Twitter: Wins Are All That Matters

[G2]

We’ll see what these additions bring. But yea, with not having a 1st round pick definitely limited an impact in draft . I still think we’re going to miss Irving and Gregory. DL is one of my biggest concerns.

I'm actually thinking we'll be in better shape this season. There's some hope at least.

 

[Diehardblues]

I'm actually thinking we'll be in better shape this season. There's some hope at least.

IDK why we think this group will add more than Gregory or Irving although he missed most of last year. Will Lawrence be his old self after surgery?And why DL is my biggest concern.

If our DL doesn’t put the pressure on up front causing havoc then it’s going to have a ripple effect throughout. Maybe our LB’s will rise up filling the gap which is where our Elite talent appears to be now on defense.

But what if our defense isn’t Top 10 this year. It will put more pressure on offense to carry us. I’m not sure that’s a good thing. Our offense has to be improved this year from 22nd. Just has to be.

I’m hopeful it will be assuming we get Cooper signed from the getgo, Elliott isn’t suspended, Freddy returns to his Pro Bowl self and Witten adds something.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I think for his 2016 season and then when they added Cooper in 2018, he had a pretty to really good receiving group. Great or one of the best in the league? Of course not. But let's not act like for three years he's been throwing to drek.

But he has been lol. When we added Cooper yes. The receiving core became adequate. But mind you that was probably one of the worst receiving cores in the league prior to that. Off the top I can only think of the Bills having a worse receiving group. I just can't take a team serious who goes into the season with Cole Beasley and Allen Hurns as their best receivers.

By 2016 we all came to grips that Dez was no longer a #1 in this league. Yet, he was our best receiver on the team.

I won't say the 2016 group was dog poo but I'd have a hard time saying it was top 15.

Responding to your post..

“Second most wins means nothing when you have new coaches every few years.”

Cowboys haven’t had new coaches every few years. At least not with Dak. Did I misinterpret your meaning?

Well I thought you said Garrett was 2nd in franchise wins. I was bringing up most guys didn't stay here very long. It was Landry....Jimmy didn't stay long and had to suffer threw a rebuild. After that its a long list of has beens and never was. If Garrett wasn't 2nd in wins that would be ridiculous. He's been here longer than most.

 

[G2]

IDK why we think this group will add more than Gregory or Irving although he missed most of last year. Will Lawrence be his old self after surgery?And why DL is my biggest concern.

If our DL doesn’t put the pressure on up front causing havoc then it’s going to have a ripple effect throughout. Maybe our LB’s will rise up filling the gap which is where our Elite talent appears to be now on defense.

But what if our defense isn’t Top 10 this year. It will put more pressure on offense to carry us. I’m not sure that’s a good thing. Our offense has to be improved this year from 22nd. Just has to be.

I’m hopeful it will be assuming we get Cooper signed from the getgo, Elliott isn’t suspended, Freddy returns to his Pro Bowl self and Witten adds something.

To add to that, we've been so reliant on the offense in the past with Romo, that we are just now getting the defense strong. But Prescott and the offense can't always rely on the defense. they simply have to start out stronger. Come from wins are great, but I don't like to make a habit of it.

 

[Blackspider214]

When you have to point to wins alone to defend a QB you know you have a fraud player because wins is a team stat and there should be aspects to that QB's play that lead to those wins. Otherwise he's just along for the ride.

Prescott is a fraud and the moment he signs that contract he will be the most overpaid player in the history of the NFL. He positively impacts nothing. He makes nobody around him better. He must be carried.

I can't wait until he signs to see your head explode. This forum would be better off if his signing caused you to go root for someone else. You are terrible.

 

[Diehardblues]

To add to that, we've been so reliant on the offense in the past with Romo, that we are just now getting the defense strong. But Prescott and the offense can't always rely on the defense. they simply have to start out stronger. Come from wins are great, but I don't like to make a habit of it.

Yea , we can get away with that against lesser opponents during regular season but come playoff time that’s been our Achilles heal in both playoff losses in 2016 and 2018. Getting off to very slow starts offensively needing a heroic comeback without a defense that can make critical stops.

 

[Sydla]

But he has been lol. When we added Cooper yes. The receiving core became adequate. But mind you that was probably one of the worst receiving cores in the league prior to that. Off the top I can only think of the Bills having a worse receiving group. I just can't take a team serious who goes into the season with Cole Beasley and Allen Hurns as their best receivers.

By 2016 we all came to grips that Dez was no longer a #1 in this league. Yet, he was our best receiver on the team.

I won't say the 2016 group was dog poo but I'd have a hard time saying it was top 15.


Well I thought you said Garrett was 2nd in franchise wins. I was bringing up most guys didn't stay here very long. It was Landry....Jimmy didn't stay long and had to suffer threw a rebuild. After that its a long list of has beens and never was. If Garrett wasn't 2nd in wins that would be ridiculous. He's been here longer than most.

He was not throwing to drek for all three years. He had more than adequate weapons in 2016 and half of 2018, for sure. And not surprisingly, that's when he was most effective. He was an average to substandard QB when he didn't have good enough players around him. Which kind of supports the point that Dak is more bus driver than QB who makes people around him better.

 

[Diehardblues]

He was not throwing to drek for all three years. He had more than adequate weapons in 2016 and half of 2018, for sure. And not surprisingly, that's when he was most effective. He was an average to substandard QB when he didn't have good enough players around him. Which kind of supports the point that Dak is more bus driver than QB who makes people around him better.

Yep

And Bus Drivers need to be paid too. Just not Top 5 money. I’d rank Dakster a little above the average Bus Driver. He brings some intangible assets despite his passing flaws.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

He was not throwing to drek for all three years. He had more than adequate weapons in 2016 and half of 2018, for sure. And not surprisingly, that's when he was most effective. He was an average to substandard QB when he didn't have good enough players around him. Which kind of supports the point that Dak is more bus driver than QB who makes people around him better.

Let's take a look at what other quarterbacks in the league had who are considered good quarterbacks.

In 2016,

Aaron Rodgers
Randall Cobb, Davante Adams and Jordy Nelson.

Ben Roethlisberger
Antonio Brown......Leveon Bell was a big part of the passing game.

Matt Ryan
Sanu, Julio, Gabriel...Coleman and Freeman were big parts of the passing game as well.

Kirk Cousins

Desean Jackson, Garcon and Jordan Reed.

Brady
Gronkowski, Bennett, Edelman, Hogan....James White was a big part of the passing game.

Palmer
Fitzgerald, Brown, Floyd, Nelson and Johnson.

Brees
Brandon Cooks, Michael Thomas, Willie Snead.....

Stafford
Boldin, Tate, Jones and Ebron

Rivers
Williams, Inman, Benjamin, Gates and Henry...(Allen got hurt)





I just posted the top 10 quarterbacks in 2016......let's go a little further and see who cracked the top 15.

Russell Wilson
Jimmy Graham, Doug Baldwin, Tyler Lockett, Richardson

Andy Dalton
AJ Green, Lafell, Boyd, Eifert

Flacco

Steve Smith, Mike Wallace, Pitta, Perriman

Carr

Cooper and Crabtree

Bradford
Thielen, Diggs and Rudolph

So this is the top 15 passing offenses that year and I don't see one I wouldn't take over Witten, Dez and Terrence Williams.



Mind you......I didn't even get to the Bucc's, Giants or Bronco's.......

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Yep

And Bus Drivers need to be paid too. Just not Top 5 money. I’d rank Dakster a little above the average Bus Driver. He brings some intangible assets despite his passing flaws.

The term "bus driver" is a myth. You can't even win games in today's league as a bus driver. There aren't any Trent Dilfer's running around in this league and having success.

 

[Diehardblues]

The term "bus driver" is a myth. You can't even win games in today's league as a bus driver. There aren't any Trent Dilfer's running around in this league and having success.

It’s definitely tougher no doubt . Many terms like these are mythical. Elite is another one of those terms. Lol

 

[Roadtrip635]

When you have to point to wins alone to defend a QB you know you have a fraud player because wins is a team stat and there should be aspects to that QB's play that lead to those wins. Otherwise he's just along for the ride.

Prescott is a fraud and the moment he signs that contract he will be the most overpaid player in the history of the NFL. He positively impacts nothing. He makes nobody around him better. He must be carried.

The most overpaid player in the history of the NFL has and will always be Sam Bradford.

 

[OmerV]

I don't think it does. The tweet that was posted showed that Tim Tebow has a better winning percentage than Phillip Rivers. Hopefully, no one here would argue that Tebow is a better quarterback than Rivers, or even close.

So if Tebow has a better winning percentage and is a worse QB, then wouldn't it stand to reason that no matter what Prescott's winning percentage is, he could be a worse QB than others? The point defeats any post that uses winning percentage as an argument for the quality of the quarterback.

I believe the point of the OP is that winning percentage doesn't equate to good quarterbacking, so I can't see how the point works against the OP by pointing out Dak's winning percentage.

Maybe I'm missing something here in what you are saying. My belief stands, though: Winning percentage should not be used to judge quarterbacks. You say it's "not the only thing to look at." I say, don't use it at all because the quality of the team as a whole is going to determine winning percentage, not just the quarterback.

Would Dak have gone 13-3 if he had been drafted by the San Francisco 49ers? Absolutely not. Would the 49ers have finished better than 2-14 that year? Maybe. Does that mean that Prescott didn't play a part in Dallas going 13-3? Absolutely not, and he deserves credit for playing well.

Hmmm - I took the OP as showing that Tebow and Rivers both had good winning percentages like Dak, but after reading your post and going back and looking at the OP I think you are right that the intent was just to compare Tebow's winning %, as a lesser QB, to Rivers winning %, as a better QB.

But the flaw with using Tebow is sample size. He has an 8-6 record - 14 games over 3 years. Stats are meaningless without at least some reasonable sample size to judge from, and Tebow never even QB'd a team for a full season.

In the end, while I don't think winning % is a stand alone view of a QB, I still think it is a relevant factor in judging QBs because the QB is the leader and the decision maker and he is in the position most able to influence the outcome of games because he has reads and choices to make that no other player does. It transcends mere stats.

Your last sentence is very true. Not all situations are the same, and that is really the flaw in using winning % as a stand alone factor. It needs to be used only as A factor, not THE factor.

 

[percyhoward]

That kind of inability to see anything but extremes makes a person's opinion worthless.

But it's so easy to express, and so easy to understand.

That's gotta count for something, right?

 

[Diehardblues]

The most overpaid player in the history of the NFL has and will always be Sam Bradford.

There’s been a few like him. Jay Cutler, Ryan Leaf, Matt Sanchez, Jamarcus Russell, Carson Palmer, Jake Delhomme.

That’s just off the top of my head. I’m sure there’s others.

 

[percyhoward]

I like this one, because they were contemporaries:

QB Win%, 1999-2001
1 Dilfer .846
2 Warner .800

Passer rating, 1999-2001
1 Warner 101.6
15 Dilfer 79.9

 

[Diehardblues]

Hmmm - I took the OP as showing that Tebow and Rivers both had good winning percentages like Dak, but after reading your post and going back and looking at the OP I think you are right that the intent was just to compare Tebow's winning %, as a lesser QB, to Rivers winning %, as a better QB.

But the flaw with using Tebow is sample size. He has an 8-6 record - 14 games over 3 years. Stats are meaningless without at least some reasonable sample size to judge from, and Tebow never even QB'd a team for a full season.

In the end, while I don't think winning % is a stand alone view of a QB, I still think it is a relevant factor in judging QBs because the QB is the leader and the decision maker and he is in the position most able to influence the outcome of games because he has reads and choices to make that no other player does. It transcends mere stats.

Your last sentence is very true. Not all situations are the same, and that is really the flaw in using winning % as a stand alone factor. It needs to be used only as A factor, not THE factor.

Your 1st paragraph hits the nail on the head. This thread wasn’t intended to go any deeper than that IMO.

 

[Diehardblues]

I like this one, because they were contemporaries:

QB Win%, 1999-2001
1 Dilfer .846
2 Warner .800

Passer rating, 1999-2001
1 Warner 101.6
15 Dilfer 79.9

Another great example how we can spin facts to support a narrative . Well done !!

 

[OmerV]

Your 1st paragraph hits the nail on the head. This thread wasn’t intended to go any deeper than that IMO.

I would say it was intended to go deeper than that because it wasn't just a random comment about Tebow and Rivers, it was using the Tebow and Rivers example as a source of commentary about Dak.

 

[Diehardblues]

I would say it was intended to go deeper than that because it wasn't just a random comment about Tebow and Rivers, it was using the Tebow and Rivers example as a source of commentary about Dak.

Could be but I saw it more as “ click bait”.

But to your point comparing Dak to Brady last 3 years is similar to comparing Rivers and Tebow. No comparison in talent level or passing ability.