Will Darren McFadden Return As The Starter?

KJJ

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Meanwhile murray is being paid 8 million to split carries and be a bum in Philly. Lol this is too easy. McFadden 4th in rushing for 2 million over 700 yards 8 million murray

Chip Kelly was the problem he made that decision because he started to realize Murray was a bad fit in his offense and began fazing him out later in the season. Kelly's such an idiot he traded for an injured Sam Bradford who was never productive and he ended up a worse fit in his offense than Nick Foles. He swaps McCoy for Alonzo who did virtually nothing this season. He made some of the worst personnel decisions I've ever seen and it cost him his job and put Philly in a big bind.
 

rpntex

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I brought up the difference in carries earlier in the thread saying the reason Murray got so many carries was because he was producing and the Cowboys weren't having to play from behind nearly as much in 2014. McFadden got far fewer carries because he didn't win the starting job which reduced his carries earlier in the season and the team was getting behind and he wasn't consistent week to week. McFadden didn't produce much in the critical games with most of his production coming when the Cowboys were pretty much done. You obviously haven't been following my discussions I talked about Murray's bad season in Philly and everyone knows it was due to a poor fit in Kelly's offense that ended up getting him fired.

Murray was being fazed out later in the season he only got just over 40 snaps and I'm talking SNAPS not carries in Philly's last few games. The zone scheme didn't fit him but the Cowboys power scheme was a perfect for his skills. The only evidence I need to show that if Murray stayed healthy he would have out produced McFadden in Dallas in 2015 is to go back and review Murray's history with the team. He was producing before our great OL was even built. While it was in transition in 2011 he put up a franchise record 253 yards.

Despite missing 2 games in 2013 he rushed for 1121 yards and 9 TD's. Murray wouldn't have produced another 1800 yards in Dallas but there's no doubt in my mind he could have produced at least 1300 yards and 8-9 TD's with the team and QBs we had in 2015. Even as poor a fit as he was in Philly and with the lack of opportunities he got he still produced 702 yards rushing and 6 TD's which was twice as many TD's as McFadden had. Murray also had more catches and only 6 fewer receiving yards than McFadden.

I wouldn't be so sure about this...not by a long shot. I believe Murray's 2015 in Dallas would have looked a lot like McFadden - if even that good, coming off a 400-touch season in 2014. He would have faced the same defense's McFadden faced - loaded up against the run with absolutely no respect for the passing game.

In my opinion, that's what made mcfaddens season so remarkable. He was running against defense's that KNEW he was getting the ball, and still averaged 4.6 YPC. In 2014, Murray played with a very balanced offense - one that defense's couldn't sell out against the run on - and only averaged 0.1 yard better. Statistical probability and the history of RBs after such heavy-carry seasons tell us that (most likely) Demarco would have struggled in Dallas just as he did in Philadelphia.
 

rpntex

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Ware had injuries issues his last 2 seasons in Dallas but was still on the field playing through them unlike Lee who was missing a lot of games. Had Jerry signed Dez a few years ago which I suggested and waited on Lee to prove he could stay healthy before resigning him he could have gotten Dez much cheaper and would have gotten Lee cheaper because he proceeded to miss the final 5 games of the 2013 season after he resigned.

The decision to move on from Ware and Murray and the decision to stay with Weeden as the backup QB entering the 2015 season all led to where we are today at 4-12. As for Chip Kelly being fired he made a lot of bad decisions moving on from Shady and bringing in players that didn't fit his system is what got him fired. He was trying to shove square pegs into round holes.

That is so misleading...

The fact is that Demarcus Ware missed all or part of 11 games his last two years in Dallas. If by "playing through" those injuries you mean he played a half, then sat out the second half, you'd be correct. But the fact remains that he missed significant playing time.

Comparing what he did in Dallas to what he did in Denver is also disingenuous. He had been rendered largely ineffective in Dallas, mostly from playing DE in a 4-3. His body wasn't holding up. In Denver, he's back in a 3-4. If you want your argument to have any merit at all, you need to acknowledge that.
 

Bullflop

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I really don't actually see McFadden as starting material, despite his 1000-yard season in 2015. I think Dallas may draft another RB within the 1st four rounds in 2016.

If that turns out to be the case, there could easily be an intense competition for the starting RB position next year. Our OL deserves credit for making RBs look great.
 

percyhoward

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Not counting QB kneel downs or garbage time (>2-score margin in last 5:00)

Runs only.

Yards per rush
2015: 4.73 (398 for 1884)
2014: 4.71 (485 for 2283)

outside opp 5-yard line
conversions on 3rd or 4th down, 1-2 yards to go
2015: 16 of 23 (70%)
2014: 19 of 28 (68%)

from 5-yard line or closer
% of runs resulting in TD
2015: 5 of 10 (50%)
2014: 9 of 17 (53%)
 

rpntex

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I really don't actually see McFadden as starting material, despite his 1000-yard season in 2015. I think Dallas may draft another RB within the 1st four rounds in 2016.

If that turns out to be the case, there could easily be an intense competition for the starting RB position next year. Our OL deserves credit for making RBs look great.

I semi-agree with you on a couple of points. I personally see McFadden as starter material, though not necessarily "bell cow" material. I think he'd be very effective with 15-20 touches per game, but I'd be afraid how well his body would hold up with more than that. With that in mind, I think we'll see a RB taken in the first four rounds as well. If Dallas somehow manages to take Zeke, then he becomes the bell cow from the get-go. If Dallas drafts any other back, I think we see the committee approach again.
 

MichaelWinicki

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Not counting QB kneel downs or garbage time (>2-score margin in last 5:00)

Runs only.

Yards per rush
2015: 4.73 (398 for 1884)
2014: 4.71 (485 for 2283)

outside opp 5-yard line
conversions on 3rd or 4th down, 1-2 yards to go
2015: 16 of 23 (70%)
2014: 19 of 28 (68%)

from 5-yard line or closer
% of runs resulting in TD
2015: 5 of 10 (50%)
2014: 9 of 17 (53%)

As normal Percy, you continue to show how good the running game was in 2015 despite the utter failure of the passing offense to instill any sort of "fear" in any defense.

Nor do I see how Murray would have given the Cowboys more than what McFadden did in 2015.
 

kevm3

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Having McFadden be the lead back going into 2016 is a waste of that Dallas O line. He played very solid, but he should be the backup. You get top notch young talent or you bring someone in. Comparing Dallas McFadden to Philly Murray is unfair... about as fair as comparing Dallas Murray to Oakland McFadden. Should we pay a ton of money and bring Murray back? No... but you make moves to improve the RB position.
 

MichaelWinicki

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The folks that rip McFadden and post that he is "Not a lead back" seem to offer nothing of substance to support their case that he is not a lead back.

All we get is conjecture and "I think".

If someone posts, "Well I'm be leery of having McFadden as the lead back in 2016 because of his health history" well I can respect that. And I may even agree that I would like to see two, starting quality backs on the roster.

But to simply say the guy isn't a lead back because I don't "feel" he is... Weak.
 

kevm3

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1. McFadden was outplayed by Randle. If Randle doesn't go insane, McFadden would be a backup. Two, McFadden has a history of injury. He was healthy this year, just as Murray was healthy for the first time in his contract year. Three, given the immense jump in performance from going to Oakland to coming here, there is no reason to believe that if we draft a top notch runningback, that they won't bring more to the table running behind our O-line. Four, McFadden's running style isn't what brought us immense success in 2014. McFadden is a finesse runner. He may get 5 to 10 yards, but then he's going for -2. Murray was almost never going backwards here and he was nearly automatic on 3rd downs and on the goal line. McFadden is not. Stats don't tell the whole story. If they did, Weeden would still be here.

We let Murray go because we didn't believe he could have similar performance another year after the insane amount of carries he had and his injury history. Why should we believe the same of McFadden, who also has a history of injuries? We didn't get success in 2014 with finesse running. We got it through power running, and the more finesseful runners in Randle and Dunbar, got the remaining carries after that. It's no surprise our offense looked completely different in 2015 and that's with Romo in the game.
 

KJJ

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That is so misleading...

The fact is that Demarcus Ware missed all or part of 11 games his last two years in Dallas. If by "playing through" those injuries you mean he played a half, then sat out the second half, you'd be correct. But the fact remains that he missed significant playing time.

Comparing what he did in Dallas to what he did in Denver is also disingenuous. He had been rendered largely ineffective in Dallas, mostly from playing DE in a 4-3. His body wasn't holding up. In Denver, he's back in a 3-4. If you want your argument to have any merit at all, you need to acknowledge that.

Ware started all 16 games in 2012 with 11.5 sacks and 5 forced fumbles. His final season with the Cowboys in 2013 he got off to one of the best starts of his career with 4 sacks and an INT in the first 3 games then suffered a leg injury that hampered him all season. Due to having one of the worst defenses statistically in NFL history that season we couldn't afford to take Ware off the field and spell him and the injury nagged him forcing him to miss 3 games. He attempted to play though the injury in 10 games but it limited his effectiveness and soured the FAN base on him. Many here claimed he was washed up check the archives. Since he's left Dallas our sacks and pressures have gone down and not having a great pass rusher helped get us knocked out of the playoffs in 2014. We only had 27 sacks in 2014 compared to 34 sacks in 2013 with Ware. We had 31 sacks this season. The Cowboys never had worse than 34 sacks in a season while Ware was in Dallas. In the 2 years Ware has been gone he's had 17.5 regular season sacks more than any defensive player we've had over that period and he had 3.5 sacks in the playoffs this season including 2 in the Super Bowl.

Sacks lead to fumbles and pressures lead to picks and Ware has provided both for Denver. The Cowboys keep changing DC's and schemes searching for answers but every year we see the same damn issues that continue to plague the defense. It was a bad move to go away from a scheme that fit Ware making him less effective reducing our sacks and pressures. We don't get INT's because of the lack of pressure. The Cowboys were the worst defense in the league at forcing turnovers this past season. This FAN base is so screwed up they tore down the games of Murray and Ware once they left saying good riddance and propped up McFadden and Hardy as some sort of Godsends when they arrived. LOL

We saw appreciation threads for both players despite the miserable season we were having while the same FANS were tearing into Murray for not having more than 1845 yards during a 12-4 season that saw a division title and a playoff win. FANS were still stuck in 2007 posting video's of McFadden running wild at Arkansas with some claiming he would be an upgrade due to the speed he no longer has. While Murray was getting bashed Ware was getting dumped on for not making impact plays or having leadership. Many complained he's too nice and has dimples and that a mean, nasty guy like Hardy will take our defense to another level. LOL

Ware had a HOF career in Dallas he was a GREAT player! He was the only player we had on defense that put fear anyone but he had holes all around him we could never plug and we could never find a solid pass rushing compliment opposite him. Spencer was never consistent which is why the Cowboys resisted extending him. Ware was a diamond amongst trash and since he's left our pass rush has struggled and we're not getting turnovers. In Denver he doesn't have to play every snap due to all the talent that's around him which has kept him fresh and very effective even while battling an injury this season.
 

percyhoward

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As normal Percy, you continue to show how good the running game was in 2015 despite the utter failure of the passing offense to instill any sort of "fear" in any defense.
The truth is, all things considered, it was actually better. It sounds ridiculous because of the 4-12 record, but that's how little impact things like rushing yards, YPC, TOP, and short-yardage runs have on W-L.

5 of the top 10 rushing teams didn't make the playoffs.
1 Buf
2 Car
3 Sea
4 Min

5 TB
6 KC
7 StL
8 Ari
9 Dal
10 NYJ

5 of the top 10 YPC teams didn't make the playoffs.
1 Buf
2 TB
3 Min
4 KC

5 StL
6 Dal
7 Sea
8 Pit
9 Car

10 Mia

5 of the top 10 TOP offenses didn't make the playoffs.
1 Atl
2 Sea
3 Dal
4 Min
5 SD
6 Was
7 Ari
8 Cin

9 NO
10 Chi

7 of the top 10 short yardage/goal line running teams didn't make the playoffs.
1 Phi
2 Car
2 Min

4 Chi
5 NO
6 SD
7 Oak
8 TB
8 Sea
10 Buf

In contrast, the top 6 in passer rating differential were all playoff teams.
1 Car
2 Sea
3 Ari
4 NE
5 KC
6 Cin

7 NYJ
8 Pit
9 Buf
10 Min
 

KJJ

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I wouldn't be so sure about this...not by a long shot. I believe Murray's 2015 in Dallas would have looked a lot like McFadden - if even that good, coming off a 400-touch season in 2014. He would have faced the same defense's McFadden faced - loaded up against the run with absolutely no respect for the passing game.

In my opinion, that's what made mcfaddens season so remarkable. He was running against defense's that KNEW he was getting the ball, and still averaged 4.6 YPC. In 2014, Murray played with a very balanced offense - one that defense's couldn't sell out against the run on - and only averaged 0.1 yard better. Statistical probability and the history of RBs after such heavy-carry seasons tell us that (most likely) Demarco would have struggled in Dallas just as he did in Philadelphia.

You can believe what you want but Murray would have started from day one health permitting he was fully entrenched as our starter. McFadden lost out to Randle as the starter and only got the opportunity to start due to Randle's injury and release. Adrian Peterson has faced defenses his entire career bent on stopping him and they can't despite the Vikings having a poor QB situation through most of his career. He put up almost 2100 yards despite Ponder putting up less than 3000 yards passing and only 18 TD's. You put a talented back behind the best OL in the league that had 3 pro bowlers this season and they'll gain 1500+ and I don't care how bad your QB situation is. Todd Gurley produced more yards and TD's as rookie than McFadden did this season despite his QB situation and missing 3 games.

Go back and read some of the excuses FANS gave as to why McFadden only avenged 3.3 a carry his last 3 seasons in Oakland. They put it all on his OL including his injuries. Even with Romo on the field the entire game in the opener McFadden averaged only 2.7 a carry on 6 carries. The Cowboys went away from him because he could barely get past the line of scrimmage. Despite Romo playing just over a half vs Philly in week 2 and Weeden lighting it up in relief McFadden only averaged 3.1 a carry on 10 carries so don't give me this crap our QB situation hindered his production this season.

The fact that you're calling McFadden's 1089 yard 3 TD season "remarkable" shows just how average he is. As for Murray no way does he struggle in Dallas like he did in Philly that's ridiculous. Even despite missing a game and playing in an offense that didn't fit him he still gained just over 700 yards and 6 TD's. He only received 19 carries the final 3 games. He was completely misused and still had more catches and scored twice as many TD's as McFadden.
 

Nightman

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The folks that rip McFadden and post that he is "Not a lead back" seem to offer nothing of substance to support their case that he is not a lead back.

All we get is conjecture and "I think".

If someone posts, "Well I'm be leery of having McFadden as the lead back in 2016 because of his health history" well I can respect that. And I may even agree that I would like to see two, starting quality backs on the roster.

But to simply say the guy isn't a lead back because I don't "feel" he is... Weak.

That is a strawman if I ever saw one.

People have made dozens of well founded arguments against McFadden based on stats, present and past.

You and Percy just like to pick and choose which stats to look at. That insures you will get any result you desire,

Fact is we went 12-4 with Murray getting 1850 yds and 13 TDs
We went 4-12 with McFadden getting 1090 yds and 3 TDs

and you guys desperately want to say McFadden's year was in the same ballpark as Murray's. He finished 760 yds and 10 TDs behind Murray. That difference in yards would have finished 19th in rushing and would have probably made the Pro Bowl(which somehow McFadden didn't).
 

percyhoward

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You and Percy just like to pick and choose which stats to look at. That insures you will get any result you desire,

Fact is we went 12-4 with Murray getting 1850 yds and 13 TDs
We went 4-12 with McFadden getting 1090 yds and 3 TDs

and you guys desperately want to say McFadden's year was in the same ballpark as Murray's. He finished 760 yds and 10 TDs behind Murray. That difference in yards would have finished 19th in rushing and would have probably made the Pro Bowl(which somehow McFadden didn't).
For this to make any sense at all, you would have to completely ignore

1) the defenses that each RB faced because of the fact that our passing game went from 1st to 30th

and

2) a simple concept called proficiency, which accounts for more carries equaling more yards.

In order to have a leg to stand on, you'd have to treat those two things as if they didn't exist.
 

MichaelWinicki

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That is a strawman if I ever saw one.

People have made dozens of well founded arguments against McFadden based on stats, present and past.

You and Percy just like to pick and choose which stats to look at. That insures you will get any result you desire,

Fact is we went 12-4 with Murray getting 1850 yds and 13 TDs
We went 4-12 with McFadden getting 1090 yds and 3 TDs

and you guys desperately want to say McFadden's year was in the same ballpark as Murray's. He finished 760 yds and 10 TDs behind Murray. That difference in yards would have finished 19th in rushing and would have probably made the Pro Bowl(which somehow McFadden didn't).

Yeah, it was all due to Murray that the team went 12-4 and it was due to McFadden the team went 4-12.

Yeah.
 

MichaelWinicki

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For this to make any sense at all, you would have to completely ignore

1) the defenses that each RB faced because of the fact that our passing game went from 1st to 30th

and

2) a simple concept called proficiency, which accounts for more carries equaling more yards.

In order to have a leg to stand on, you'd have to treat those two things as if th
I think by the natives, you're referring to two people. The last two of the Mohicans.


Or is it the "Last of the Murray's".
 
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