Will Darren McFadden Return As The Starter?

Nightman

Capologist
Messages
27,121
Reaction score
24,038
Or is it the "Last of the Murray's".

I think by the natives, you're referring to two people. The last two of the Mohicans.


It isn't even about Murray any more.

They decision to intentionally get much worse at RB was made last year.

The decision to stay mediocre seems OK to you. I want to use our prized OL and actually turn a strength back into a strength instead of saving a few bucks.

But JJones loves your naivete and loyalty. "Thank you sir may I have another".
 

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind
Messages
62,177
Reaction score
39,427
The folks that rip McFadden and post that he is "Not a lead back" seem to offer nothing of substance to support their case that he is not a lead back.

McFadden's last 3 seasons in Oakland he averaged only 3.3 a carry which was the lowest in the league over that period for a back not named Trent Richardson. The Raiders had finally seen enough in 2014 and relegated him to backup duty the final 3 games. Most of the NFL experts felt McFadden was no longer a starting caliber back and would be better suited as a backup as part of a rotation.

He was beaten out by Randle this past summer and Garrett said the plan was to have McFadden as their short yardage back. He only became the starter due to Randle's injury and release. In half the games he played in he averaged under 4.0 a carry this past season I think that's plenty to support he's not a lead back.
 

MichaelWinicki

"You want some?"
Staff member
Messages
47,997
Reaction score
27,917
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Mcfadden's last 3 seasons in Oakland he averaged only 3.3 a carry which was the lowest in the league over that period for a back not named Trent Richardson. The Raiders had finally seen enough in 2014 and relegated him to backup duty the final 3 games. Most of the NFL experts felt McFadden was no longer a starting caliber back and would be better suited as a backup as part of a rotation. He was beaten out by Randle this past summer and Garrett said the plan was to have McFadden as their short yardage back. He only became the starter due to Randle's injury and release. In half the games he played in he averaged under 4.0 a carry this past season I think that's plenty to support he's not a lead back.

The last three seasons didn't include last season.

We'll see how it spins out in 2016.
 

Nightman

Capologist
Messages
27,121
Reaction score
24,038
The last three seasons didn't include last season.

We'll see how it spins out in 2016.

McFadden's 1089 yds and 4th place finish would not have been Top 10 in 2014 or 2013.

So many other better RBs got injured. It just means for once in his career he was able to stay healthy.
 

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind
Messages
62,177
Reaction score
39,427
The last three seasons didn't include last season.

We'll see how it spins out in 2016.

Last season he received a "career high" in carries playing in all 16 games for one of the few times in his career and rushed for less yards and TD's than he did in Oakland in 2010 despite playing in only 13 games that season and playing behind a much lesser OL. I'll ask you the same question I've asked several others who've refused to provide an answer. It's a very straightforward question would you be satisfied if McFadden as the "starter" produces the same exact rushing yards and TD's in 2016 that he did in 2015?
 

MichaelWinicki

"You want some?"
Staff member
Messages
47,997
Reaction score
27,917
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
McFadden's 1089 yds and 4th place finish would not have been Top 10 in 2014 or 2013.

So many other better RBs got injured. It just means for once in his career he was able to stay healthy.

2013 and 2014 are what they are... they aren't 2015.

For that matter Murray's 2015 was far different from his 2014.

I've never said I wanted McFadden to be a 200+ carry guy in 2016.

But I'm perfectly happy to have him be a 10-carry per game guy. 160 carries. 4.5 ypc average. I'm just fine with that.
 

MichaelWinicki

"You want some?"
Staff member
Messages
47,997
Reaction score
27,917
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Last season he received a "career high" in carries staying healthy for one of the few seasons in his career and rushed for less yards and TD's than he did in Oakland in 2010 despite missing 3 games that season and playing behind a much lesser OL. I'll ask you the same question I've asked several others who've refused to provide an answer. It's a very straightforward question would you be satisfied if McFadden as the "starter" produces the same exact rushing yards and TD's in 2016 that he did in 2015?

Based on the same number of carries I'd be thrilled with a 4.6 ypc average.

I don't get hung up on TD's because that's a much a factor of how efficient the offense is overall.
 

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind
Messages
62,177
Reaction score
39,427
Based on the same number of carries I'd be thrilled with a 4.6 ypc average.

I don't get hung up on TD's because that's a much a factor of how efficient the offense is overall.

So you're saying you'll be thrilled if he duplicates his 2015 season in 2016. You should get hung up on TD's most of the top backs produce double digit TD's which puts points on the board and takes pressure off their QB. Although McFadden was 4th in rushing this past season the top 3 rushers all scored more TD's than he did. Even the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th leader rushers scored more TD's than McFadden. If you can't run the ball in for scores it's on the shoulders of your QB to throw TD's or you'll be stuck kicking a lot of FG's like the Cowboys did in 2015. McFadden's 4.6 rushing average was misleading because that average was padded due to his last 4 games where he averaged 12.3 vs Green Bay due to a 50 yard run.

He averaged 6.3 vs the Jets due to a 33 yard run. He averaged 5.2 vs Buffalo due to a 28 yard run and 7.7 vs Washington in the season finale due to a 30 yard run. Despite those averages the Cowboys lost all 4 of those games. If you take McFadden's long runs out he didn't average much on the rest of his carries and they weren't moving the chains on 3rd down. All the Cowboys did was play out the schedule the final 4 games. Green Bay was the only team that had anything to play for during our final 4 games and everyone else just packed it in. When the games still mattered for the Cowboys McFadden only had 3 good games and only scored one TD leading to 1-2 in those games. Murray's yards in 2014 moved the chains, scored TD's, led to wins and kept Romo on the field for 17 games.
 

MichaelWinicki

"You want some?"
Staff member
Messages
47,997
Reaction score
27,917
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
So you're saying you'll be thrilled if he duplicates his 2015 season in 2016. You should get hung up on TD's most of the top backs produce double digit TD's which puts points on the board and takes pressure off their QB. Although McFadden was 4th in rushing this past season the top 3 rushers all scored more TD's than he did. Even the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th leader rushers scored more TD's than McFadden. If you can't run the ball in for scores it's on the shoulders of your QB to throw TD's or you'll be stuck kicking a lot of FG's like the Cowboys did in 2015. McFadden's 4.6 rushing average was misleading because that average was padded due to his last 4 games where he averaged 12.3 vs Green Bay due to a 50 yard run.

He averaged 6.3 vs the Jets due to a 33 yard run. He averaged 5.2 vs Buffalo due to a 28 yard run and 7.7 vs Washington in the season finale due to a 30 yard run. Despite those averages the Cowboys lost all 4 of those games. If you take McFadden's long runs out he didn't average much on the rest of his carries and they weren't moving the chains on 3rd down. All the Cowboys did was play out the schedule the final 4 games. Green Bay was the only team that had anything to play for during our final 4 games and everyone else just packed it in. When the games still mattered for the Cowboys McFadden only had 3 good games and only scored one TD leading to 1-2 in those games. Murray's yards in 2014 moved the chains, scored TD's, led to wins and kept Romo on the field for 17 games.

Most top backs have or had better quarterbacking and a more efficient passing offense to work with... a passing offense that gave the back and the team more chances for rushing touchdowns.
 

ghst187

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,722
Reaction score
11,572
DMC is okay, but we aren't getting to the next level with him as the lead back. Either need Miller in FA or a good rookie, Romo needs the pressure to be taken off of him as does the defense and crummy game management.
 

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind
Messages
62,177
Reaction score
39,427
Most top backs have or had better quarterbacking and a more efficient passing offense to work with... a passing offense that gave the back and the team more chances for rushing touchdowns.

I've already covered that multiple times with examples of backs who were very productive with an inefficient passing offense. This topic has been exhausted.
 

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind
Messages
62,177
Reaction score
39,427
Yes you have.

But it doesn't mean you've achieved "buy-in" from me. :)

Not trying to get you to buy in and trust me the Cowboys will attempt to find an upgrade over McFadden or they'll continue having a Raiders type season every year. Not trying to pin the season on him but you're not going to build a great team with average players having starting roles at key positions.
 

MichaelWinicki

"You want some?"
Staff member
Messages
47,997
Reaction score
27,917
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Not trying to get you to buy in and trust me the Cowboys will attempt to find an upgrade over McFadden or they'll continue having a Raiders type season every year. Not trying to pin the season on him but you're not going to build a great team with average players having starting roles at key positions.

I believe the Cowboys will bring another back to compete.
 

rpntex

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,470
Reaction score
1,042
You can believe what you want but Murray would have started from day one health permitting he was fully entrenched as our starter. McFadden lost out to Randle as the starter and only got the opportunity to start due to Randle's injury and release. Adrian Peterson has faced defenses his entire career bent on stopping him and they can't despite the Vikings having a poor QB situation through most of his career. He put up almost 2100 yards despite Ponder putting up less than 3000 yards passing and only 18 TD's. You put a talented back behind the best OL in the league that had 3 pro bowlers this season and they'll gain 1500+ and I don't care how bad your QB situation is. Todd Gurley produced more yards and TD's as rookie than McFadden did this season despite his QB situation and missing 3 games.

Go back and read some of the excuses FANS gave as to why McFadden only avenged 3.3 a carry his last 3 seasons in Oakland. They put it all on his OL including his injuries. Even with Romo on the field the entire game in the opener McFadden averaged only 2.7 a carry on 6 carries. The Cowboys went away from him because he could barely get past the line of scrimmage. Despite Romo playing just over a half vs Philly in week 2 and Weeden lighting it up in relief McFadden only averaged 3.1 a carry on 10 carries so don't give me this crap our QB situation hindered his production this season.

The fact that you're calling McFadden's 1089 yard 3 TD season "remarkable" shows just how average he is. As for Murray no way does he struggle in Dallas like he did in Philly that's ridiculous. Even despite missing a game and playing in an offense that didn't fit him he still gained just over 700 yards and 6 TD's. He only received 19 carries the final 3 games. He was completely misused and still had more catches and scored twice as many TD's as McFadden.

Murray hit a wall toward the end of last year. His average YPC for the last six games (Inc.playoffs) was 4.0, as opposed to 4.9 for the first 12 games. AND, that last six-game average was skewed by two big games. The other four, however, he averagd less than 4.0, and in three of those games he averaged less than 3 YPC. That's every bit as relevant to the discussion as the YPC numbers you're throwing out there about McFadden.

You're obviously basing your guesses (and that's all they are, after all - same for mine) on the Murray and McFadden of 2014. Well, neither was the same back in 2015 as they were last year. McFadden, for the first time in his career, stayed healthy all season. Murray obviously is a step slower and less durable than he was last season. It's NOT just Chip Kelly's offense that held Murray back this year.

One other thing...McFadden didn't "lose out" to Randle for the starter's job. Randle was the implied starter as soon as Murray signed with Philly. McFadden was relegated to the backup role from the day he was signed as well, and thus was only going to 5-7 carries per game. His lack of production was understandable, but once the job was his, he ran like a different back.

And yes, McFadden's season was remarkable in light of all the challenges the offense faced. Well, guess what,...I'd be saying that about any back that put up 1100 yards in 11 games (as a starter), running in an offense with no passing game.
 

rpntex

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,470
Reaction score
1,042
Ware started all 16 games in 2012 with 11.5 sacks and 5 forced fumbles. His final season with the Cowboys in 2013 he got off to one of the best starts of his career with 4 sacks and an INT in the first 3 games then suffered a leg injury that hampered him all season. Due to having one of the worst defenses statistically in NFL history that season we couldn't afford to take Ware off the field and spell him and the injury nagged him forcing him to miss 3 games. He attempted to play though the injury in 10 games but it limited his effectiveness and soured the FAN base on him. Many here claimed he was washed up check the archives. Since he's left Dallas our sacks and pressures have gone down and not having a great pass rusher helped get us knocked out of the playoffs in 2014. We only had 27 sacks in 2014 compared to 34 sacks in 2013 with Ware. We had 31 sacks this season. The Cowboys never had worse than 34 sacks in a season while Ware was in Dallas. In the 2 years Ware has been gone he's had 17.5 regular season sacks more than any defensive player we've had over that period and he had 3.5 sacks in the playoffs this season including 2 in the Super Bowl.

Sacks lead to fumbles and pressures lead to picks and Ware has provided both for Denver. The Cowboys keep changing DC's and schemes searching for answers but every year we see the same damn issues that continue to plague the defense. It was a bad move to go away from a scheme that fit Ware making him less effective reducing our sacks and pressures. We don't get INT's because of the lack of pressure. The Cowboys were the worst defense in the league at forcing turnovers this past season. This FAN base is so screwed up they tore down the games of Murray and Ware once they left saying good riddance and propped up McFadden and Hardy as some sort of Godsends when they arrived. LOL

We saw appreciation threads for both players despite the miserable season we were having while the same FANS were tearing into Murray for not having more than 1845 yards during a 12-4 season that saw a division title and a playoff win. FANS were still stuck in 2007 posting video's of McFadden running wild at Arkansas with some claiming he would be an upgrade due to the speed he no longer has. While Murray was getting bashed Ware was getting dumped on for not making impact plays or having leadership. Many complained he's too nice and has dimples and that a mean, nasty guy like Hardy will take our defense to another level. LOL

Ware had a HOF career in Dallas he was a GREAT player! He was the only player we had on defense that put fear anyone but he had holes all around him we could never plug and we could never find a solid pass rushing compliment opposite him. Spencer was never consistent which is why the Cowboys resisted extending him. Ware was a diamond amongst trash and since he's left our pass rush has struggled and we're not getting turnovers. In Denver he doesn't have to play every snap due to all the talent that's around him which has kept him fresh and very effective even while battling an injury this season.

You'll get no argument from me about Ware's greatness as a Cowboy, so you can stop putting words in other people's mouths.

Once again, however, you're being disingenuous when you compare his 17.5 sacks in n Denver to the lack a f sacks Dallas has registered during that same time period. Ware is playing in a 3-4 in Denver, a defense in which he's naturally suited to play. As a 4-3 DE, Ware as nowhere near as effective. Put him back in Dallas' 4-3, and he doesn't sniff 17,5 sacks.
 
Top