Win the trenches and you can win in any era

[Beaker42]

Never bother to listen to Jerry at all. Do study along with folks like Chris Simms shows, Football Outsiders, PFF, Bret Kollmann, etc.

Where are your big trench teams? Rams were #1 defense...how'd that work out w/Green Bay? Oh, they gave up 484 yards and 32 points? So that's your idea of rendering an offense irrelevant?

Not to stick up for ksk but he knows his stuff. He studies more than I breathe.

 

[Beaker42]

You mean Cowboys fans won't know... or have any idea who Juan Thornhill or Charvus Ward are …..??

Yeah, we know but the guys in charge of doing that for the Cowboys we’re watching porn instead of game tape.

 

[Vanilla2]

Can we win the defensive side of the trenches for a while

 

[kskboys]

Vita was out injured while KC clinched the playoffs and won 3 consecutive playoff games to push them to the Super Bowl. Would they be where they are w/out Mahomes? Hill? Kelce?

Of course you want talent all over your roster, but the most essential is QB and elite receiving weapons.

Receiving weapons are useless w/ strong trenches.

This has already been proven. Over and over again.

Vea is on TB.

Soooo, since Nnadi wasn't out while KC clinched the playoffs and won 3 consecutive games and that was your point, it appears you're admitting how important NT is. Thanks, I knew you'd come around.

Oh, and speaking of KC, they absolutely do not win the super bowl w/o DT Chris Jones. All those weapons couldn't do crap for 3 qtrs or so, and then only were able to come back due to D stands led by......KC's trenches. Dang, not so useless after all!!!!

 

[fivetwos]

If you "trenches-dominate-football" folks are going to even make this debate interesting...You MUST answer me this.

How do Chief get to Super Bowl with this offensive line?!?
Allegretti 7th round pick $580k
Reiter 7th round pick $ 2.2 mil
Wylie Undrafted $750k
Remmers Undrafted. $1.1 mil
Wisniewski Steelers waived, Chiefs claimed in November. $1 mil

These guys succeed because the Chiefs almost never try to maul opponents in the run (misdirection, traps, reverses), and in pass protection they don't have to do much! Mahomes gets the ball out fast, or he's rolling out, dodging, etc.

Nice post.

And what do we do??

Spend tons of high picks on OL and a RB, pay them a ton of money....then throw 50 times a game.

And people attempt to argue this franchise has a direction and half of a clue.

 

[kskboys]

Nice post.

And what do we do??

Spend tons of high picks on OL and a RB, pay them a ton of money....then throw 50 times a game.

And people attempt to argue this franchise has a direction and half of a clue.

As much as I value the trenches, even I think it's foolish to have to spend that many picks on the OL. Those picks were necessary due to previously ignoring the OL, BTW. And some really dumb OL picks.

 

[817Gill]

Way early for that - gotta give him 2 seasons+ Like we have Hill. Steeper learning curve for D players than O players.

I’ll give him time for sure, but at the end of the day he was a project pick. A guy who you hope in 3 years is a pro-bowl caliber pass rusher.

I take a guaranteed impact player over a project with my first round pick any day.

 

[T-RO]

Nice post.

And what do we do??

Spend tons of high picks on OL and a RB, pay them a ton of money....then throw 50 times a game.

And people attempt to argue this franchise has a direction and half of a clue.

There are different formulas. I think it starts by not only having good coaches, but wizard coaches.

If you don't have an incredibly mobile QB, you better have some good players along the o-line. The formula to build a team around Brady is different, for sure, than the formula to build a team around Mahomes.

 

[basel90]

What I saw today was two teams that were able to contain a ground game, play extra men in coverage and frustrate two future, hall of fame QB's. The difference was Tampa Bay was able to generate consistent pressure with their front four, where Green Bay could not. It's that simple, win the trenches, win the game!

Certainly it doesn't help when you have a bonehead HC not going for it down 8 late in the game inside the 10 nor a CB who has no understanding of time getting beat beat at the end of the half.

I don't want to hear people complain when the team doesn't make the exciting, wow pick at 10 this year and takes another offensive lineman or defensive lineman in rd 1 and a two down run DT in rd two. Someone said recently, can you name the starting secondary for the Washington Football Team? Not many can and they are one of the best defenses in the entire league due to their front 4.

Very true and has been the case . Can anyone remember any star CB from the famous 85 bears ??? Nope . It is the trenches .

 

[T-RO]

Receiving weapons are useless w/ strong trenches.

This has already been proven. Over and over again.

Declarations are the weakest form of debate.

Here is what NFL GM's look at in terms of positional value. WAR = Wins over replacement. Money, draft picks and big contracts flow to quarterbacks first and receivers second. Why? Because the league has studied it long and hard and learned that's where games are won.

On the defensive side the playmakers in the secondary provide the biggest value.

If you want to dispute what I say, fine. But be quite mindful you are disputing the ruling logic of NFL GM's, analysts, draft and contract gurus.

 

[T-RO]

Very true and has been the case . Can anyone remember any star CB from the famous 85 bears ??? Nope . It is the trenches .

If you are making conclusions based on something from 35 years ago...

Classic team, btw. Classic era. But rules and trends have changed the game A LOT.

 

[T-RO]

The amazing 1985 Bears defense went into the playoffs. How did they do?

They gave up
0 points Divisional
0 points in NFC championship
10 points in Super Bowl

An interesting thing happened earlier that season in December. That Bears team faced a force ahead of it's time. Dan Marino, Marc Clayton and Mark Duper.

How did the monsters of the midway, the tyrants of the trenches do?
Marino and company put 31 points on the Bear's ***** by halftime.

 

[basel90]

If you are making conclusions based on something from 35 years ago...

Classic team, btw. Classic era. But rules and trends have changed the game A LOT.

Yes the game has evolved a bit into a passing frenzy and there is major protection of the QB and receivers which plays a big part indeed . However, if you have a dominating defensive front that gets to the QB quickly, you are not going to lose many games .

 

[StuckMojo]

You don't seem to know how Arians and Brady work the offense. Tom is the *furthest* thing from a bus driver in the NFL. Complete opposite of dink and dunk. Same was true in Green Bay game. Brady was throwing *down *the *field.

One thing that makes Brady so great is how he can hit receivers/backs in stride on short/medium routes

 

[blueblood70]

trenches and run game- this was a response to a moved or deleted ES post about zeke and didnt want to waste it LOL but its fact that our decline started when we changed our offense and that starts in the trenches and run game..

well one fact i know is this Zekes not done and many actual experts think this..

1. EE has had his peak years for sure and with KM at the helm and defense that gives up points the run game will never be our identity unless something changes quickly..

2. EE was not the player this place tries to say is done, sucks, should be cut or traded, 2020 was lost year in the OL, qb, and many other facets of our team and he not only had c19 in the offseason but two leg injuries' and powered through them.no freaking way this is who zeke has become, this i know.. 2019 maybe depends a lot on #1 above what will KM do with the run game, it needs help , he falt out uses outdated run plays most nfl teams would give FB, add staying into block more then any back in the league , i mean sure he look's like great fb now but its not his fault hes being ran into the dirt by his OC and his defense etc..

3.I still see a lot of flashes of good to great zeke and this will be more of who he is now ie check 2019 and being relative top 5 is all we need but the way hes used is Key.. they need to use an actual FB more to block, pollard more as reliver but in passing situations, take some of the highest on field % of use for offensive playing in the league from an aging zeke so hes fresher./it was freaking ridiculous how he was used in 2020 and it started in 2019..

4.lastly this is not zekes fault that 2016-2018 he was the identity and got paid to be EE, and hes not being utilized, hes volume back that can carry the load, win TOP, wear down defense but between the OC and the defense add in the OL injuries' in 2020, no way he can ever be that zeke regardless of speed and burst, he doesnt need that , that was a bonus but he for sure can be relative.. odd we built this team to be zekes with dak feeding off that and compliment a pass happy playing from behind all the time team..

this is NOT on EE and he cant be constantly destroyed by hater fans who claim hes done and being paid far too much..

better look at coaching and team efficiency the last 2 years where like some posts that are being discussed, we have broken rudder on this team the last 18months and no true identity and direction..EE was our anchor, the OL was our Identity, this is not zeke issue and hes has plenty left. its been weird last couple of offseason and hopefully a real plan is paid in lace to get on track..

outside of the 2 bad games with 4 fumbles , I still say zeke has plenty left and can be the identity and would benefit all to use a fb, Pollard , zeke to get the offense and defense grounded again, pun intended.. Not saying Dak and those Wrs cant exploits the defenses they play but you set it up with the run game.. bring back more play action.

i mean even teams like SF and Rams use this philosophy and to larger extent , the Titans..

i believe ES is correct in one thing Zekes not done by long shot and his contract says he will be here a while..

so fans calm down and open your eyes, the blame is not EE for his apparent surface decline. Sorry haters, its not.

 

[Chuck 54]

What I saw today was two teams that were able to contain a ground game, play extra men in coverage and frustrate two future, hall of fame QB's. The difference was Tampa Bay was able to generate consistent pressure with their front four, where Green Bay could not. It's that simple, win the trenches, win the game!

Certainly it doesn't help when you have a bonehead HC not going for it down 8 late in the game inside the 10 nor a CB who has no understanding of time getting beat beat at the end of the half.

I don't want to hear people complain when the team doesn't make the exciting, wow pick at 10 this year and takes another offensive lineman or defensive lineman in rd 1 and a two down run DT in rd two. Someone said recently, can you name the starting secondary for the Washington Football Team? Not many can and they are one of the best defenses in the entire league due to their front 4.

I only needed to read the title.....YES!

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

The reason why Green Bay lost, was nothing to due about Rodgers, his line just couldn't hold up against their front 4

Looked like he missed some key passes from what I saw.

 

[Shane612]

That's why Jimmy Johnson, and other good coaches, build their team inside -> out.

 

[KB1122]

Classic team, btw. Classic era. But rules and trends have changed the game A LOT.

They've stayed the same a lot, too.

 

[KB1122]

We've had a great offensive line for the past few years. How many championships have we won?