Will first-round pick Bobby Carpenter be inactive for the whole season?

[ddh33]

Despite the opinions of most fans, Carpenter was never really viewed as an outside guy in the 3-4. The Browns and Patriots both run 3-4s, and the coaches in those places are from Bill's coaching tree. Both organizations commented about how they really liked Bobby Carpenter. But they made clear that he was an inside linebacker in a 3-4.

Now, I do think that Carpenter can play outside situationally. in fact, I think he will as time goes by. I have heard several Mike Vrabel comparisons, and I think that eventually he's going to be a quality player no matter where he plays.

As for Ellis, he has the size needed to go against those big OTs all day long. It's awfully difficult for a smaller linebacker to do that every play. Ellis also provides a pass rush that makes defenses stay honest in who they are keying on in their blocking schemes. I'm sure there are going to be some bumps along the way for Greg at his new position, but it's actually a nice fit for him.

I do think the coverage thing is overblown though. To my knowledge, no one is asking Greg to cover backs, receivers, and tight ends 15-20 yards down field. They want him to be able to effectively cover a zone and make a tackle. I think he can do that.

 

[montgod]

Carp. couldn't have done too bad, they basically shut down the Deadskin passing game until trash time, and Carp was in on a ton of Nickel plays.

True, but I do wonder about how he did on special teams since that was the week that Cartwright took it to the bank on the kick return. I am sure it wasn't Carp's fault, but special teams wasn't exactly special last week even though Newman did do a good job. I wouldn't want Newman back there on the regular though.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

Despite the opinions of most fans, Carpenter was never really viewed as an outside guy in the 3-4. The Browns and Patriots both run 3-4s, and the coaches in those places are from Bill's coaching tree. Both organizations commented about how they really liked Bobby Carpenter. But they made clear that he was an inside linebacker in a 3-4.

Now, I do think that Carpenter can play outside situationally. in fact, I think he will as time goes by. I have heard several Mike Vrabel comparisons, and I think that eventually he's going to be a quality player no matter where he plays.

As for Ellis, he has the size needed to go against those big OTs all day long. It's awfully difficult for a smaller linebacker to do that every play. Ellis also provides a pass rush that makes defenses stay honest in who they are keying on in their blocking schemes. I'm sure there are going to be some bumps along the way for Greg at his new position, but it's actually a nice fit for him.

I do think the coverage thing is overblown though. To my knowledge, no one is asking Greg to cover backs, receivers, and tight ends 15-20 yards down field. They want him to be able to effectively cover a zone and make a tackle. I think he can do that.

Agreed. Was hard to get in the linebacker arguments because folks had it wrong. This whole strongside/weakside stuff is rubbish. Ware will eventually end up like Porter, being used everywhere on the field, scaring the hell out of QBs and offensive coordinators. The Cowboys wanted another pass rusher not an inside linebacker type to compliment Ware. Ellis gave 'em that and the size they desired, but I could only scratch my head as people said Bobby C was the right draft choice because Bill wanted a coverage/run guy over there instead. Wimbley was the best choice, because he's essentially a faster Greg Ellis. Lawson the 2nd best. He'd need to bulk up, but he was about as close to Ware the 2nd as we were going to get. That crazy speed might have made up for any rookie size deficiencies. Carpenter was always an inside guy who Bill initially considered on the outside as insurance in case Greg didn't pick it up. I agree with you, Carp will eventually get it down and be a decent starting middle linebacker, I just wish we didn't spend an 18th on it. We could have found somebody like that after the first round. Oh well, we have some great depth on our linebacker crew, assuming Bobby C eventually picks it up.

 

[Jack-Reacher]

5. - Its too bad the Moderators on this board aren't as quick to judge as some of the "talent scouts" on this board. It would be a far better place without you...and you know who YOU are.

No Doubt!!

 

[blindzebra]

True, but I do wonder about how he did on special teams since that was the week that Cartwright took it to the bank on the kick return. I am sure it wasn't Carp's fault, but special teams wasn't exactly special last week even though Newman did do a good job. I wouldn't want Newman back there on the regular though.

Throw out the TD, and we have given up 76 yards on 5 kickoff returns...15 yards a pop is extremely good.

Our punt returns have been pretty average at 8.6, but McBriar will outkick his coverage every now and then, which taints that yardage.

As far as Carpenter not having a tackle, I know for a fact he did, because I commented on it when I was watching the game, and confirmed it with the replay. He also did a great job on contain on the big hit by Roy on the 3rd down play at the LOS on Betts.

 

[ddh33]

Wimbley was my choice all along, but of course, he was Cleveland's choice too. Dallas never had a shot at him.

Manny Lawson was intriguing. His measurables were absolutely outstanding. I was really concerned about his lack of bulk though. I also worried about his ability to hold up against the run.

Carpenter was never the sexy pick, but he always seemed like a very solid pick. I thought he would eventually be able to play inside and outside. I liked his versatility. I liked his attitude. I liked his build. So I'm happy with the direction that Dallas went.

 

[cowboyed]

Why the Carpenter playing angst? He is learning a new position including new reads and he is playing behind Akin Ayodele. In that scenario it takes time to get grounded in the ILB position even if you are a first round pick.

Could you imagine if we would have made Roy Williams a cover safety in his first year?

 

[junk]

Ellis gave 'em that and the size they desired, but I could only scratch my head as people said Bobby C was the right draft choice because Bill wanted a coverage/run guy over there instead.

You do have to be able to play the run. Everyone wants to say there isn't a strong/weak side, but, historically, that side of the defense is the strong side. Look at what is considered a prototype RT vs. LT. Run blocker vs. pass protecter.

You needed someone strong at the POA. That wasn't Lawson and the FO basically said as much. They didn't figure Lawson would contribute for a couple of years and would have swapped Ware over to that side....something they didn't want to do.

Wimbley was the best choice, because he's essentially a faster Greg Ellis. Lawson the 2nd best. He'd need to bulk up, but he was about as close to Ware the 2nd as we were going to get. That crazy speed might have made up for any rookie size deficiencies. Carpenter was always an inside guy who Bill initially considered on the outside as insurance in case Greg didn't pick it up. I agree with you, Carp will eventually get it down and be a decent starting middle linebacker, I just wish we didn't spend an 18th on it. We could have found somebody like that after the first round. Oh well, we have some great depth on our linebacker crew, assuming Bobby C eventually picks it up.

I agree Wimbley would have been the guy if he was there. However, Lawson obviously wasn't the second best guy or the team would have taken him. Taking on an air of superiority and acting like you know what the team wanted when they do the exact opposite doesn't exactly support your cause.

Haven't watched Lawson in SF much, but I suspect he is only really being asked to get up the field. A stand up DE only. The OLBs in Dallas have more responsibilities than that.

 

[BigD_95]

Plenty of crappy LBs is more like it.

Plus one thing I forgot to bring up...when we drafted Carpenter we did not know if we'd be able to re-sign James, so once again a big, versatile LB WAS A DRAFT PRIORITY.

To think otherwise and to throw the name Shanle into the mix only shows a complete lack of credibility.

First Carp isnt better then Shanle right now even though he could be down the road. And to continue to discount Shanle as nobody or average player "shows a complete lack of credibility" He is a very good player a starter here last year and now in NO.

While the thought of Carp being a upgrade is ok but not when you need immediate help else where in positions that were weaker then LB. Then the team should go a different direction. I really cant understand how people dont get that point.

The reason they drafted Carp was because they thought he was so good that he would make a immediate impact right off the bat. They were wrong and you cant argue that.

Also Im not calling Carp a long term bust. But any first RD pick besides a QB that cant make a immediate impact on a team could be classified as a bust to certain point. First rd & 2nd rd picks should help out immediately or its considered a disappointment.

So people need to get off their high horse and call a spade a spade. Carp wasnt what they thought they were getting. It doesn't make him a long term bust and Im not giving up on the guy. I wish him the best of luck and hope he develops into a great player.

Just don't sit here and say Dallas drafted him as a long term project. That's about the dumbest thing I ever heard. They only picks teams draft in the 1st and 2nd rd as long term projects are QB's. Everyone else they want to contribute immediately.

 

[junk]

First Carp isnt better then Shanle right now even though he could be down the road. And to continue to discount Shanle as nobody or average player "shows a complete lack of credibility" He is a very good player a starter here last year and now in NO.

While the thought of Carp being a upgrade is ok but not when you need immediate help else where in positions that were weaker then LB. Then the team should go a different direction. I really cant understand how people dont get that point.

The reason they drafted Carp was because they thought he was so good that he would make a immediate impact right off the bat. They were wrong and you cant argue that.

Also Im not calling Carp a long term bust. But any first RD pick besides a QB that cant make a immediate impact on a team could be classified as a bust to certain point. First rd & 2nd rd picks should help out immediately or its considered a disappointment.

So people need to get off their high horse and call a spade a spade. Carp wasnt what they thought they were getting. It doesn't make him a long term bust and Im not giving up on the guy. I wish him the best of luck and hope he develops into a great player.

Just don't sit here and say Dallas drafted him as a long term project. That's about the dumbest thing I ever heard. They only picks teams draft in the 1st and 2nd rd as long term projects are QB's. Everyone else they want to contribute immediately.

Impact of a first or second round pick all depends on the quality of the team.

On bad teams, I agree, your first and second round picks should make an impact. On decent teams, they might not make an immediate impact. How many players on the bottom of 1 are making a significant contribution right now?

Two questions for you:
1. What other position would you have proposed selecting in 1?
2. What would have happened if Ellis had not worked out in the move to OLB and the team had not drafted Carpenter? Your starter would be Al Singleton with Rocky Boiman backing him up. Is that a position of strength?

I'll let the kid get his feet under him before I call him a bust. Talk about premature.

 

[joseephuss]

Would Shanle even be playing in Dallas? Looks like he would be a back up, so it makes some sense to trade him and get a draft pick.

 

[peplaw06]

[Shanle] is a very good player a starter here last year and now in NO.

Not exactly a RINGING endorsement. Last season he ONLY started because we had so many injuries to the LB corp. And starting in NO?? So is Scott Fujita. Give me a break. Shanle was going to be cut. To get a draft pick for him when he wouldn't have been on the roster is a great move. you're the only one complaining about that one, trust me.

 

[BigD_95]

I'll let the kid get his feet under him before I call him a bust. Talk about premature.

If you read what I wrote I didnt call him a bust yet. I did however say in terms of wanting your first RD pick to provide a immediate impact he could be labeled as a disappointment. I even said I wouldnt give up on him. How is any of that premature? Its just honest.

To get a draft pick for him when he wouldn't have been on the roster is a great move. you're the only one complaining about that one, trust me.

Where am I complaining about this? I think it was a good move also. I was pointing out to someone who said when we drafted Carp we didnt have any LB's and I mention about Shanle being here when we drafted Carp because that person left him out of the LB list when he was trying to say we needed Carp. Then the guy basically said he Shanle wasnt any good and thats not the case either. He's not great but he was going to be a back up anyways here to Akin.

Its like you cant even make a comment about something with everyone not jumping down your throat. Carp is a disappointment. No 2 ways about it. He wasn't even active the first game for crying out loud. None of this means he wont develop into a great player. But as of now he is a disappointment.

 

[StarAmongStars]

Plenty of crappy LBs is more like it.

Plus one thing I forgot to bring up...when we drafted Carpenter we did not know if we'd be able to re-sign James, so once again a big, versatile LB WAS A DRAFT PRIORITY.

To think otherwise and to throw the name Shanle into the mix only shows a complete lack of credibility.

I don't disagree that it never hurts to add depth to your football team, but LB wasn't as big a priority in the draft as some may think. Especially since we added Boiman and Ayodele in FA to begin with. Also Parcells must have knew all along that Ellis was going to be moved if he was going to be on this team in 2006.

Shanle has 13 tackles in 2 games for the saints, and teams he's played on are now 8-2 with him in the starting lineup....we made a huge mistake drafting this bust carpenter and cutting him lose. Sean Peyton and the NO front office is likely laughing in our face that they got this guy for a 4th rounder....

 

[1fisher]

We didn't have enough players at that spot when we drafted him.

We had no idea Ellis could make that switch.

We had no idea if Akin could make the transition to the 3-4.

We had no idea how Burnett would do coming back from his injury.

Carpenter was the right player at the right time, and will be a very good player down the road.

you're making too much sense for some of these knuckle heads!!!!!

excellent points!

 

[junk]

Carp is a disappointment. No 2 ways about it. He wasn't even active the first game for crying out loud. None of this means he wont develop into a great player. But as of now he is a disappointment.

Why doesn't Spears get the same criticisms? He was drafted in the same area and didn't start until the first few games.

 

[Stautner]

you're making too much sense for some of these knuckle heads!!!!!

excellent points!

This leads to a question .......

Does being a fan cause people to lose all sense of logic and reason, or is it just a coincidence that a lot of fans are that way naturally?

 

[QT]

Impact of a first or second round pick all depends on the quality of the team.

On bad teams, I agree, your first and second round picks should make an impact. On decent teams, they might not make an immediate impact. How many players on the bottom of 1 are making a significant contribution right now?

Two questions for you:
1. What other position would you have proposed selecting in 1?
2. What would have happened if Ellis had not worked out in the move to OLB and the team had not drafted Carpenter? Your starter would be Al Singleton with Rocky Boiman backing him up. Is that a position of strength?

I'll let the kid get his feet under him before I call him a bust. Talk about premature.

WR Chad Jackson comes to mind. That would have gave him time to learn from Glenn and TO. Chad might turn out to be a very good WR.

 

[peplaw06]

WR Chad Jackson comes to mind. That would have gave him time to learn from Glenn and TO. Chad might turn out to be a very good WR.

Yeah he might... but his performance thus far is not exactly making me regret taking Carp. He wouldn't be doing much in Dallas either.

 

[Kangaroo]

WR Chad Jackson comes to mind. That would have gave him time to learn from Glenn and TO. Chad might turn out to be a very good WR.

But then he is a bust because he is not staring right away he is not an impact wr because he be sitting behing Owens and Glen :bang2: