"Win-or-go-home" from a team point of view

[percyhoward]

The QB is the most vital component in building a championship team which is why most bad teams that are selecting #1 overall in the draft take a QB. Most real bad teams are real bad because they have a crap QB situation. The Baltimore teams that lost back to back AFC title games in 08 and 09 were far better defensive teams than what the Ravens won a championship with last season but they couldn't get over the hump due to Flacco's awful performances in the title games. In the 08 AFC title game Flacco was dreadful completing only 43.3% of his passes and tossing 3 int's. He finished the game with an embarrassing 18.2 passer rating. The following year in the AFC title game Flacco again was awful turning the ball over twice and finishing the game with a 48.4 passer rating. When it came down to him having to make plays he couldn't get it done because he was a bus driver. Even a stout defense can only hold up so long if their QB can't generate any offense or points.You keep putting your defense back on the field because of 3 and outs and turnovers they're going to break eventually.

The Ravens ranked #2 in total defense in 08 and #3 in 09. Arguably the greatest defense the NFL has ever seen was the 85 Bears defense and the only game that team lost was due to getting picked apart by one of the greatest passers in NFL history. In the 2011 SB the Giants and Pats had the 2 lowest rated defenses to ever play in a SB. NE's D was ranked #31 and NY was ranked #27 in total defense. Pass defense is important no question but even the best defenses are having trouble stopping potent passing attacks. The Steelers had the #1 defense in 08 but Warner lit them up in the SB for 377 yards and 3 TD's. Defenses have not only been hindered by all the rule changes the last few years but the receivers today are bigger and faster than years ago.

DB's are at a big disadvantage trying to defend a 6' 3" to 6' 5" 220 to 235 lb WR who runs under a 4.4 40. The receivers today are big, fast and physical and you pair them up with a prolific passer and all you can hope to do as a defense is try and keep offenses out of the end zone. With the QB's, receivers and schemes today offenses are going to move the football and some weeks it comes down to which team can outscore the other in a shootout. Last postseason Aaron Rodgers had a nice game vs SF completing almost 68% of his passes. He tossed 2 TD's and finished with a passer rating of 91.5 but the game turned into a shootout and Rodgers was outgunned by Kaepernick who put up 444 yards passing and rushing and scored 4 TD's.

The duel threat QB has added an element that's going to make it even harder for defenses to put the clamps down. These QB's can burn you through the air and on the ground. When you have a QB who can account for 444 yards of offense and 4 TD's that's going to greatly influence the outcome of a game. Alex Smith was playing pretty good for SF but in todays game teams are looking for a real game changing QB at the position because big games come down to QB's having to make plays to win.

I read the whole thing.

Now, name one of those offensive plays that you mentioned that was NOT a defensive play for the other team. Or if you prefer, name one of those plays that was more important for the offense than it was for the defense.

The plays in a game can't possibly be more important for one team than they are for the other. The plays made by the QB (pass offense) can't possibly be any more or less important than the ones made by the pass defense. They're the same plays.

In 2012, teams whose QB had at least a 100 rating went 135-33-1. Guess the record of teams whose pass defense allowed at least a 100 rating.

Teams with our rank in offensive passer rating the last two seasons finish 11-5 on average. Want to know why we're 8-8 the last two seasons?

Because teams with our rank in defensive passer rating and rushing TD finish 4-12 on average. We're a 4-12 team with an 11-5 passing offense.

 

[DanteEXT]

By your logic in this post how does he (Romo) have the yards you and all the Romophiles hang your hats on?

Your position of "this is a team game" would be more persuasive if you didn't follow that with your excuse riddled posts like this one about Romo.

Your agenda is clear.

My contention is the Washington game falls in his lap for the last pick. Momentum turned and the defense could not prevent the loss because it came so late and in such a critical point.

Not all games are that way, but this one surely was.

Some who wish to argue stats claim that a pick, is a pick, is a pick.

But the premium on an interception in the waning minutes of a win or go home game has a higher value for both teams - positive and negative - because of the little time left to rebound from the interception.

That Romo pick was a foolish throw and thus he has a lion's share of responsibility for that turnaround which ended up being a loss.

This does not absolve the rest of the team.

But this does focus on Romo's gaff that is clearly under the national microscope and harkens back to other turnovers in critical games.

And that lends him a reputation - right or wrong - that is assaulted on this site. But clearly where there is smoke...

Actually, the defense COULD/SHOULD have forced a FG and given the offense one more chance. Hatcher blew that chance with a roughing the passer penalty on the 3rd down incompletion.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

So then, following your logic here, the majority of football fans who follow the game and hold the QB's who win Super Bowls in the highest regard are clueless?

Is that your contention?

The fact that you've watched something your entire life doesn't preclude you from being clueless about it. The world is full of people who think they know something but are too pigheaded to change their mind even when a better explanation comes along.

 

[ufcrules1]

There's no difference. One can't be more important than the other because they're the same thing looked at from different viewpoints.

I couldn't possibly disagree with you more. A QB can pretty much make or break you by himself. He is quite simply the most important player on your team.

 

[superpunk]

I'll try a more direct approach. Simple question: What's more important: the performance of your QB, or the performance of your pass defense?

A QB's performance is vital to a teams success because you have no chance of winning if they're off their game and turn the ball over 4-5 times. A QB can make or break you depending on their performance.

I mean there's really, truly no difference.

Just turn it around, and you can say all the same things.

Well that couldn't have gone better if you had planned it.

 

[ufcrules1]

The fact that you've watched something your entire life doesn't preclude you from being clueless about it. The world is full of people who think they know something but are too pigheaded to change their mind even when a better explanation comes along.

I absolutely agree with this. At the end of the day though, one person has to be right and the other has to be wrong.

 

[KJJ]

I read the whole thing.

Now, name one of those offensive plays that you mentioned that was NOT a defensive play for the other team. Or if you prefer, name one of those plays that was more important for the offense than it was for the defense.

The plays in a game can't possibly be more important for one team than they are for the other. The plays made by the QB (pass offense) can't possibly be any more or less important than the ones made by the pass defense. They're the same plays.

In 2012, teams whose QB had at least a 100 rating went 135-33-1. Guess the record of teams whose pass defense allowed at least a 100 rating.

Teams with our rank in offensive passer rating the last two seasons finish 11-5 on average. Want to know why we're 8-8 the last two seasons?

Because teams with our rank in defensive passer rating and rushing TD finish 4-12 on average. We're a 4-12 team with an 11-5 passing offense.

How about answering my questions instead of avoiding them. I'll try it again if you had the #1 overall pick and had the choice between the highest rated QB in the last decade and the highest rated defensive player in the last decade which player would you pick and why?

 

[TwoDeep3]

I absolutely agree with this. At the end of the day though, one person has to be right and the other has to be wrong.

The basis of football message boards.

 

[KJJ]

It has nothing to do with stats yes Rodgers played great and the Packers still lost that is the fricken point. It is not about the QB it is about the team always has been. QB do not win SB that is a load of BS TEAMS wins SB it is not hard to figure out unless all you do is listen to these pin heads in the media. I don't care how great a QB is he will only win when he has a team that can perform around him.

Rodgers didn't play great in the Packers only regular season loss in 2011 and he didn't play great in their loss in the playoffs. In both GB's losses Rodgers got outplayed by the opposing QB. No one is saying it's "all" about the QB that's just a spin by those who have an agenda but the fact is QB's influence the outcome of games more than other player on the field care to deny it? In 2011 the Colts went from a 10-6 team in 2010 with an injured Peyton Manning to a 2-14 team without Manning because they got poor QB play. After drafting the best QB in college football they went from a 2-14 team to an 11-5 playoff team what was the reason for that big turn around?

You don't think the play of their rookie QB played a huge role in their 11-5 season? Do you honesty believe they would have gone 11-5 with the same QB situation they had in 2011? Seattle went 7-9 in 2011. They went 11-5 and made the playoffs in 2012 you don't think the play of Russell Wilson played a big part in that turn around? Washington went 5-11 in 2011 with Rex Grossman and John Beck. They went 10-6 and made the playoffs with RG3 last season you don't think his addition was the main reason for their turn around in 2012? A QB can make or break a team it's a fact! Denver never goes to 3 SB's in the 80's if they don't have John Elway as their QB. His teams got pasted in those SB's because he didn't have a solid team around him but a QB can carry a team a long way if they're special.

No single player can impact a team like a QB that's my point regardless of how some try and spin it. No one is saying that's all it takes to win but you have no chance in todays NFL of winning a championship with an average QB regardless of how great a roster you have. The QB will eventually get you beat just like Flacco got some very good Baltimore teams beat in the AFC title games in 08 and 09. He had 5 turnovers in those 2 games with passer ratings of 18.2 and 48.4.

 

[Doomsday101]

Rodgers didn't play great in the Packers only regular season loss in 2011 and he didn't play great in their loss in the playoffs. In both GB's losses Rodgers got outplayed by the opposing QB. No one is saying it's "all" about the QB that's just a spin by those who have an agenda but the fact is QB's influence the outcome of games more than other player on the field care to deny it? In 2011 the Colts went from a 10-6 team in 2010 with an injured Peyton Manning to a 2-14 team without Manning because they got poor QB play. After drafting the best QB in college football they went from a 2-14 team to an 11-5 playoff team what was the reason for that big turn around?

You don't think the play of their rookie QB played a huge role in their 11-5 season? Do you honesty believe they would have gone 11-5 with the same QB situation they had in 2011? Seattle went 7-9 in 2011. They went 11-5 and made the playoffs in 2012 you don't think the play of Russell Wilson played a big part in that turn around? Washington went 5-11 in 2011 with Rex Grossman and John Beck. They went 10-6 and made the playoffs with RG3 last season you don't think his addition was the main reason for their turn around in 2012? A QB can make or break a team it's a fact! Denver never goes to 3 SB's in the 80's if they don't have John Elway as their QB. His teams got pasted in those SB's because he didn't have a solid team around him but a QB can carry a team a long way if they're special.

No single player can impact a team like a QB that's my point regardless of how some try and spin it. No one is saying that's all it takes to win but you have no chance in todays NFL of winning a championship with an average QB regardless of how great a roster you have. The QB will eventually get you beat just like Flacco got some very good Baltimore teams beat in the AFC title games in 08 and 09. He had 5 turnovers in those 2 games with passer ratings of 18.2 and 48.4.

No agenda just sick and tired of people claiming it is all the QB get a clue it if football QB does not play one single down on defense he has a lot of responsiblity in terms of offense but he still only controls so much, he can't block for himself, he does not run the routs or make the tough catch in traffic. Yes we get it QB is important but to win it takes a team not one person and when I see people making these claims of Troy has 3 SB as if he won them by himself, he didn't he had a great team offense, defense and special team that is what won for us. Yes he was a big part of it but he nor any QB is going to win without a lot of help from the team. If you can't get that then no need to continue because it does show a total lack of knowledge. QB clearly is a important position while they can't win a game by themselfs they can do a lot to lose a game by being careless with the ball. You talk Seattle they had an outstanding defense, a running game that did not force them into passing situations. Wilson was not out there throwing it 50 times a game he had many other parts all working with him, Lynch was big part.

This is not about protecting Romo, Romo has made mistakes but this team has not played well enough to win period and that is not on Romo it is on the Dallas Cowboys. I don't see the big plays coming from defense, I see a defense who fails to get turnover. To act as if well it is the QB that is total BS

 

[KJJ]

No agenda just sick and tired of people claiming it is all the QB get a clue it if football QB does not play one single down on defense he has a lot of responsiblity in terms of offense but he still only controls so much, he can't block for himself, he does not run the routs or make the tough catch in traffic.

Show me a post where I said it's all the QB? I've repeatedly said it's not "all" the QB try following my point instead of putting your own spin on everything I say.

Yes we get it QB is important but to win it takes a team not one person and when I see people making these claims of Troy has 3 SB as if he won them by himself, he didn't he had a great team offense, defense and special team that is what won for us.

If Romo had 3 SB wins on his resume no one here would be complaining if they said he had 3 SB's would they? Cowboy FANS are upset when everyone talks about Romo's 1-6 elimination game record but they wouldn't be saying a damn thing if he had a 6-1 elimination game record would they? One FAN said the Cowboys 1-6 elimination game record isn't Romo's record it's the teams record but credited Romo with a 5-1 stretch. That says it all about the mindset of Cowboy FANS.

Yes he was a big part of it but he nor any QB is going to win without a lot of help from the team. If you can't get that then no need to continue because it does show a total lack of knowledge.

What shows a total lack of knowledge is when someone puts their own spin on everything someone posts just to fit an agenda they have. The NFL was a different game back when Troy won his championships I've already pointed that out try reading what I'VE said instead of putting your own take on everything.. You can't win championships today by running the ball for 4 quarters behind a big OL and playing great defense because it's a passing league. You can't just build a lead by pounding the ball all day and sitting on it while your defense is making stops not with the playmaking/duel threat QB's we see today. We saw a 17 point lead evaporate in the SB last Feb. Every SB has gone down to the wire the past 6 years because of the evolution of the passing game. It's a different game today dominated by 4000/5000 yard passers and even a team with a 2100 yard rusher isn't going to go far if they don't get solid play from their QB in win or go home games.

 

[Doomsday101]

Show me a post where I said it's all the QB? I've repeatedly said it's not "all" the QB try following my point instead of putting your own spin on everything I say.



If Romo had 3 SB wins on his resume no one here would be complaining if they said he had 3 SB's would they? Cowboy FANS are upset when everyone talks about Romo's 1-6 elimination game record but they wouldn't be saying a damn thing if he had a 6-1 elimination game record would they? One FAN said the Cowboys 1-6 elimination game record isn't Romo's record it's the teams record but credited Romo with a 5-1 stretch. That says it all about the mindset of Cowboy FANS.



What shows a total lack of knowledge is when someone puts their own spin on everything just to fit an agenda they have. The NFL was a different game back when Troy won his championships I've already pointed that out try reading what I'VE said instead of putting your own take on everything.. You can't win championships today by running the ball for 4 quarters behind a big OL and playing great defense because it's a passing league. You can't just build a lead by pounding the ball all day and sitting on it while your defense is making stops not with the playmaking/duel threat QB's we see today. We saw a 17 point lead evaporate in the SB last Feb. Every SB has gone down to the wire the past 6 years because of the evolution of the passing game. It's a different game today and even a team with a 2100 yard rusher isn't going to go far if they don't get solid play from their QB in win or go home games.

No spinning anything QB is important and no the game has not changed that much. Hell most of the rules in place are pretty much the same when Aikman played it was not that long ago. Dallas was a complete team granted not many complete teams now but it still takes offense and defense it takes a lot to win it all and it is not just the QB doing it. Yes it is important because he handles the ball every offensive snap and that has never changed in the game of football. As for winning it all there are many different ways to win it all. 9ers and Balt ran quite a bit hell 9ers had the 7th most rushing attempts on the season and the Ravens 12th and defensively 9ers gave up 2nd fewest points while Ravens 12th fewest. So don't spin that non sense. Maybe in your view teams can't run consistently and win but that is your spin not reality. QB's have always been important no matter what decade you played in but it still took offense, defense and special teams to win and it still does.

 

[KJJ]

QB clearly is a important position while they can't win a game by themselfs they can do a lot to lose a game by being careless with the ball.

They can do as much to win a game as they can to lose a game anyone who follows the game knows that. They handle the ball more than any player on the field. Most do or die games come down to QB's having to make a play they can either end up the hero or the goat.

 

[Doomsday101]

They can do as much to win a game as they can to lose a game anyone who follows the game knows that. They handle the ball more than any player on the field. Most do or die games come down to QB's having to make a play they can either end up the hero or the goat.

They can't make the tough catch, hell Flacco got some big bail outs by his WR he did not make the catch someone else did or in your eyes he is credited for throwing a poor ball and getting bailed out? Yes they handle the ball but they don't block, they don't run the routs and they don't catch it others do and when they fail he failes it goes hand in hand. I follow the game at every level understand it very well. Staubach threw a hail mary it was not a great pass it took Pearson going after the ball taking the ball and then making the play. If he fails to do that Rogers pass mean nothing.

 

[KJJ]

No spinning anything QB is important and no the game has not changed that much.

That says it all about your insight into the game.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Sports...-Bowl-era/Players-have-bulked-up-in-a-big-way

 

[dstovall5]

If Romo had 3 SB wins on his resume no one here would be complaining if they said he had 3 SB's would they? Cowboy FANS are upset when everyone talks about Romo's 1-6 elimination game record but they wouldn't be saying a damn thing if he had a 6-1 elimination game record would they? One FAN said the Cowboys 1-6 elimination game record isn't Romo's record it's the teams record but credited Romo with a 5-1 stretch. That says it all about the mindset of Cowboy FANS.

You just claimed that I said the "Cowboys 1-6 elimination game record isn't Romo's record it's the teams record", which that's not even true, don't put a spin on stuff I've previously said because I'vet yet to put a spin on your words.
Here's what I previously stated about the 5-1 stretch ...

Last year after week 9 Dallas was 3-5, to even have a shot at the playoffs we couldn't afford anymore loses(3-6 or 3-7 you're definitely out). That's when our QB led the team to a 5-1 stretch, so no I don't buy into that "1-6 win or go home" non sense. If he doesn't do that, week 15, 16 , and 17 don't even matter because we're out of it. So if you want to make an actual "win or go home record" then add all the games were we had to win (like the 5-1 stretch) to even have a chance at playoffs during week 17. Though I shouldn't expect anything more, it fits your agenda, correct?

Very funny, you just told the above poster to stop putting a "spin" on stuff then you turn around and put a spin on something I said, way to be a hypocritical. Also telling others they have an agenda when you're the one who has an agenda, oh the irony.

 

[Doomsday101]

That says it all about your insight into the game.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Sports...-Bowl-era/Players-have-bulked-up-in-a-big-way

That is just stupid, players were once 250 and guess what they faced guys who were 250. Now lets put it in today perspective the 300 pounder is facing the 300 pounder it still equals out. Sure teams throw more but 7 of the top 11 teams in the NFL in rushing all made the playoffs so the run game still factors in as it always has. If top defense knows you can't run a lick they can sit in dime coverage or put a ton of pressure on the QB and even the Great Peyton Manning will make critical mistakes if there is enough pressure and consistent pressure being applied. The basic principals of the game have not changed that much even with the rule changes.

 

[KJJ]

Hell most of the rules in place are pretty much the same when Aikman played it was not that long ago.

None of the player safety rules that keep being added were around when Aikman played. You don't think some of those rules have benefitted offenses? You have defenders having to think rather than react or they could be subjected to a fine or suspension. There were only 4 QB's during Aikman's entire 13 year career that passed for over 4000 yards. There were 11 QB's last season pass for over 4000 yards including a rookie and one QB passed for over 5000 yards. It's a different game today.

Dallas was a complete team granted not many complete teams now but it still takes offense and defense it takes a lot to win it all and it is not just the QB doing it.

It's hard to put together a real complete team today because of the salary cap and free agency that's another thing that's helped change the game. Again no one is saying it's just the QB get off that spin.

 

[KJJ]

You just claimed that I said the "Cowboys 1-6 elimination game record isn't Romo's record it's the teams record", which that's not even true, don't put a spin on stuff I've previously said because I'vet yet to put a spin on your words.
Here's what I previously stated about the 5-1 stretch ...



Very funny, you just told the above poster to stop putting a "spin" on stuff then you turn around and put a spin on something I said, way to be a hypocritical. Also telling others they have an agenda when you're the one who has an agenda, oh the irony.

I never claimed you said anything I said a FAN you're just assuming things. No one put a spin on anything you said.

 

[Doomsday101]

None of the player safety rules that keep being added were around when Aikman played. You don't think some of those rules have benefitted offenses? You have defenders having to think rather than react or they could be subjected to a fine or suspension. There were only 4 QB's during Aikman's entire 13 year career that passed for over 4000 yards. There were 11 QB's last season pass for over 4000 yards including a rookie and one QB passed for over 5000 yards. It's a different game today.



It's hard to put together a real complete team today because of the salary cap and free agency that's another thing that's helped change the game. Again no one is saying it's just the QB get off that spin.

Some of the safety rules were in the grasp and the interference rules really have not changed you still can't bump beyond 5yards. Passing still means a lot and passing effectively is critical yet a team like the Saints will spend a 1st rd pick on a RB I wounder why I guess their HC is just stupid. It is funny you say I'm spinning about the QB yet all I see from you is it is the QB and it is more than that 1 position if you want to win.