will deion sanders and moose be HOFers?

[jobberone]

It's unfortunate for Moose that the HOF doesn't separate the the running back qualifications into what they want to see from Halfbacks and, and a different criteria for Fullbacks.

If the ingredients for inductions focused more on how much the two positions are unique is how they play, what they're expected to accomplish, and the value they bring to a team, then Moose is in the top 5 who ever played the game. Sadly, both are lumped into "running backs", and that eliminates a lot of great fullbacks from consideration.

Tight Ends are the closest thing to this problem. Tight Ends are also not represented well in the HOF. They're looked upon as "recievers" too much, and in no way can compete with Wide Recievers, who catch a lot of balls, but don't participate in the game anywhere near the responsibilities of Tight Ends. Not even close.

The Tight Ends in the HOF are as follows:
Dave Casper
John Mackey
Mike Ditka
Ozzie Newsome
Charlie Sanders
Jackie Smith
Kellen Winslow

Thats it. Look at the names, and you'll see that unless you're a featured "reciever" as a tight end, you don't get in the HOF. Not saying that actually catching the ball isn't a function of the Tight Ends, but they do a heck of lot more than catch balls as the position requires of them.

It's not even worth the time to list the Wide Recievers in the HOF. It's so large, I'd bore you with the listing, but it's a 3-1 ratio.

The current list of Fullbacks in the HOF are:
Jim Brown
Larry Csonka
Marion Motley
Joe Perry
Jim Taylor
(And,from the "pre-modern" era: Charlie Hinkle - 30's, Enrie Nevers - 20's, Bronko Nagurski - 30's)

Again, the list of Halfbacks is too large to list. But even from THIS list of Fullbacks, Brown, Csonka, Taylor, Hinkle, Nevers and Nagurski were REALLY the featured ball-carriers and work-horse backs for their teams. Most, the VAST MAJORITY of Fullbacks, they're not the "featured back" or ball carrier in the backfield. Their responsibilities are a lot closer to pulling-guards than ball carriers.

So, like I said, if the Hall of Fame's requirements for Full Backs to "get in" were a true examination of the ACTUAL JOB of a Full Back, then Moose is a lock. Unfortunately, this is not the case, as Moose will be judged by his abilities and numbers as a "running back", and that's a shame.............

Nice post. FBs today are definitely not what they used to be. Jacobs would be a FB yesteryear. I agree. They should look at the FB position more like the OL than a RB. Maybe they will someday.

BTW, the only FB on that list that doesn't belong, IMO, is Jim Taylor. He's not a pimple on the *** of Joe Perry or Marion Motley much less Jim Brown. He got in because of GBs success which is ok with me as long as people don't put Paul Horning and Jim Taylor in the same sentence as. Tony Dorsett and the like.

I'd give Moose my vote if someone campaigned for FBs to get in on their blocking then pass catching and running.

Deion isn't even a question. He is the best CB in the later modern era. There aren't ten CBs in the same stratosphere with him. Ever. I hope he goes in as a Cowboy. He made his biggest name here. His self promotion comes off as arrogant and grating but he's marketed himself into a huge career. Even greater than his playing days. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head with his athletic skills at DB.

How's that for an opinion. Gotta go lie down now.

 

[lewpac]

"Nice Post" back at ya'.........................

Love him or hate him, say what you will about him..............

But Sanders did for DB's what Bob Hayes did for wide receivers.

They both literally changed the way the other side of the ball played the game. Before Bob Hayes, defensed played an entirely different scheme against the pass, if they even played one at all. This is not just my opinion. There have been many opinions offered from MUCH more advanced "football minds" than mine that concur. BOB HAYES, and BOB HAYES alone, singlehandedly changed the complete defensive approach and scheme in the modern NFL.

Dionne Sanders, single handedly, but maybe not to such a degree as Hayes, changed the way that offenses approach their schemes and game plans. Because nobody before Sanders had the skills, speed, ball handling skills and instincts at DB to shut down an entire half of the field. He's a "once in a generation" type of player.

A further testament to what Sanders did to the NFL is the "ever since Sanders" condition of the game. Because, EVER SINCE Sanders came and went, THAT'S the new standard when teams are looking for a Corner. And that's a dilemma and a quandry, because few, perhaps NOBODY has or ever will rise to THAT standard.

And I'm not just of this opinion because he played in Dallas for a while. I wouldn't let the guy baby-sit my kids. And I probably wouldn't enjoy his company at the family picnic. But that has nothing to do with his play on the field. Too often, too many people look at too many things besides the criteria for greatness and the HOF. Sanders never committed a crime, no guns or drugs or misbehaviour in Vegas. Just a sassy and "bling" personality, and a self aggrandizing persona that turns many folks off.

Sounds a lot like T.O. huh?

Anyway, not only is Dionne Sanders a first round lock for the HOF, but he's hands down, beyond a doubt, and "not even close" the absolute greatest ever to play his position in the history of the NFL................PERIOD!!

 

[wxcpo]

Deion = YES

Moose = No (unfortunately)

 

[Apollo Creed]

Moose might if he stays in the booth. He needs to work on his exigence, but he is a very bright guy that knows the game inside and out. I remember writing him a letter when I was 9 after we beat the Steelers - he wrote me back a hand written, very thoughtful note. With an autographed picture.

Total class act. Great guy.

 

[links18]

Is Moose even in the Ring of Honor yet? He absolutely should be in the Hall of Fame.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Deion the pass coverage CB and return man yes.

Deion the tackling CB no.

 

[lewpac]

Deion the pass coverage CB and return man yes.

Deion the tackling CB no.

You fell for that crap????

Name for us any other CB know for "tackling"????

That whole, entire and bogus "Sanders doesn't tackle" garbage was the product of, Sanders being NEAR PERFECT at his position, they had to find something, ANYTHING to diss him about.

Saying that "Sanders doesn't tackle" is tantamount to saying that "Columbo drops to many pass's". Or, "Emmitt Smith's tackling needs work".

CB's aren't supposed to be big tacklers. It's not their job. The only tackles they're supposed to make is if the WR beats them on a route. THAT'S IT!! But, because he joined the Dallas Cowboys, the mediots HAD to DISS him, as opposed to the love-fest he got when he joined the Niners.

You NEVER HEARD a peep about "tackling" anyone when he played for the Falcons and especially the Niners. He only played 9 games for the Niners the year before, and was declared the Defensive Player of the Year! The media love-fest with the Niners is in no way clearer than the ONE YEAR Sanders played there. For ONE YEAR, he's was everyones darling, front page great guy, and the poster-boy for the NFL. One year later, he's just a cocky big mouth show off who doesn't tackle.

What changed? The uniform. From Whiner to a Cowboy. Now, all of a sudden, we have to come up with goblins and ghosts to find SOMETHING about him that's wrong.

You should've known that, being a Cowboy fan.

So they come up with some bogus crap about "not tackling" in order to take the shine off the guy. I saw through that the minute it started.

 

[RCowboyFan]

You fell for that crap????

Name for us any other CB know for "tackling"????

That whole, entire and bogus "Sanders doesn't tackle" garbage was the product of, Sanders being NEAR PERFECT at his position, they had to find something, ANYTHING to diss him about.

Saying that "Sanders doesn't tackle" is tantamount to saying that "Columbo drops to many pass's". Or, "Emmitt Smith's tackling needs work".

CB's aren't supposed to be big tacklers. It's not their job. The only tackles they're supposed to make is if the WR beats them on a route. THAT'S IT!! But, because he joined the Dallas Cowboys, the mediots HAD to DISS him, as opposed to the love-fest he got when he joined the Niners.

You NEVER HEARD a peep about "tackling" anyone when he played for the Falcons and especially the Niners. He only played 9 games for the Niners the year before, and was declared the Defensive Player of the Year! The media love-fest with the Niners is in no way clearer than the ONE YEAR Sanders played there. For ONE YEAR, he's was everyones darling, front page great guy, and the poster-boy for the NFL. One year later, he's just a cocky big mouth show off who doesn't tackle.

What changed? The uniform. From Whiner to a Cowboy. Now, all of a sudden, we have to come up with goblins and ghosts to find SOMETHING about him that's wrong.

You should've known that, being a Cowboy fan.

So they come up with some bogus crap about "not tackling" in order to take the shine off the guy. I saw through that the minute it started.

Now I have seen dumb analogies before, but yours takes the cake dude. Whats next? Punters have to throw better to compare to CB tackling?

Hello?? CB do tackle. Take Newman for our team now. Or take Champ Bailey or Woodson. Anyone other Deion, usually make attempt at tackling. Now Deion was much more clever at pretending, unlike Mike Jenkins did this past season.

Deion always had reputation of not being a tackler since he was a falcon, so your argument about some conspiracy theory about Deion getting that reputation with Dallas. Heck, I hope he doesn't enter as Dallas Cowboy in HOF.

Deion was one of the greatest Cover Corners in his time, and there is no doubt about it. But nevertheless, the guy was a cancer on the Cowboys team. He was a mercernary, nothting less and nothing more. He wants to get in as a Falcon, he had mentioned that before. So maybe you don't need to defend Cowboys honor for Deion.

He always said, it was a business decision not to tackle. SO don't make excuses now. Read and do some research before you start blaming media or haters of cowboys for his no tackling label.

 

[lewpac]

Conveniently, you named the only two CB's in history or "brought wood" in Baily and Woodson...................

Terrance Newman? Yeah, what he "brings" in tackling, he lacks in coverage anyway. Nowhere NEAR Sanders in coverage.

C'mon man. You're actually gonna sit there and try to convince us all that the CB position is known for "big hitters"? Safety? Yeah, there's a few out there who could double as an outside LB.

I stick by my opinion. Any criticism about Sanders not being a big "tackler" is someone reaching to find a needle-deficiency in a "haystack" of almost-perfection in the CB position.

No matter what you or anyone else thinks, Sanders was, by far, the single greatest coverage man ever to play the game. He'll forever be the "standard" by which others are measured. Whether you like his demeanor or not (of which I do not) is of no consequence. We're talking HOF and NFL Football and talent here. Not personalities.

So, get over it. If you don't recognize that Sanders is/was in a league unto himself, then you're not an honest broker when it comes to the NFL and talent.

 

[Apollo Creed]

He always said, it was a business decision not to tackle. SO don't make excuses now. Read and do some research before you start blaming media or haters of cowboys for his no tackling label.

I totally agree with his logic though. If I was the best athlete and pure cover corner to ever touch a football field, I wouldn't be flying around risking injury either.

The irony though, the twilight of his career was ruined by a toe injury.

 

[jem88]

I don't think Woodson has a prayer. There are several Cowboys who were better players and get very little consideration.

I'm curious to know who those players are (not saying you're wrong, but curious nonetheless.)

 

[Clove]

Moose = Bates

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Deion Sanders is a 1st ballot Hall of Fame DB, no doubt about it. The guy won defensive player of the year in 1994, enough said. He's won two Superbowl rings and was All Pro numerous times. Not to mention his kickoff and punt return skills were out of this world. I don't think Moose will ever get into the Hall of Fame, his body of work isn't impressive enough to substantiate getting in.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Deion will be in the Hall of Fame, for sure. Moose, I don't really know about. I've got a feeling that probably not, but I guess a person never knows.

 

[the kid 05]

Name for us any other CB know for "tackling"????

Winfield, cornerback for the Minnesota Vikings. Tackles like a middle linebacker, plays as well as most corners

 

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

If I had a vote I'd vote yes on Moose and no on Sanders. But I'm biased on both and it will likely go the other way around.

Why the hell would you vote like that? Bitter old haters, i swear.

 

[jobberone]

Plenty of CBs tackle well enough. Some have tackled exceptionally well. Ronnie Lott was a CB before a S. Adderley. The latter was certainly a good 'cover' corner.

 

[bounce]

Well Haley is as much a Cowboy as Deion was and he's going in. But I suspect Haley will go in as a 49er and Deion as a Falcon. Erik Williams was well on his way, pity in hindsight. Then there's a slew of next tier guys who wont make it but were pretty damn good - Novacek, Newton and Tunei maybe Norton.

NFL doesn't elect players 'as' anything. They don't go in as a player of a certain team. Only baseball does that.

 

[jobberone]

NFL doesn't elect players 'as' anything. They don't go in as a player of a certain team. Only baseball does that.

Technically true. But the selectors have a rep from each city plus a few others and this vastly influences the vote. The inductees get to pick their rep to introduce which is often a team official or a teammate of 'their team'. And the inductees generally acknowledge their 'team'. And believe me fans count the number of inductees of their team. And the question is generally always asked by sports writers as to which team they recognize.

Who the heck knows what Deion is going to do? He probably hasn't concocted his own 'buildup' as to whom the team will be. He'll get the max exposure out of it. BTW, his two SB rings are from the Boys.

 

[Star-Fan]

Technically true. But the selectors have a rep from each city plus a few others and this vastly influences the vote. The inductees get to pick their rep to introduce which is often a team official or a teammate of 'their team'. And the inductees generally acknowledge their 'team'. And believe me fans count the number of inductees of their team. And the question is generally always asked by sports writers as to which team they recognize.

Who the heck knows what Deion is going to do? He probably hasn't concocted his own 'buildup' as to whom the team will be. He'll get the max exposure out of it. BTW, his two SB rings are from the Boys.

I thought one was from SF the other from the 'Boys? I could be wrong, I've done that before you know? ...: