Worried about this defense

[Doomsday101]

I will wait a couple of games before I get overly concerned with the defense. Clearly mistakes were made and this is the oppertunity for Kiffin and Marinelli to get these mistakes cleaned up.

 

[dallasdave]

They had TWO sustained drivers of 80 yds or more, one long pass as a result of a busted coverage and another while Dallas was playing prevent, can we stop with the hyperbol? They did NOT move the ball at will.
Funny how it's a fluke that Dallas got a bunch of turnovers, but Cruz running free down the middle of field because everyone was confused isn't.

Good one.

 

[visionary]

What attitude?

The guy wants to play. He was out there on the field with the team helping the young guys Sunday going through warmup drills. He was right there with marinelli and the two of them were getting the guys ready.

He will have an impact.

I am still holding out hope that Rat will have a significant impact once he returns

 

[TellerMorrow34]

But do we not face several more teams as good if not better in those areas?

Maybe a couple but there aren't many teams out there with as good a big three as the Giants have with Eli, Nicks, and Cruz.

I think Denver has that and New Orleans and I'd maybe throw Atlanta in there because their WR's are studs but I don't think Ryan is anywhere near as good as Eli (although I do think Ryan is very good). And we don't face Atlanta unless we see them in the playoffs, should both teams make it.

Detroit could maybe the mentioned but I don't think they're overall as good as the Giants in those areas because Stafford isn't nearly as good as Eli and Megatron, while he's the best at his position, they don't have another WR that would scare me in the way Cruz and Nicks do. Then there is Greenbay whose QB absolutely scares you cause he's so great but his WR core isn't as scary as Cruz and Nicks, IMO.

We face a few more passing attacks that are maybe as good, match up wise, as what the Giants can offer.

But I don't know that I'd claim several.

The Seahawks are bigger and more nasty....

What huge difference do you see? I see both teams that attack, and play pretty basic coverage...with times mixed in exotic coverage's

More nasty and that small little detail of having probably the best secondary in all of football.

Ours isn't even close to being as good as Seattle's and their depth on DL is probably better as well.

 

[Frozen700]

Seattle runs a really weird base defense that I can best classify as a 3-4 defense.

They categorize it as a 4-3 under-hybrid, but it's got more in common with a traditional 3-4 than it does a true 4-3.

The biggest difference between traditional 3-4 and 4-3 (other than alignment) are gap assignments-- 1 gap scheme (4-3) vs 2 gap (3-4).

Seattle's assignments (And in Bryant's case, assignment, alignment, and prototypical size) are the same as 3-4 defense, except for McDaniel who is a 1 gap player most of the time, but also will pull 2 gap duty.

Clemmons is the weakside DE (Elephant/Leo/whatever you want to call it) with his hand on the ground, but he really doesn't have different duties than a typical 3-4 weakside OLB-- except he probably rushes the passer at a higher percentage of snaps. And the SAM for their defense has similar duties as a strong side OLB in a 3-4, although he's undersized for versatility in other schemes.

TL/DR; version:
Cowboys base 4-3 under is a 1 gap scheme.
Seahawks 4-3 under-hybrid is largely a two gap scheme (again McDaniel is 1 gap most of the time).

Thanks for that......

Never knew

 

[Frozen700]

Maybe a couple but there aren't many teams out there with as good a big three as the Giants have with Eli, Nicks, and Cruz.

I think Denver has that and New Orleans and I'd maybe throw Atlanta in there because their WR's are studs but I don't think Ryan is anywhere near as good as Eli (although I do think Ryan is very good). And we don't face Atlanta unless we see them in the playoffs, should both teams make it.

Detroit could maybe the mentioned but I don't think they're overall as good as the Giants in those areas because Stafford isn't nearly as good as Eli and Megatron, while he's the best at his position, they don't have another WR that would scare me in the way Cruz and Nicks do. Then there is Greenbay whose QB absolutely scares you cause he's so great but his WR core isn't as scary as Cruz and Nicks, IMO.

We face a few more passing attacks that are maybe as good, match up wise, as what the Giants can offer.

But I don't know that I'd claim several.



More nasty and that small little detail of having probably the best secondary in all of football.

Ours isn't even close to being as good as Seattle's and their depth on DL is probably better as well.

I was talking Scheme wise, not Talent. I know they have more depth and talent

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I will wait a couple of games before I get overly concerned with the defense. Clearly mistakes were made and this is the oppertunity for Kiffin and Marinelli to get these mistakes cleaned up.

That's a valid point.

The communication thing will improve... no doubt in my mind.

One of the things we tend to forget is the relative young age and the inexperience of the linebacking corp.

I think the Giants were very good at using their linemen to "trip" the running game "keys" for the linebackers, which caused them problems when the apparent run turned out to be a pass.

Lee and Carter haven't been starters forever and it's going to take time and some hard lessons for them to get up to speed on all the tricks of the trade used by offenses in the NFL.

 

[jnday]

Last year was the only time in Rats career he didn't play most if not all the games of the Season and at a very high level. He might not have had all the sacks he got his first couple of years but he was still a force. If you go watch the games, watch how he was schemed by the OL, that will tell you all you need to know about how productive he was when he was in there. If he can get healthy this year, he will have a major impact. He is still our best DL. As far as his attitude goes, are you kidding me? He had some beef with Jones. It happens, ever disagreed with your boss? He works hard, he shows up on Sundays when healthy and he goes all out. He helps this team and I can't wait for him to get back out there.

For the last three years Ratliff has not drawn much attention from opposing olinemen. I have seen him pushed back time and time again with only a center or guard. The double teams are not needed anymore. He makes one great play a game that seems to stick with fans while they ignore all the other snaps that he is pushed back and easily blocked. When it comes to attitude, the team was questioning his injury status. They had doubts about him too. His actions toward Jerry was his response. Everybody has had problems with their boss. If Jerry had any balls, he would have cut him on the spot. Instead, the cap hit is so large for cutting him, that Jerry wouldn't do the right thing. Add his drunk driving and a few other things, he is not worth the trouble. How many people physically jumps on their boss and keeps their job? It shouldn't happen. Fans just let their emotional attachment override reality.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Risen Star doesn't even agree with Risen Star on the DL. He's just pivoted since the OL has been addressed more aggressively recently to the next obvious area where we're both depleted due to injuries and where the players' contracts are obviously such that we're going to be addressing those position next in the draft and FA. There's always going to be some position next in line to be addressed, and that's the one you proclaim is embarrassing if you're interested in looking both cynical and ahead of the game. The more emphatic you are, the more impressive the magic trick appears to be.

"Magic trick".

Anyone that thinks the defensive line was the "reason" for the Cowboys giving up 450 passing yards simply screams agenda.

 

[Doomsday101]

That's a valid point.

The communication thing will improve... no doubt in my mind.

One of the things we tend to forget is the relative young age and the inexperience of the linebacking corp.

I think the Giants were very good at using their linemen to "trip" the running game "keys" for the linebackers, which caused them problems when the apparent run turned out to be a pass.

Lee and Carter haven't been starters forever and it's going to take time and some hard lessons for them to get up to speed on all the tricks of the trade used by offenses in the NFL.

Fact is NY is a good offense they can put up yards and points. Eli played from behind he had nothing to lose gunning some of those balls in there even with very good coverage at times then again when you are trailing you have no choice. Heck Dallas offense is capable of doing the same Romo has been in the position of playing from behind and has put up big numbers but one mistake and the run is over. Well NY made 1 mistake and Dallas jumped on it to win.

Clearly some things need to be tighened up in the secondary but right now it is a new defense and Dallas has a lot of work to make this scheme second nature to them.

 

[jobberone]

NY had four sustained drives with 3 scores and a turnover deep in Dal territory. I really don't know for sure how much of that is on the prevent defense and how much is a problem. And yes the blown coverages is a problem.

 

[Stash]

That's a valid point.

The communication thing will improve... no doubt in my mind.

One of the things we tend to forget is the relative young age and the inexperience of the linebacking corp.

I think the Giants were very good at using their linemen to "trip" the running game "keys" for the linebackers, which caused them problems when the apparent run turned out to be a pass.

Lee and Carter haven't been starters forever and it's going to take time and some hard lessons for them to get up to speed on all the tricks of the trade used by offenses in the NFL.

It bothers me if what you're saying about them biting on the run fakes is true.

There was no significant threat of run from the Giants all night, therefore I see no reason why they would have or should have been so eager to be so worried about it.

 

[theebs]

It bothers me if what you're saying about them biting on the run fakes is true.

There was no significant threat of run from the Giants all night, therefore I see no reason why they would have or should have been so eager to be so worried about it.

go back and look at the giants first big play to nicks, which I think was their second possession. It was a fake to Wilson and all three running backs went crashing into the defensive lineman.

they created a huge gap...

We are going to have ups and downs for awhile.

 

[Blackspider214]

if only we had an exotic, multi front, new age defense like Green Bay

Exactly. I'm still skeptical how this plays out for the next 15 games but we already saw an exotic 3-4 defense the last 2 years and it was downright horrible. That was what Ryan tried to implement. Crazy blitzes from all over the place but it didn't work. Sometimes you just have to go back to the basics.

Like people have mentioned, this defense in theory is a bend but don't break but will get more turnovers. We got about 40% of our total turnovers we had last year in our first game. Granted, we won't get 6 a game but this defense will force more turnovers just based on the scheme.

The TD pass to Cruz was a busted coverage. Should have called a timeout on that play when one of the defenders was screaming he didn't know the play. That was 70 yards. Another 80 or so came on that very last drive when we were up 12. Cowboys told the Giants we will let you score but you are going to take up the entire clock doing it. And that's what happened. Scored with 11 seconds left.

Cowboys were winning this entire game. We saw it last year with us. We became pass happy and Romo racked up tons of yards. Same as Eli.

Also, 2 of our turnovers were TDs, meaning Giants offense got possession right back. Equaling less time for our offense to get out there and more possession for theirs. Meaning more yards will be gained.

Don't worry about yards gained so much. Look at the context they were gained. You also realize that QBs who throw for 400+ have a losing record, right? It makes sense. Team is losing so you go pass happy and gain a whole bunch of yards to a defense willing to give them up if you waste time doing it.

 

[Corso]

Risen Star doesn't even agree with Risen Star on the DL. He's just pivoted since the OL has been addressed more aggressively recently to the next obvious area where we're both depleted due to injuries and where the players' contracts are obviously such that we're going to be addressing those position next in the draft and FA. There's always going to be some position next in line to be addressed, and that's the one you proclaim is embarrassing if you're interested in looking both cynical and ahead of the game. The more emphatic you are, the more impressive the magic trick appears to be.

Well-grounded response.

 

[theebs]

It bothers me if what you're saying about them biting on the run fakes is true.

There was no significant threat of run from the Giants all night, therefore I see no reason why they would have or should have been so eager to be so worried about it.

here are pics of the nicks pass and how it was so open, Durant and lee totally get fooled.
http://i8.***BLOCKED***/albums/a46/Theebs/play-fake-giants-2_zps3ce6c388.jpg
http://i8.***BLOCKED***/albums/a46/Theebs/play-fake-giants-1_zps5c399f89.jpg

 

[Rockport]

This discussion doesn't really need to bleed into every topic we both post in, does it? I mean, you and I can talk about, say, our defense, without going back to the fact that running the ball more effectively than the other guys does not help teams win games? I hope so, because I generally like trading posts with you, Amber, and you've got a lot of good things to say on any number of topics.

It's a reflection of how strong I feel about being able to run the ball and building your team via the trenches. It's winning football. Always has been and always will be.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I have my concerns as well. I honestly didn't think the Linebackers played all that well and that includes Carter. I didn't like how they played in pass coverage. They seemed to have problems figuring out where they needed to be. I do think the Giants threw the defense off a bit with a lot of misdirection. I think the defense will be better prepared for that.

I thought Claiborne was awful. He looked afraid to be beaten deep and lost. I know this may sound funny, but the big TD pass over Will Allen doesn't worry me as much. And I actually was quite pleased with the D-Line's play.

Right now, I would say this reminds me a bit of the '05 defense when it switched to the 3-4. There were a lot of players not quite comfortable in the scheme, but the scheme was allowing players to make more plays. I think the difference between this change in scheme versus the '05 change is that we have much better fit of personnel. We don't have to worry about La'Roi Glover playing Nose Tackle and Greg Ellis playing 3-4 DE with Al Singleton as the 3-4 OLB. I think that we have better personnel fitting this 4-3 and it showed up on Sunday when you could see the speed on defense was noticeably faster and got much more up the field. And we did have 5 turnovers from the D.

So, there's reason to have *some* worry, IMO. But, we'll have to wait and see.





YR

 

[visionary]

Anyone that thinks the defensive line was the "reason" for the Cowboys giving up 450 passing yards simply screams agenda.

No more than the agenda of people who believe that "DL is a strength on this team" or "stopping the pass is important stopping the run is not"


BTW we stopped the giants run game but did not come close to controlling their passing game BUT we won


Go figure

 

[MichaelWinicki]

http://i8.***BLOCKED***/albums/a46/Theebs/play-fake-giants-1_zps5c399f89.jpg

That's not bad if it truly was a running play... And it wasn't... Ouch...