't. Brandon Carr is a Cornerback.

How predictable.

I almost subscripted with a statement regarding the quality of player at each's respective position but didn't think you'd be this dull.

 

[T-RO]

I think the OP's list needs refinement:


1st rounder Tyron Smith (2011)

4th rounder Doug Free
4th rounder David Arkin

Off-the-Street FA Derrick Dockery
Off-the Street FA Daniel Loper

7th rounder Bill Nagy
7th rounder Mackenzy Bernadeau
UDFA Nate Livings
UDFA Phil Costa
UDFA Harland Gunn
UDFA Ronald Leary

What Loper and Dockery were originally isn't material. At this point they are dumpster dives.

 

[casmith07]

How predictable.

I almost subscripted with a statement regarding the quality of player at each's respective position but didn't think you'd be this dull.

I didn't think that you would be such a tight-*** about it.

 

[TheSport78]

We got lucky with Romo.

But you can't build a team on luck.

Jerry: "Romo was a miracle."

Straight from the horse's mouth.

 

[CowboyChris]

I think the OP's list needs refinement:


1st rounder Tyron Smith (2011)

4th rounder Doug Free
4th rounder David Arkin

Off-the-Street FA Derrick Dockery
Off-the Street FA Daniel Loper

7th rounder Bill Nagy
7th rounder Mackenzy Bernadeau
UDFA Nate Livings
UDFA Phil Costa
UDFA Harland Gunn
UDFA Ronald Leary

What Loper and Dockery were originally isn't material. At this point they are dumpster dives.

those 3 are the projected starters going into the season, now lets see if any of them can stay healthy enough to make it to the Giants game. thats where the concern is.

 

[wittenacious]

I think it's always crazy to dedicate drafts to one area of the team. That's code for drafting for need. You just don't do it.

And you're right. I know that's the truth of things.

Guess my post was more of a "Wish it could work out that way" offering, as opposed to a "We ought to do this NO MATTER WHAT" kinda thing. What I threw out there would be unreasonable to expect, or want.

It won't happen, but I dream there might be a way to make our O-line dominant again — in no uncertain terms — in relative short order... somehow. Just a "want" of mine.

 

[SWG9]

OL's tend not to get drafted in the first round, especially guards. The top talent starts to go 2nd and 3rd round. Comparing 2nd round guards to late rounders and UDFAs is comparing top talent to bottom talent. A 2nd and 3rd round OL *is* a high draft pick for an OL.

If you can't look at the crap on our OL and not see draft failure, then there is no remedy for that kind of failure of clarity. To even offer that draft position does not have a bearing on the expected quality of the offensive line, and that the low quality of our line reflects our lack of commitment to upgrading the position earlier in the draft, is bassackwards.

100% right. Some teams might have the ability to put good OL's together from late round scraps and UDFA's, but Dallas isn't one of those teams and they haven't been for years now.

As far as draft failure goes, here's a list of all of the linemen Dallas has drafted over the last 10 years:

Tyron Smith (1st round)
Andre Gurode (2nd round)
Al Johnson (2nd round)
Jacob Rogers (2nd round)
Stephen Peterman (3rd round)
James Marten (3rd round)
Robert Brewster (3rd round)
Doug Free (4th round)
David Arkin (4th round)
Tyson Walter (6th round)
Sam Young (6th round)
Rob Petitti (6th round)
Justin Bates (7th round)
Pat McQuistan (7th round)
EJ Whitley (7th round)
Bill Nagy (7th round)

16 total linemen, by my (charitable) count at least 10 were total busts. Look at how much worse the quality gets as the draft wears on. The only two certifiably good linemen Dallas has drafted in the last 10 years were 1st and 2nd round picks.

We can sit here and hope Callahan is miracle worker, or we can get serious about this and invest some premium picks in OL starting next year.

 

[jnday]

Jerry: "Romo was a miracle."

Straight from the horse's mouth.

Jerry is looking for several miracles on the line despite knowing that top notch players are hard to come by when they are undrafted free agents. If this type of thinking is not one big gamble, I don't know what is. This gets old supporting a team that refuses to fix a glaring need year after year. This is just stupidity instead of team building. His whole approach to fielding a oline is a joke. I am starting to think Garrett agrees with Jerry in this area, and he should know better.

 

[Risen Star]

100% right. Some teams might have the ability to put good OL's together from late round scraps and UDFA's, but Dallas isn't one of those teams and they haven't been for years now.

As far as draft failure goes, here's a list of all of the linemen Dallas has drafted over the last 10 years:

Tyron Smith (1st round)
Andre Gurode (2nd round)
Al Johnson (2nd round)
Jacob Rogers (2nd round)
Stephen Peterman (3rd round)
James Marten (3rd round)
Robert Brewster (3rd round)
Doug Free (4th round)
David Arkin (4th round)
Tyson Walter (6th round)
Sam Young (6th round)
Rob Petitti (6th round)
Justin Bates (7th round)
Pat McQuistan (7th round)
EJ Whitley (7th round)
Bill Nagy (7th round)

16 total linemen, by my (charitable) count at least 10 were total busts. Look at how much worse the quality gets as the draft wears on. The only two certifiably good linemen Dallas has drafted in the last 10 years were 1st and 2nd round picks.

We can sit here and hope Callahan is miracle worker, or we can get serious about this and invest some premium picks in OL starting next year.

Outstanding.

Those that don't agree will agree when/if the Cowboys decide to do it.

 

[TheSport78]

Jerry is looking for several miracles on the line despite knowing that top notch players are hard to come by when they are undrafted free agents. If this type of thinking is not one big gamble, I don't know what is. This gets old supporting a team that refuses to fix a glaring need year after year. This is just stupidity instead of team building. His whole approach to fielding a oline is a joke. I am starting to think Garrett agrees with Jerry in this area, and he should know better.

I'm with ya. This team will go as far as the OL takes it. I'm not optimistic.

 

[Risen Star]

And you're right. I know that's the truth of things.

Guess my post was more of a "Wish it could work out that way" offering, as opposed to a "We ought to do this NO MATTER WHAT" kinda thing. What I threw out there would be unreasonable to expect, or want.

It won't happen, but I dream there might be a way to make our O-line dominant again — in no uncertain terms — in relative short order... somehow. Just a "want" of mine.

I'm right there with you. It'd be great to see it fall that way. I just don't want us to miss out on Sean Lees and DeMarco Murrays when you see them still around when you're on the clock. At that point you have to scrap your plans and take the talent.

 

[T-RO]

16 total linemen, by my (charitable) count at least 10 were total busts. Look at how much worse the quality gets as the draft wears on. The only two certifiably good linemen Dallas has drafted in the last 10 years were 1st and 2nd round picks.

We can sit here and hope Callahan is miracle worker, or we can get serious about this and invest some premium picks in OL starting next year.

Great post! Every now and then a team gets lucky. But we need stop panning for gold down on the trinity river and invest some higher picks into the position.

 

[nalam]

....
Tyron Smith (1st round)
Andre Gurode (2nd round)
Al Johnson (2nd round)
Jacob Rogers (2nd round)
Stephen Peterman (3rd round)
James Marten (3rd round)
Robert Brewster (3rd round)
Doug Free (4th round)
David Arkin (4th round)
Tyson Walter (6th round)
Sam Young (6th round)
Rob Petitti (6th round)
Justin Bates (7th round)
Pat McQuistan (7th round)
EJ Whitley (7th round)
Bill Nagy (7th round)

16 total linemen, by my (charitable) count at least 10 were total busts. Look at how much worse the quality gets as the draft wears on. The only two certifiably good linemen Dallas has drafted in the last 10 years were 1st and 2nd round picks.
....

Peterman is still active albeit for another team and Doug Free isa 4th rounder. (His play detoriated after paid notwithstanding , he was a good pick)

It is not just drafting the OL, but hitting on the picks too matter. That will only happen if we have a good talent evaluation , the only constant in all these picks is JJ , but I believe Al johnson, Rogers were picked by Parcells, who was supposed to be good evaluator. Go figure !

Alex Baron , remember the tackle we got for carpenter , was a 1st round pick !

Again, I can wholeheartedly agree JJ goes for scintilating picks and not invest high round picks in OL (still picks are hit and miss) , but atleast used to spend money and bring good FAs. But thats also changing. Shortcuts for trenches never work. My hope is there are 31 other teams out there who will be releasing some O-linemen, who we can use.

 

[Zordon]

does anybody know the oline scouts within the organization? do they have positional scouts or is it all regional?

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

wanna know why we have so many issues on the OL. look at the players we have acquired.

1st rounder Tyron Smith (2011)

4th rounder Doug Free
4th rounder David Arkin

3rd rounder Derrick Dockery (2003) too old probably doesnt make it
5th rounder Daniel Loper (2005) too old camp body

7th rounder Bill Nagy
7th rounder Mackenzy Bernadeau
UDFA Nate Livings
UDFA Phil Costa
UDFA Harland Gunn
UDFA Ronald Leary

now i understand that you can find someone in the late rounds or as a udfa but we are basically trying to mold the majority of our line from 7th rounders and UDFA's. not good imo

Fact of life is that O linemen dont rate high in the draft, usually. They are the afterthoughts, the replaceable parts built of fat, muscle and sinew.
O linemen are important. They probably dont sell as many tickets as the RBs, QBs and WRs.

 

[Clove]

Well....in the 90's we had

Nate Newton....who was cut by the Commanders....left the USFL...and signed as a FA with Dallas

John Gesek who was drafted in the tenth round of the 1987

We had Mark Tuinei ....who signed with the Dallas Cowboys in 1983 as a rookie free agent and made the team as a defensive tackle

Kevin Gogan.....who was elected in the eighth round by the Dallas Cowboys in the 1987 NFL Draft

Eric Williams ....who was selected by the Dallas Cowboys in the 3rd round of the 1991 NFL Draft,

and

the pot smoker

Stepnoski, was selected by the Dallas Cowboys in the 3rd round of the 1989 NFL Draft....and retired and became a spokemen to leagalize pot ..(which I just find funny)

Im just sayin........

I guess this goes back to the talent evaluators and developers. Jones, your name pops up YET again.