"Win-or-go-home" from a team point of view

[5Stars]

If only Too Tall Jones could have gotten into Joe Montana's face even more.

Now you are getting it! Good job!

A team game.

 

[dstovall5]

Sorry but it's not a fair comparison and I don't just look at the W/L column but a QB's legacy is defined by it in the postseason. I look at a QB's postseason record and how many championships they have.

I do think we have a good enough QB (top 8-12) where if we get our defense/o-line situated we can have post season success, though we may never find out. Hopefully this is the year where everything clicks.

Dude Major League pitchers receive a lot of notoriety and get voted into the HOF for saving games even though they don't get the win. Rollie Fingers had 341 career saves that's what made his career. He won both the American League MVP and Cy Young Award with the Brewers in 1981. He won the 1974 World Series Most Valuable Player Award with one win and two saves. You're making this way too easy for me.

"If it wasn't about wins you would have sub 500 pitchers in the HOF." I'm not the one who made that statement, you said pitcher and as far as I know closers are pitchers as well.

Explain why Romo's 1-6 win or go home record is nonsense but his 5-1 stretch isn't? I've given Romo credit many times for the games he's won but when a QB consistently stinks it up in win or go home games it's going to lead to a stigma that only a championship will help them overcome. Anytime anyone points out the negatives with Romo it's always looked at as an agenda. Everything that's being pointed out about Romo are facts including his 1-6 win or go home record that you call nonsense.

What I'm calling non sense is you're ONLY looking at the 1-6 and completely IGNORING his 5-1 stretch where if we don't go 5-1 there then the season is a lost cause because we're too far out of the race anyway. I honestly don't see how you can't call those big games. Down 3-5, EVERY game onward is a must win game, because once you lose 7 then your chances at a playoff are pretty much OVER. If you honestly can't see this then there's no point in debating any further.

Well I'm glad you think I finally got something right. Maybe not in this thread but some have defended his poor performance in week 17 last season. I'm not one of those who makes it sound like every game the Cowboys lose is 100% his fault it's just spun that way by those who do have an agenda. Washington wouldn't have had as many yards rushing had their offense not got extra opportunities to pound the ball due to Romo's 3 turnovers. I blame Romo and the defense for that loss both played awful.

Defense was banged up all year, that's just what happens when you have key players hurt. As for Romo, I was shocked just as much as anyone else because leading up to that week he was lights out pretty much all through out the late half of the season (though he had a down year for his standards). Though I don't have unrealistic expectations for Romo like some , I know he's due a couple bad games every year just like every QB in this league.

The thing with Romo though, every time he has a bad game/mistake it's magnified greatly because he doesn't have a good supporting cast (Defense/O-Line/Rushing Offense). You'll see with other QBs they can have piss poor games and still get away with a W because they actually have help. Must be nice to have a defense that can get take aways and an offensive line who doesn't get obliterated every other play.

Also I'm by no means a Tony Romo homer. I don't think he's a top 5 QB, but I also don't think he's a scrub. Which honestly you'd think he was with the way some "fans" here talk about him. I think Dallas is pretty lucky to have him at the helm, but I guess I'm just a homer as some would say.

 

[KJJ]

"If it wasn't about wins you would have sub 500 pitchers in the HOF." I'm not the one who made that statement, you said pitcher and as far as I know closers are pitchers as well.

With "starting" pitchers it's about wins and if a pitcher doesn't have more wins than losses they better have a lot of saves. You mentioned Fingers and all you brought up was his W/L record failing to realize he had 341 saves which is the reason he's in the HOF. He also had a Worlds Series MVP on his resume. Can't believe I'm talking baseball. lol

 

[dstovall5]

With "starting" pitchers it's about wins and if a pitcher doesn't have more wins than losses they better have a lot of saves. You mentioned Fingers and all you brought up was his W/L record failing to realize he had 341 saves which is the reason he's in the HOF. He also had a Worlds Series MVP on his resume. Can't believe I'm talking baseball. lol

I brought up his W/L because isn't that the only thing that matters.
Lol anyways lets get off the baseball stuff, especially since football is 1 day away! Wooohoo TC!

 

[KJJ]

What I'm calling non sense is you're ONLY looking at the 1-6 and completely IGNORING his 5-1 stretch where if we don't go 5-1 there then the season is a lost cause because we're too far out of the race anyway. I honestly don't see how you can't call those big games. Down 3-5, EVERY game onward is a must win game, because once you lose 7 then your chances at a playoff are pretty much OVER. If you honestly can't see this then there's no point in debating any further.

This thread is about the Cowboys 1-6 win or go home record. All NFL games are important when you only have 16 of them in a season and although Romo is impressive throughout most of the regular season he lays an egg when it matters most. He's an excellent QB until it's all on the line. His 12 turnovers in his 6 win or go home losses are proof positive that he can't handle do or die pressure. When a QB turns the ball over 12 times in 6 elimination game losses that has to be looked at as one of the primary reasons their team keeps losing. Agree or disagree?

Nothing will destroy a teams chances of winning an elimination game like turnovers especially on the road. When it's win or go home that's when you find out the true makeup of a QB. Those are the games where QB's earn their stripes. Going on a 5-1 stretch during the regular season only to end up folding in the game that has a playoff birth and the division title on the line isn't going to earn a QB respect. It's about winning playoff games and SB's that's what earns QB's respect.

 

[KJJ]

I brought up his W/L because isn't that the only thing that matters.
Lol anyways lets get off the baseball stuff, especially since football is 1 day away! Wooohoo TC!

You focused on his W/L record never even mentioning his saves when it was his 341 career saves that got him voted into the HOF. Yes let's do get off baseball it was my fault for bringing it up in the first place.

 

[dstovall5]

This thread is about the Cowboys 1-6 win or go home record. All NFL games are important when you only have 16 of them in a season and although Romo is impressive throughout most of the regular season he lays an egg when it matters most. He's an excellent QB until it's all on the line. His 12 turnovers in his 6 win or go home losses are proof positive that he can't handle do or die pressure. When a QB turns the ball over 12 times in 6 elimination game losses that has to be looked at as one of the primary reasons their team keeps losing. Agree or disagree?

Nothing will destroy a teams chances of winning an elimination game like turnovers especially on the road. When it's win or go home that's when you find out the true makeup of a QB. Those are the games where QB's earn their stripes. Going on a 5-1 stretch during the regular season only to end up folding in the game that has a playoff birth and the division title on the line isn't going to earn a QB respect. It's about winning playoff games and SB's that's what earns QB's respect.

I started really getting into Football around 2009 and that's when I first became a Dallas fan, so I'm sure I missed some of those "win or go home" games... Thankfully. I can't really speak on those earlier games, but if I had to guess I'm sure those interceptions where due to Romo trying to do too much. I mean it's just who he is, a gun slinger. By being a gun slinger he makes incredible plays where you think, "how the heck did he just do that!", but then there's the other side of that. The WR will be fully covered and Romo will try to force the ball and it ends up getting picked. It's no secret that Romo needs to protect the ball better, he needs to find a way to keep the good Tony and lose the other one. Though, I honestly do think when/if we ever get a better supporting cast, it will help reduce some of his Interceptions because it will take some of the load/pressure off of him.

 

[KJJ]

I started really getting into Football around 2009 and that's when I first became a Dallas fan, so I'm sure I missed some of those "win or go home" games... Thankfully. I can't really speak on those earlier games, but if I had to guess I'm sure those interceptions where due to Romo trying to do too much. I mean it's just who he is, a gun slinger. By being a gun slinger he makes incredible plays where you think, "how the heck did he just do that!", but then there's the other side of that. The WR will be fully covered and Romo will try to force the ball and it ends up getting picked. It's no secret that Romo needs to protect the ball better, he needs to find a way to keep the good Tony and lose the other one. Though, I honestly do think when/if we ever get a better supporting cast, it will help reduce some of his Interceptions because it will take some of the load/pressure off of him.

I've been following football and the Cowboys since 1971. If you've only been following the team and the game since 09 you obviously don't know the game as well as some of us and you don't feel the frustration that a lot of us do who watched the team win 5 championships. You never saw Staubach or Aikman play they're the standards that Romo has to live up to or he'll be looked at in the same light as Danny White who was another good QB who couldn't get it done when it mattered most. Romo can make some incredible plays and he can also make some incredibly bad plays that's what's concerning about him. He's a poor man's Brett Favre and Favre only won one championship despite all his NFL passing records. Favre's many ill-timed turnovers cost his teams several championship opportunities in his 20 year career. If it wasn't for Bledsoe another turnover machine who coughed it up 4 times in the SB Favre would have never won a championship. A lot of the same problems we saw with Romo in 06 we still see today. When he gets into a turnover funk they keep coming he has trouble settling down.

Once he makes a mistake in a big game he starts to lose his poise and the turnovers mount. He starts forcing throws into coverage and it's downhill from there. The Cowboys are never going to be good enough to overcome his turnovers. Turnovers can do in the best teams. One critical mistake by Eli or Flacco probably would have cost the Giants and Ravens the opportunity to win the last 2 SB's. Both teams weren't all that good but they got outstanding play from their QB in the playoffs and SB. Eli only had 2 turnovers in his 8 postseason wins that included 2 SB wins. Flacco had an 11-0 TD to turnover ratio last season in the playoffs. Romo will never get the Cowboys over the hump if he doesn't stop turning the ball over so much. It's impossible to win elimination games with 12 turnovers by your QB 0-6 says it all!

 

[KJJ]

Romo has the talent to win a ring his issues are between the ears. He has to rid himself of the demons to be the QB he's capable of being when it's down to do or die.

 

[dstovall5]

Eli and Flacco did elevate their plays during their SB runs, but so did their team in the playoffs. It's all about who's the hottest going into the playoffs and that giants team was on fire. Also the giants were very fortunate for that first Super Bowl win, though props to them for pulling it out. Flacco has been very fortunate to come into the league with the Ravens, and he's been the one holding that team back until recently. I've never QB before but I can imagine it's a lot easier to do so with a good defense and run game. I honestly think what's also helped him out is his team constantly making the playoffs, eventually you'd get more comfortable and start performing better, like he did. That's also why I don't buy the Romo can't succeed in the playoffs, it took Flacco 7 playoff games before it clicked, maybe Romo is the same?

Also for the heck of it, here's Flacco first 7 playoff games.

W/L score c-a yds td-int rating

W 27-9 9-23 135 0-0 59.1 MIA
W 13-10 11-22 161 1-0 89.4 TEN
L 14-23 13-30 141 0-3 18.2 PIT
W 33-14 4-10 34 0-1 10.0 NWE
L 3-20 20-35 189 0-2 48.4 IND
W 30-7 25-34 265 2-0 115.4 KAN
L 24-31 22-36 125 1-1 61.1 PIT

And you think Romo has been bad in "win or go home" games LOL! Ohh man I'm sure Romo would love to throw for a 10 rating and still come out with a W. Sadly that will never happen, even when Romo plays good we still lose games. Man what a difference a good supporting cast makes, yes? Also funny thing is Flacco went 4-3 with that play, if Romo played like that we'd be lucky to go 1-6.

And yes that's the same Flacco that just won the Super Bowl. He just had the luxury to play in a ton of play off games which allowed him to get more and more comfortable.

Also was fun debating with yah! Gotta get up early tommorrow so hitting the hay.

 

[KJJ]

Eli and Flacco did elevate their plays during their SB runs, but so did their team in the playoffs. It's all about who's the hottest going into the playoffs and that giants team was on fire. Also the giants were very fortunate for that first Super Bowl win, though props to them for pulling it out. Flacco has been very fortunate to come into the league with the Ravens, and he's been the one holding that team back until recently. I've never QB before but I can imagine it's a lot easier to do so with a good defense and run game. I honestly think what's also helped him out is his team constantly making the playoffs, eventually you'd get more comfortable and start performing better, like he did. That's also why I don't buy the Romo can't succeed in the playoffs, it took Flacco 7 playoff games before it clicked, maybe Romo is the same?

Also for the heck of it, here's Flacco first 7 playoff games.

W/L score c-a yds td-int rating

W 27-9 9-23 135 0-0 59.1 MIA
W 13-10 11-22 161 1-0 89.4 TEN
L 14-23 13-30 141 0-3 18.2 PIT
W 33-14 4-10 34 0-1 10.0 NWE
L 3-20 20-35 189 0-2 48.4 IND
W 30-7 25-34 265 2-0 115.4 KAN
L 24-31 22-36 125 1-1 61.1 PIT

And you think Romo has been bad in "win or go home" games LOL! Ohh man I'm sure Romo would love to throw for a 10 rating and still come out with a W. Sadly that will never happen, even when Romo plays good we still lose games. Man what a difference a good supporting cast makes, yes? Also funny thing is Flacco went 4-3 with that play, if Romo played like that we'd be lucky to go 1-6.

And yes that's the same Flacco that just won the Super Bowl. He just had the luxury to play in a ton of play off games which allowed him to get more and more comfortable.

Also was fun debating with yah! Gotta get up early tommorrow so hitting the hay.

Winning a SB is all about timing and getting hot at the right time is the key. A big reason the Giants and Ravens elevated their play was the play of their QB's. Teams only go as far as their QB's take them. In 07 Eli had 27 turnovers during the regular season and only 1 turnover during the playoffs and SB. He raised the level of his play while the Giants defense came on. Their D wouldn't have been good enough to defend his turnovers it was proven during the regular season that year. The Giants got mauled by Minn in week 12 41-17 due to 4 Eli turnovers. In 2011 Eli really stepped his game up and was much more productive during the regular season and postseason than he was in 2007. The Giants had an up and down team similar to the Cowboys so Eli had to carry the Giants at times.

He set an NFL record for 4th quarter TD's bringing the Giants from behind several times including against the Cowboys in their first meeting. As for Flacco he went from a bus driver to a very productive QB in the playoffs last season. The Ravens had much better teams a few years ago but Flacco held them back. He was able to win a playoff game with a 10.0 passer rating in 09 completing only 4-10 passes because he was being carried by an outstanding Ravens defense. The following week he turned the ball over twice when the game was on his shoulders vs Indy and the Ravens were easily beaten in the AFC title game. Flacco's had 8 turnovers in his 4 road playoff losses during his first 4 seasons.

The Ravens just won a SB with a team that wasn't as good as their teams that lost back to back title games in 08 and 09 because Flacco was so much better. He went from a bus driver to a QB who could carry a team. His production in the playoffs last season would have put him on pace for almost 4600 yards and 44 TD's in a 16 game regular season. What we've seen with Eli and Flacco during their championship runs is what we're going to have to see with Romo if the Cowboys are going to have any chance of winning a championship with him. He's going to have to play to the level we see in some of his best regular season games. He's going to have to be efficient, put up big numbers and not turn the ball over.

 

[IrishAnto]

If only Too Tall Jones could have gotten into Joe Montana's face even more.

If only Romo had a Dwight Clark.

 

[KJJ]

If only Romo had a Dwight Clark.

He has receivers who are a lot better. Clark made one memorable catch he was an average receiver.

 

[percyhoward]

Where would the Pats, Packers, Giants and several other teams have been in 2011 and 2012 if their QB's had average seasons? Do you think the Giants in 2011 and the Ravens in 2012 would have won the SB with average postseason performances by Eli and Flacco?

You can't assume all teams are equal except for the QB.

Avg rank in Rushing TD/Defensive Passer Rating 2011-12
Ravens 10th 6th 1st 11th (7th)
Pats 3rd 1st 20th 17th (11th)
Giants 6th 5th 21st 20th (13th)
Packers 16th 25th 9th 4th (14th)

Cowboys 30th 25th 25th 29th (27th)

 

[KJJ]

You can't assume all teams are equal except for the QB.

Avg rank in Rushing TD/Defensive Passer Rating 2011-12
Ravens 10th 6th 1st 11th (7th)
Pats 3rd 1st 20th 17th (11th)
Giants 6th 5th 21st 20th (13th)
Packers 16th 25th 9th 4th (14th)

Cowboys 30th 25th 25th 29th (27th)

None of the teams I mentioned would be the same if their QB's had average seasons. If Flacco had an average postseason the Ravens would have never even reached the SB.

 

[percyhoward]

None of the teams I mentioned would be the same if their QB's had average seasons.

And again, none of those teams compare to the Cowboys.

 

[5Stars]

You can't assume all teams are equal except for the QB.

Avg rank in Rushing TD/Defensive Passer Rating 2011-12
Ravens 10th 6th 1st 11th (7th)
Pats 3rd 1st 20th 17th (11th)
Giants 6th 5th 21st 20th (13th)
Packers 16th 25th 9th 4th (14th)

Cowboys 30th 25th 25th 29th (27th)

You done yet?

 

[KJJ]

And again, none of those teams compare to the Cowboys.

The 2011 Giants compared with the Cowboys and that's one of the years you mentioned. That Giants team was 7-7 at one point and was as up and down as the Cowboys that year. Had Eli not set an NFL record for 4th quarter TD passes bringing the Giants from behind several times that team would have never even made the playoffs much less win the SB.

 

[percyhoward]

The 2011 Giants compared with the Cowboys and that's one of the years you mentioned. That Giants team was 7-7 at one point and was as up and down as the Cowboys that year. Had Eli not set an NFL record for 4th quarter TD passes bringing the Giants from behind several times that team would have never even made the playoffs much less win the SB.

No, even boiling it down to one season, the 2011 Giants did not compare to the 2011 Cowboys.

Red Zone Passer Rating
Romo 105.9
Eli 75.9

Red Zone Rushing TD
Dallas 4
Giants 18

FG attempts
Dallas 7th
Giants 28th

Red Zone Scoring Percentage
Dallas 20th
Giants 9th

Scoring
Dallas 15th
Giants 7th

 

[KJJ]

No, even boiling it down to one season, the 2011 Giants did not compare to the 2011 Cowboys.

Red Zone Passer Rating
Romo 105.9
Eli 75.9

Red Zone Rushing TD
Dallas 4
Giants 18

FG attempts
Dallas 7th
Giants 28th

Red Zone Scoring Percentage
Dallas 20th
Giants 9th

Scoring
Dallas 15th
Giants 7th

They did compare you're like Adam too bogged down by stats that mean little. Answer the question would the Giants have won the SB in 2011 with average play by Eli?