Will the Cowboys actually draft a high safety, which one?

[Xavier187]

Bubba Bolden or the Georgia kid

 

[KingintheNorth]

Nasiriildeen from Draft Network

His natural athletic profile enables him to make plays on the ball despite not necessarily having the best ball skills. Can be tardy locating the football in the air and making plays on it, especially with his back to the quarterback.

I want a safety who has elite instincts, ball skills and is considered a strong tackler. I don't think Nas is a good fit, especially in Nolan's scheme.

1). I don't think Nolan is here next year. Injuries will be the excuse rally cry but someone will have to pay the piper for this year's performance.
2). I envision Nasirildeen (6'4" 215) as a Strong Safety and not a Free Safety. Use his size to help negate the mismatches that Tight Ends and big WRs create.
3). We all want Safeties with "elite instincts, ball skills, and is considered a strong tackler"..They barely exist.

• Minkah Fitzpatrick - Could have had him. Stephen said he "wasn't worth a 1st round pick"
• Earl Thomas - Whatever his off-field issues are, they are so bad that 32 teams won't touch him in a year with high roster turnover.
• Derwin James - Beast. Can't stay healthy
• Jamal Adams. - Elite, very expensive, and really only has 2 of the 3 traits you mentioned.
• Honey Badger - We didn't think he was "our type of safety"
• Justin Simmons - Quietly a very good player. So much so Denver had to franchise tag him. Possibility that he hits open market this year.
• Budda Baker - Smallish but special; went 8 picks after Taco Charlton.
• Harrison Smith - Possibly available next year but will be 32.

The first thing that has to happen is that voices in the Front Office that don't value the Safety position must be silenced. They have been proven wrong over and over again. You go cheap at the position, you get cheap results.

 

[Cowboyny]

1). I don't think Nolan is here next year. Injuries will be the excuse rally cry but someone will have to pay the piper for this year's performance.
2). I envision Nasirildeen (6'4" 215) as a Strong Safety and not a Free Safety. Use his size to help negate the mismatches that Tight Ends and big WRs create.
3). We all want Safeties with "elite instincts, ball skills, and is considered a strong tackler"..They barely exist.

• Minkah Fitzpatrick - Could have had him. Stephen said he "wasn't worth a 1st round pick"
• Earl Thomas - Whatever his off-field issues are, they are so bad that 32 teams won't touch him in a year with high roster turnover.
• Derwin James - Beast. Can't stay healthy
• Jamal Adams. - Elite, very expensive, and really only has 2 of the 3 traits you mentioned.
• Honey Badger - We didn't think he was "our type of safety"
• Justin Simmons - Quietly a very good player. So much so Denver had to franchise tag him. Possibility that he hits open market this year.
• Budda Baker - Smallish but special; went 8 picks after Taco Charlton.
• Harrison Smith - Possibly available next year but will be 32.

The first thing that has to happen is that voices in the Front Office that don't value the Safety position must be silenced. They have been proven wrong over and over again. You go cheap at the position, you get cheap results.

Excellent response!

-With the defense starting to play better, along with several starters returning, I believe Nolan returns. It is possible that he maybe forced to change some of his assistants and perhaps be on a short leash next season. I am looking at safeties who are good scheme fits for Nolan's defense, unless we hear otherwise.

-I agree Nasirildeen is more of a traditional strong safety prospect. His size is quite like Kam Chancellor. If he can hold up in underneath coverage, he will be a good player on the next level. However, going back to Nolan's scheme, he is a poor fit. The scheme requires more of a free safety type who can play over the top coverage.

-The list of high level safeties is small in the league right now. Just tells you they are very hard to come by. This draft doesn't have an elite safety prospect, but early on looks like good depth of players who can help the Cowboys. None of the safety prospects will check all the boxes so to speak. The team has to determine what are the most important attributes they seek at the position and find the right prospect to fill it.

-We just don't know if the front office will change their mindsets, not taking a high safety nor a DT, we can only hope the coaches stress to them the importance of each.

 

[Cowboyny]

It's a great year to draft a S. I don't see any sure fire 1st rounders, but a lot of good options in the 2nd/3rd that would be upgrades over what we have. My early favorites are Moehrig and Holland but I haven't looked at a lot of guys yet.

If the Cowboys can maintain a top 10 pick, they should have options in both the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the draft. Good Safeties usually start coming off the board the start of rd 2, but with good depth it could stretch another rd.

 

[stilltheguru]

If the Cowboys can maintain a top 10 pick, they should have options in both the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the draft. Good Safeties usually start coming off the board the start of rd 2, but with good depth it could stretch another rd.

I stated in another thread that in the past 5 years it nevet stretched to round 3 except for Justin Reid and him slipping was about his brother. Other than that its been all round 2 with guys playing as starters immediately

 

[Cowboyny]

I stated in another thread that in the past 5 years it nevet stretched to round 3 except for Justin Reid and him slipping was about his brother. Other than that its been all round 2 with guys playing as starters immediately

Usually, they fly off the board at the start of day 2. I believe Thornhill who we liked was at the tail end of rd 2. Round 2 sounds about right to draft a safety, but will they? Haven't valued the position for years.

 

[Future]

The first thing that has to happen is that voices in the Front Office that don't value the Safety position must be silenced. They have been proven wrong over and over again. You go cheap at the position, you get cheap results.

Spending big on safeties is pointless, none of the teams who do are good. Nobody spends more than the Titans, Broncos and Vikings and those defenses are, at best, average. It's just not a position that makes a difference.

Matthieu primarily plays slot CB, or did last year, and Minkah is effective because he can do the same thing.

As a DB, if you can't play man coverage, you're not particularly valuable.

 

[KingintheNorth]

Spending big on safeties is pointless, none of the teams who do are good. Nobody spends more than the Titans, Broncos and Vikings and those defenses are, at best, average. It's just not a position that makes a difference.

Matthieu primarily plays slot CB, or did last year, and Minkah is effective because he can do the same thing.

As a DB, if you can't play man coverage, you're not particularly valuable.

Slot CB is essentially 1 of your starting Safeties in modern NFL defense.

It's what we pretend Xavier Woods is.

Minkah single handedly changed the Steelers fortunes around last year and now have one of the best defenses in football.

Honey Badger is also a huge factor for the KC defense who only needs to make an occasional stop with Mahomes, Reid, and that offense.

Derwin James when healthy is an impact player.

Simmons is very good for an overall not-great Broncos team.

Jamal Adams is also one of the best defensive players in the league.


Kam Chancellor and pre-crazy Earl Thomas also allowed the Seahawks to play extremely aggressive coverages in a pass-happy (and rule enhanced), offensive era.

I also think you might be mistaking "spending big" with "investing" in the position. Heck, I'd settle for "not neglecting" it.

 

[Future]

Slot CB is essentially 1 of your starting Safeties in modern NFL defense..

No it isn't. Slot CB is slot CB, because nickel is base.

 

[KingintheNorth]

No it isn't. Slot CB is slot CB, because nickel is base.

You are thinking too rigidly. Defenses are way more flexible now.

Budda Baker, Honey Badger, Lamarcus Joyner. They are all starting "safeties" that spend a majority of their time in the slot.

The nickel corner for some teams is your traditional, smaller 3rd corner type like you are thinking. For other teams, the safety slides over. Athletic Tight Ends have changed the way defenses evaluate and utilize their personnel. Derwin James started his first few games as a traditional safety. Then the Chargers started playing him in the slot and he became an All-Pro.

Jevon Holland is a draft prospect who fits this mold. Starts at/and is labeled as a "safety" but plays majority of his snaps in the slot. I'd think of using Nasirildeen like this but mainly because I think he could match up well with the Travis Kelce's and George Kittle's of the world.

You eluded to this yourself when you posted the tweet with the breakdown of Mathieu's snaps. He is listed as a safety (an All-Pro safety at that), even though he played 51 more snaps in the slot (457) than he did at safety (406).

 

[stilltheguru]

Spending big on safeties is pointless, none of the teams who do are good. Nobody spends more than the Titans, Broncos and Vikings and those defenses are, at best, average. It's just not a position that makes a difference.

Matthieu primarily plays slot CB, or did last year, and Minkah is effective because he can do the same thing.

As a DB, if you can't play man coverage, you're not particularly valuable.

What about the safeties that can erase tight ends?

 

[KingintheNorth]

What about the safeties that can erase tight ends?

Football is chess, not checkers.

Some teams see these basketball power forwards playing Tight End and go out and try to find their own.

Smart defensive coaches start thinking about identifying players who can match up with those type of players.

The truly great team builders go out and do both.

 

[cnuball21]

You are thinking too rigidly. Defenses are way more flexible now.

Budda Baker, Honey Badger, Lamarcus Joyner. They are all starting "safeties" that spend a majority of their time in the slot.

The nickel corner for some teams is your traditional, smaller 3rd corner type like you are thinking. For other teams, the safety slides over. Athletic Tight Ends have changed the way defenses evaluate and utilize their personnel. Derwin James started his first few games as a traditional safety. Then the Chargers started playing him in the slot and he became an All-Pro.

Jevon Holland is a draft prospect who fits this mold. Starts at/and is labeled as a "safety" but plays majority of his snaps in the slot. I'd think of using Nasirildeen like this but mainly because I think he could match up well with the Travis Kelce's and George Kittle's of the world.

You eluded to this yourself when you posted the tweet with the breakdown of Mathieu's snaps. He is listed as a safety (an All-Pro safety at that), even though he played 51 more snaps in the slot (457) than he did at safety (406).

Some good points here...every team is a bit different and some do use their Safeties to cover in the spot if they’re good enough.

I absolutely love Holland for this reason. He has a lot of experience there and has great ball skills.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

I'm curious as to why JJ has tried to repeat his Haley success, taking a "troubled" player and bringing him to the Cowboys, but hasn't tried to repeat other things - like drafting Darren Woodson, mostly a linebacker in college, and turning him into a safety.

Adding "undersized" linebackers to your list of potential safeties means more to pick from and more potential success. Or like Tuinei, a defensive player switched to offensive tackle.
Not something you should try too much, or if the player doesn't possess the skills to make the transition, but we haven't seen that much lately...

 

[Future]

What about the safeties that can erase tight ends?

They don't exist.

There's not a safety in the league who can cover the elite receiving TEs with any consistency.

 

[Future]

You are thinking too rigidly. Defenses are way more flexible now.

Budda Baker, Honey Badger, Lamarcus Joyner. They are all starting "safeties" that spend a majority of their time in the slot.

The nickel corner for some teams is your traditional, smaller 3rd corner type like you are thinking. For other teams, the safety slides over. Athletic Tight Ends have changed the way defenses evaluate and utilize their personnel. Derwin James started his first few games as a traditional safety. Then the Chargers started playing him in the slot and he became an All-Pro.

Jevon Holland is a draft prospect who fits this mold. Starts at/and is labeled as a "safety" but plays majority of his snaps in the slot. I'd think of using Nasirildeen like this but mainly because I think he could match up well with the Travis Kelce's and George Kittle's of the world.

You eluded to this yourself when you posted the tweet with the breakdown of Mathieu's snaps. He is listed as a safety (an All-Pro safety at that), even though he played 51 more snaps in the slot (457) than he did at safety (406).

You're wrong. You do not run a base defense against 3-WR sets. If the safety comes down, it's to cover a TE or a back, or they're in zone. No team (except I think Seattle) runs base 4-3/3-4 defenses against 11 personnel.

 

[stilltheguru]

They don't exist.

There's not a safety in the league who can cover the elite receiving TEs with any consistency.

But you think their are safeties that can giard slot wrs?

 

[LACowboysFan1]

They don't exist.

There's not a safety in the league who can cover the elite receiving TEs with any consistency.

I would tend to agree, but there's one thing - there are very few "elite receiving tight ends" in the league. Kittle, Kelce, Waller, Ertz are about it. There are other pretty good tight ends, but not to the level of the others, and there are safeties who can cover them. So just because a safety can't cover the Kittles, etc. of the league doesn't mean he can't be valuable in coverage...

 

[Future]

But you think their are safeties that can giard slot wrs?

No, except pretty much Mattheiu and Minkah, who will play snaps at slot corner to do it.

 

[Future]

I would tend to agree, but there's one thing - there are very few "elite receiving tight ends" in the league. Kittle, Kelce, Waller, Ertz are about it. There are other pretty good tight ends, but not to the level of the others, and there are safeties who can cover them. So just because a safety can't cover the Kittles, etc. of the league doesn't mean he can't be valuable in coverage...

Fair enough, though I think the group that safeties struggle to cover is much bigger than that .

But regardless of the number of those TEs, the "Valuable in coverage but can't cover the elite TEs" group is large, and they're all the same player. I'm not going to invest in one of those guys, when I can get them cheap. I've made this point with Jeff Heath over and over again. Maybe he's only the 24th-best safety in the league, but the in-game difference between #8 and #24 is practically indistinguishable. Why pay Adrian Amos $12m when you can have Heath do practically the same thing for $3m.