Word of Muth: Giants O-Line vs. Cowboys

[JD_KaPow]

Ben Muth does a really terrific column for Football Outsiders on offensive line play. Each year, he picks three teams to follow for the upcoming season. He's done the Cowboys a couple times over the last few seasons: this year he isn't, but he is following the Giants. So this piece has lots of video and discussion about the DAL-NYG game, but from a Giants OL perspective.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2017/word-muth-first-impressions

"Good God in Heaven, [Bobby Hart, the RT] screws up like three things in his first two steps. It's actually impressive. First, he false steps with his outside foot. If you're running outside zone away, you should never ever step with your outside foot first. Then, when he does get around to stepping play-side, he steps underneath himself. So after taking two steps, he has somehow moved in the opposite direction from where he was trying to go. He is further away from making a block than if he had just stayed in his stance.

And finally, he ends the play with an absolute textbook case of a coffee table cut. On a good cut, you put your helmet on a defender's thigh board and drive your legs until you just can't stay up anymore. On a crappy cut, you drop to all fours and hope the defender trips over you like you're a coffee table in the middle of the night. This play is an absolute dumpster fire of technique."

 

[BAT]

Ben Muth does a really terrific column for Football Outsiders on offensive line play. Each year, he picks three teams to follow for the upcoming season. He's done the Cowboys a couple times over the last few seasons: this year he isn't, but he is following the Giants. So this piece has lots of video and discussion about the DAL-NYG game, but from a Giants OL perspective.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2017/word-muth-first-impressions

"Good God in Heaven, [Bobby Hart, the RT] screws up like three things in his first two steps. It's actually impressive. First, he false steps with his outside foot. If you're running outside zone away, you should never ever step with your outside foot first. Then, when he does get around to stepping play-side, he steps underneath himself. So after taking two steps, he has somehow moved in the opposite direction from where he was trying to go. He is further away from making a block than if he had just stayed in his stance.

And finally, he ends the play with an absolute textbook case of a coffee table cut. On a good cut, you put your helmet on a defender's thigh board and drive your legs until you just can't stay up anymore. On a crappy cut, you drop to all fours and hope the defender trips over you like you're a coffee table in the middle of the night. This play is an absolute dumpster fire of technique."

That review kinda kills the buzz on how well our D played. The main point of the article was that Giants OL was not just horrible, they were blatantly incompetent.

 

[dmq]

I saw several holds on the Giants as well.

 

[JD_KaPow]

That review kinda kills the buzz on how well our D played. The main point of the article was that Giants OL was not just horrible, they were blatantly incompetent.

Yeah, opponents and matchups matter a lot. You have to mentally discount Lawrence's performance because he was facing a terrible player. The good news is, Lawrence completely dominated that matchup, which is what you'd expect a good player to do in that situation. But you can't really tell how good until you see him against better competition.

 

[gimmesix]

That review kinda kills the buzz on how well our D played. The main point of the article was that Giants OL was not just horrible, they were blatantly incompetent.

Was this every really in doubt. I'm not sure we'll face a worse OL this season.

That doesn't mean we can't see some positives with the defense, such as Lawrence looking more like he did in 2015 than 2016, Jaylon Smith having a decent debut and coverage being solid overall.

I think we can make too much, though, of plays like Tapper's sack. He got one and I'm happy for it, but the tackle played him terribly and the overall ineffectiveness of the Giants' offense.

 

[Doomsday]

I saw several holds on the Giants as well.

It always amazes me how a crap oline getting its butt kicked for 60 minutes, can go a full game without holding or at least getting called for one.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

We knew the Giants were bad......what we didn't know was if our defensive line was good enough to take advantage of a bad line. They did. No one can devalue that for me. I'm still taking a wait and see approach with the defense but as bad as the Giants line was....they get paid to play too.

 

[DFWJC]

Eli is dealing with possibly even worse than what Tony had to deal with for a couple of years. Except at least he has a very strong defense.
Kind of feel sorry for him..............

nah

 

[VACowboy]

This has already been discussed ad nauseam so I'm going to save my breath, but I do have to ask one question: if the Giants offense is as bad as Muth and everybody else says it is (and I think it probably is) then how many points is OBJ really worth in an otherwise three-point game?

 

[robbieruff]

Ben Muth does a really terrific column for Football Outsiders on offensive line play. Each year, he picks three teams to follow for the upcoming season. He's done the Cowboys a couple times over the last few seasons: this year he isn't, but he is following the Giants. So this piece has lots of video and discussion about the DAL-NYG game, but from a Giants OL perspective.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2017/word-muth-first-impressions

"Good God in Heaven, [Bobby Hart, the RT] screws up like three things in his first two steps. It's actually impressive. First, he false steps with his outside foot. If you're running outside zone away, you should never ever step with your outside foot first. Then, when he does get around to stepping play-side, he steps underneath himself. So after taking two steps, he has somehow moved in the opposite direction from where he was trying to go. He is further away from making a block than if he had just stayed in his stance.

And finally, he ends the play with an absolute textbook case of a coffee table cut. On a good cut, you put your helmet on a defender's thigh board and drive your legs until you just can't stay up anymore. On a crappy cut, you drop to all fours and hope the defender trips over you like you're a coffee table in the middle of the night. This play is an absolute dumpster fire of technique."

That’s friggin hilarious.

 

[Nova]

Thanks for posting. This guy is awesome and love when he covers us.

I think I might like even better when he trashes the Giants.

 

[robbieruff]

This has already been discussed ad nauseam so I'm going to save my breath, but I do have to ask one question: if the Giants offense is as bad as Muth and everybody else says it is (and I think it probably is) then how many points is OBJ really worth in an otherwise three-point game?

Don’t know about points but it’s certainly gonna be a lot of zeroes!!!!

 

[Doomsday]

Every one is talking about the defensive line and they played well but the bigger story to me was how well the secondary came together to limit the quick throws that Eli loves to make, forcing him to hold onto the ball.

Last week all we heard about was how the secondary had 4 new players and they were young and unproven. I never really bought into that A. Brown is a stud, Scandrick is under rated and Heath adds a lot of speed to the mix that Church didn't have. I think most Cowboys fans were anxious but felt like this secondary would be better and all signs point to us being right.

 

[Mr Cowboy]

In the past, we've had the uncanny ability to make a really bad OL look like the Dallas Wall of the early 90's.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That review kinda kills the buzz on how well our D played. The main point of the article was that Giants OL was not just horrible, they were blatantly incompetent.

You should read the whole article again then. He said Pugh and Flowers played just fine.

On the bright side, the left side of the line played alright (at least in the passing game). At left guard I thought Justin Pughplayed the best of any Giants offensive lineman, and probably better than any of their skill guys too. He didn't give up a lot of pressure and generally blocked his man in the running game.

I also thought Ereck Flowers played OK. Now a lot of that was low expectations, and some of it was not being Bobby Hart, but Flowers looked like a starting offensive tackle last Sunday. Not a great one, but certainly not the disaster I've heard about. Still, he did get beat on a sack on what was probably the most costly play of the game for New York's offense

He just hammered Hart. We did damage up and down their line.

Further poor OL play is the norm not the exception in the NFL.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Sometimes quality of competition is overshadowed by final game results. An example would be the first week's ranking of the NFL that I have seen show Pittsburgh as the best team in football. Now all of these rankings throughout the year are subjective and trash.

But...

Pittsburgh played the Browns, who will still be garbage again this season. So what have the Stealers done that would impress even the most neophyte football fan that doesn't have a pony in the race or is a journalist trying to hit a word count to keep a paycheck?

My point is this. The Giant win was good for this team. But truly we as fans have gotten no real answers about where the Dallas Cowboys are. Sunday could very well be a giant step backwards from the glee we all felt beating Eli and company.

Factor in the league is dead set on disrupting the esprit de corps of this team with the nuisance legal aspects of the NFL management trying to save face after being exposed as the despots they are (Goodell, Henderson, Lisa Friel).

But what I find perhaps the biggest injustice of all is this team will overcome the legal aspects until late in the season and Zeke will be punished the first six games next year when all the youth on this team starts to gel, and a true sight on a Super Bowl berth and perhaps win could be reality, but will be for naught because of some suited hypocrites trying to create an atmosphere of compassion for a cause they don't give a rat's elbow about.

Sorry, I went down a rabbit hole on this. But factually not one of us, from the newest poster, to the ones who write volumes on the events on game day in coach speak, to the owner of this site truly understand where this team is after the first game, or where they are ultimately headed.

That includes me, most of all.

The Giants were cake because of their offensive line, Dallas' ability to keep the ball away from their offense, a hot evening with the roof shut that wore out their defense, a majestic catch by the smallest guy on the field, and a WR who was sitting his hind bone on the bench.

It's one step. But how that step reflects where this franchise is, is obscure because of the team Dallas played.

Sorry, I don't believe any of us will know where this team is until Thanksgiving at best. But just know this. Every fiber of my being wants this season to gel into something memorable for us all.

I am so ready to be bragging about this team in February and beyond to fans of others teams to the point of being obnoxious. Especially the NFC East fans.

Enjoy this day in your life. They are numbered.

 

[TheHerd]

This has already been discussed ad nauseam so I'm going to save my breath, but I do have to ask one question: if the Giants offense is as bad as Muth and everybody else says it is (and I think it probably is) then how many points is OBJ really worth in an otherwise three-point game?

And why did everyone (even during the game) say the Giants are legit Super Bowl contenders? Most people picked the Giants in the NFC East.

 

[casmith07]

Ben Muth does a really terrific column for Football Outsiders on offensive line play. Each year, he picks three teams to follow for the upcoming season. He's done the Cowboys a couple times over the last few seasons: this year he isn't, but he is following the Giants. So this piece has lots of video and discussion about the DAL-NYG game, but from a Giants OL perspective.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2017/word-muth-first-impressions

"Good God in Heaven, [Bobby Hart, the RT] screws up like three things in his first two steps. It's actually impressive. First, he false steps with his outside foot. If you're running outside zone away, you should never ever step with your outside foot first. Then, when he does get around to stepping play-side, he steps underneath himself. So after taking two steps, he has somehow moved in the opposite direction from where he was trying to go. He is further away from making a block than if he had just stayed in his stance.

And finally, he ends the play with an absolute textbook case of a coffee table cut. On a good cut, you put your helmet on a defender's thigh board and drive your legs until you just can't stay up anymore. On a crappy cut, you drop to all fours and hope the defender trips over you like you're a coffee table in the middle of the night. This play is an absolute dumpster fire of technique."

Hart, Berry, and Flowers are all a tire fire.

 

[mahoneybill]

Eli is dealing with possibly even worse than what Tony had to deal with for a couple of years. Except at least he has a very strong defense.
Kind of feel sorry for him..............

nah

Not me..... He has 2 rings that were earned by his D and some magic rabbit foots luck.....

 

[Gameover]

This DLine is good(not great) but could be very good by the time we get all our pieces together!

Best first two levels of the D the Cowboys have had this century! That doesn't mean they won't give up points, every team does. Encouraging sign that on that time consuming drive that the Cowboys only gave up 3, past Cow D's would've given up the touchdown. This D made plays to prevent the touchdown .and I'll take that no matter how bad the other teams offense is.

Don't come at me with the crap we had with Ware and Company

Not with Spears and Canty(weak links), Bradie James and the model. Please