"Win-or-go-home" from a team point of view

[dstovall5]

I never claimed you said anything I said a FAN you're just assuming things. No one put a spin on anything you said.

Such a cop out, you obviously were putting a spin on what I said. No one else mentioned the 5-1 record about Romo in this thread except me, so when you made your little spin post -

"Cowboy FANS are upset when everyone talks about Romo's 1-6 elimination game record but they wouldn't be saying a damn thing if he had a 6-1 elimination game record would they? One FAN said the Cowboys 1-6 elimination game record isn't Romo's record it's the teams record but credited Romo with a 5-1 stretch. That says it all about the mindset of Cowboy FANS."

It's very obvious it's me you were mentioning trying to put a spin on it so it fits your agenda. Honestly I don't see why anyone would continue carrying a conversation with you, because your agenda is very clear, especially after the above post about that "FAN". Have a good day, got better things to do.

 

[KJJ]

That is just stupid, players were once 250 and guess what they faced guys who were 250. Now lets put it in today perspective the 300 pounder is facing the 300 pounder it still equals out. Sure teams throw more but 7 of the top 11 teams in the NFL in rushing all made the playoffs so the run game still factors in as it always has. If top defense knows you can't run a lick they can sit in dime coverage or put a ton of pressure on the QB and even the Great Peyton Manning will make critical mistakes if there is enough pressure and consistent pressure being applied. The basic principals of the game have not changed that much even with the rule changes.

Click on all 16 ways the game has changed from the link. Are you saying the passing game today is the same as what we saw 20 + years ago? Dude wake up the NFL is a pass first league today. I just pointed out that during Aikman's 13 year career there were only 4 QB's that passed for over 4000 yards. We had 11 QB's last season pass for over 4000 yards it's common today. Now we're seeing 5000 yard passers. SB's use to be boring years ago a team would get a 10-14 point lead and sit on it by pounding out first downs and allowing their defense to hold...yawn! The game is more exciting today than ever like I mentioned the last 6 SB's have gone down to the wire.

 

[KJJ]

Such a cop out, you obviously were putting a spin on what I said. No one else mentioned the 5-1 record about Romo in this thread except me, so when you made your little spin post -

"Cowboy FANS are upset when everyone talks about Romo's 1-6 elimination game record but they wouldn't be saying a damn thing if he had a 6-1 elimination game record would they? One FAN said the Cowboys 1-6 elimination game record isn't Romo's record it's the teams record but credited Romo with a 5-1 stretch. That says it all about the mindset of Cowboy FANS."

It's very obvious it's me you were mentioning trying to put a spin on it so it fits your agenda. Honestly I don't see why anyone would continue carrying a conversation with you, because your agenda is very clear, especially after the above post about that "FAN". Have a good day, got better things to do.

Dude I never called "you" out. You just have a bone to pick because I upset you with the baseball example I used for QB's and pitchers. You mentioned Fingers had a losing record but was in the HOF but didn't realize his career 341 saves and league MVP and his 1 win and 2 saves in the World Series is what made his career and got him elected to the HOF.

 

[Doomsday101]

Click on all 16 ways the game has changed from the link. Are you saying the passing game today is the same as what we saw 20 + years ago? Dude wake up the NFL is a pass first league today. I just pointed out that during Aikman's 13 year career there were only 4 QB's that passed for over 4000 yards. We had 11 QB's last season pass for over 4000 yards it's common today. Now we're seeing 5000 yard passers. SB's use to be boring years ago a team would get a 10-14 point lead and sit on it by pounding out first downs and allowing their defense to hold...yawn! The game is more exciting today than ever like I mentioned the last 6 SB's have gone down to the wire.

Never said passing wasn't important but as Belicheck said this past season with so many teams gearing up vs the pass to be able to use the system they are running with the 2 TE sets and be able to get defenses out of the dime and nickel packages by running the ball effectively helps their offense out a lot. If all they did was throw it 50 times a game they are in trouble. So while a break down of run pass leans more to the pass than before it does not change the importance of running effectively can be for an offense. You talk about how many 4,000 yard passing teams there were last year only 4 of them made the post season and none of them went to the SB. lol

I guess NO, Dall and Det should have been fighting it out for the SB since they put up the most yards in passing.

 

[KJJ]

Never said passing wasn't important but as Belicheck said this past season with so many teams gearing up vs the pass to be able to use the system they are running with the 2 TE sets and be able to get defenses out of the dime and nickel packages by running the ball effectively helps their offense out a lot. If all they did was throw it 50 times a game they are in trouble. So while a break down of run pass leans more to the pass than before it does not change the importance of running effectively can be for an offense. You talk about how many 4,000 yard passing teams there were last year only 4 of them made the post season and none of them went to the SB. lol

NE went 17-0 mostly throwing the ball in 07. Brady had 50 TD passes that season. It's when his game started to sputter that it led to the Pats only loss that season in the SB. He only had 6 TD's in the postseason with 4 turnovers. His passer rating during the regular season was 117.2 but only 82.5 in the SB. A lot of what brings a team up or down is the play of their QB. The Cowboys were going nowhere in 06 with Bledsoe at QB but turned things around once Romo got his first start. He excited the fans and the team responded around him until his game started to falter in Dec of that season with 10 turnovers. NFL teams are using multiple TE's in their passing game. Years ago you never saw a TE catch a hundred balls. Offenses are spreading defenses out with multiple receivers, TE's and slot receivers. It's hard to stop the short quick passes to these slot receivers.

 

[KJJ]

I guess NO, Dall and Det should have been fighting it out for the SB since they put up the most yards in passing.

Turnovers are the great neutralizer. Romo had 22 turnovers, Stafford 21 and Brees 20.

 

[KJJ]

You talk about how many 4,000 yard passing teams there were last year only 4 of them made the post season and none of them went to the SB. lol

I mentioned it to point out how much the game has changed from 20 + years ago. You either can't seem to get my point or this is just part of your agenda. I never said making the playoffs and winning championships was about passing yards it's about not turning the ball over and the efficiency of your QB.

 

[superpunk]

It's like when an immovable object runs into some sort of mountain that doesn't understand logic. I guess no mountain does, but still.

 

[percyhoward]

I couldn't possibly disagree with you more. A QB can pretty much make or break you by himself. He is quite simply the most important player on your team.

Why don't you realize that he's also the most important player on your opponent's team?

 

[percyhoward]

Well that couldn't have gone better if you had planned it.

 

[percyhoward]

How about answering my questions instead of avoiding them. I'll try it again if you had the #1 overall pick and had the choice between the highest rated QB in the last decade and the highest rated defensive player in the last decade which player would you pick and why?

The question wasn't "What's the single most important position on the team?" If we were talking about single positions, I'd agree with you.

It was "What's more important: the performance of the QB or the performance of the pass defense?"

Since a QB doesn't perform alone, and since you can't draft a pass defense with one pick anyway, who we would draft with a single pick doesn't answer the question about which performance is more important. My answer to that question is that neither performance is more important than the other.

What say you?

 

[5Stars]

You know that saying , "If 10 people tell you that you are drunk, you better sit down."

Well, this applies to a few posters in this thread, and one especially!

 

[KJJ]

The question wasn't "What's the single most important position on the team?" If we were talking about single positions, I'd agree with you.

It was "What's more important: the performance of the QB or the performance of the pass defense?"

Since a QB doesn't perform alone, and since you can't draft a pass defense with one pick anyway, who we would draft with a single pick doesn't answer the question about which performance is more important. My answer to that question is that neither performance is more important than the other.

What say you?

I've already shown using many examples that a QB's performance is more important than how your pass defense performs. Teams have won many games having poor pass defense performances but you won't find many teams that have won games when their QB has performed poorly. Teams have won games with the opposing QB passing for over 500 yards. It's not the amount of passing yards your defense gives up that can cost you games it's the amount of TD's that result from those passing yards. In 2011 Matt Stafford passed for 5038 yards and 41 TD's resulting in a 10-6 record. In 2012 he passed for 4967 yards which was only 71 fewer than he had in 2011 but in 2012 he only tossed 21 TD's and the lack of scoring was a big part of the reason the Lions ended up 4-12. The Lions lost 8 games in 2012 by 7 points or less. Even though Calvin Johnson had 283 more receiving yards and 26 more catches in 2012 than in 2011 he scored 11 fewer TD's in 2012. Passing yards mean little if they're not leading to TD's. Teams will lose many more games by giving up a lot of rushing yards than they will a lot of passing yards.

Being able to run the ball controls the clock and wears down a defense. Rarely will you see a team lose a game when rushing for 200 + yards. A team is credited with a W/L record just like the QB and HC. A HC doesn't throw a pass, run the football or make a tackle. They don't score a single point but are credited with wins/losses and championships and are judged by their W/L record. Do you have an issue with a HC having a W/L record and being judged by it? Do you have an issue with Vince Lombardi having his name engraved on the SB trophy and not his team that won all those championships? a HC is nothing more than a product of their players primarily their QB. Some teams are a product of their QB. The fate of most HC's lie in the hands of their QB. A QB does more to win games than a HC because they put points on the board. Practically every HOF HC except for Parcells and Joe Gibbs had HOF QB's leading their teams to championships.

Belichick's was just another HC who appeared to be headed for the unemployment line again until Tom Brady became his QB. A teams success is not "all" due to their QB or their HC but they get the most of the credit for wins and losses because a QB's performance and a HC's decisions influence the outcome of games more than any 2 people on a football team. It's ridiculous that so many Cowboy FANS would make such a stink over their QB being credited with a W/L record because it's a losing one when it's always been that way with every QB. They're JUDGED by their W/L record regular season/postseason and the number of championships they have "unless" they're amongst the top 5 all-time passing leaders or have a number of NFL passing records. As I mentioned this thread wouldn't exist if Romo's elimination game record was 6-1 and not 1-6.

 

[percyhoward]

I've already shown using many examples that a QB's performance is more important than how your pass defense performs.

In the examples of QB performance that you gave, how did the opposing defense perform?

 

[KJJ]

In the examples of QB performance that you gave, how did the opposing defense perform?

I've given many examples point out the ones you're referring to?

 

[superpunk]

holy crap it doesn't matter they are the exact same thing. how are you not getting this?

 

[5Stars]

I mentioned it to point out how much the game has changed from 20 + years ago. You either can't seem to get my point or this is just part of your agenda. I never said making the playoffs and winning championships was about passing yards it's about not turning the ball over and the efficiency of your QB.

You always like to break out this "agenda" thing in most of your posts when other posters correct you and you don't like it.

Does Doomsday have an agenda? Does Percyhoward have an agenda? Does dstovall5 have an agenda? The answer is yes, yes and yes. You want to know what their agenda is? To try and understand why the Cowboys are in the position they have been in the last few years. Offense, defense, special teams, coaching, injuries, etc.

You know what your agenda is? Tony Romo, period! The majority of your posts are always centered around Romo and his mistakes in games. You might mention the defense in some posts but that is to disregard the importance of their play. It's got to be Romo in your mind.

So, who's "agenda" is right and who's wrong? Go back through this post and see who agrees with you that Romo is the only player that is important to the success of the team vs. the posters that understand that a win takes the entire team and see the disparity. Perhaps it is time for you to sit down.

 

[percyhoward]

I've given many examples point out the ones you're referring to?

Any of them. You just said, "You won't find many teams that have won games when their QB has performed poorly."

Can you think of even one game in which a team passed poorly against a pass defense that didn't perform well?

If not, then you're saying, "You won't find many teams that have lost games when their pass defense has performed well."

 

[5Stars]

holy crap it doesn't matter they are the exact same thing. how are you not getting this?

Yeah, I just read his last long post and the guy is talking in circles!

 

[KJJ]

Since a QB doesn't perform alone, and since you can't draft a pass defense with one pick anyway, who we would draft with a single pick doesn't answer the question about which performance is more important. My answer to that question is that neither performance is more important than the other.

What say you?

That's not an answer to the question that's dancing around it. A QB doesn't perform a lone and neither does anyone on defense but if you had the #1 overall pick and had the choice between the top rated QB the past decade and the top rated defensive player the past decade who would you pick and why? This is 3rd time I've asked that question and you have yet to provide a direct answer. A great pass rusher like an LT or a great playmaking corner like a Deion Sanders can greatly impact your pass defense. Deion played on 2 championship teams that were being led by HOF QB's. LT won one championship with a QB who had possibly the greatest SB performance in SB history. To me it's a no brainer who you pick if you had a choice between a great QB and a great defender. The Cowboys had that choice in 89 picking Aikman over Derrick Thomas and Deion.