Would anybody agree with me on this?

[Hostile]

Well....that is a given at every position. But, it came down to the kicker unfortunately.

I'd say at least 2 came down to the FS.

 

[MapleLeaf]

How many of those losses could have been reversed with better personnel at other positions?

3.

Nuff said.

...never guarantee better personnel at all positions. That's what the salary cap does, but the cap hasn't hit the kicker position and what that position contributes in terms of the game is still a bargain.

You can't effectively gameplan against a kicker. There's not a coach or GM alive who wouldn't drop two to three million dollars a season for a kicker who will nail the winning 55 yard FG in the playoffs or SuperBowl.

 

[Kilyin]

Well....that is a given at every position. But, it came down to the kicker unfortunately.

Never know, Suisham might be money from 29 yards.

 

[Jimz31]

...never guarantee better personnel at all positions. That's what the salary cap does, but the cap hasn't hit the kicker position and what that position contributes in terms of the game is still a bargain.

You can't effectively gameplan against a kicker. There's not a coach or GM alive who wouldn't drop two to three million dollars a season for a kicker who will nail the winning 55 yard FG in the playoffs or SuperBowl.

Yet, they still wouldn't get respected by some people. And why not? They do just as much to help win games....and lose them...as anybody else.

When the offense can't get 10 yards, who do they call in there? The kicker.

How many times have you seen teams all holding hands on one knee on the sideline when it came down to a kick? I can think of one team in particular that it has happened to more than once....the Patriots.

 

[Hostile]

...never guarantee better personnel at all positions. That's what the salary cap does, but the cap hasn't hit the kicker position and what that position contributes in terms of the game is still a bargain.

You can't effectively gameplan against a kicker. There's not a coach or GM alive who wouldn't drop two to three million dollars a season for a kicker who will nail the winning 55 yard FG in the playoffs or SuperBowl.

Fair enough.

Name me the top 10 Kickers in the NFL (your opinion, not mine) and let's see what their draft position was. Let's see if they are worth the price of Day 1 Draft picks.

Mind you I was a guy saying I'd take Mike Nugent in the 3rd this year, so I partially agree.

 

[Sitting Bull]

Rackers is a 6 yr vet who was drafted by Cincinnati in the 6th round in 2000.

Okay, I misread his ESPN player card.

Bottomline, he was CUT by Cincy before the 2003/2004 season and we could've had him (and other quality kickers) without spending a valuable draft pick, which was my point.

 

[Hostile]

Yet, they still wouldn't get respected by some people. And why not? They do just as much to help win games....and lose them...as anybody else.

When the offense can't get 10 yards, who do they call in there? The kicker.

How many times have you seen teams all holding hands on one knee on the sideline when it came down to a kick? I can think of one team in particular that it has happened to more than once....the Patriots.

That has nothing to do with why I dislike them.

 

[Danny White]

Suisham looked pathetic in those warmup clips.

I don't think we're out of the woods yet.

 

[Jimz31]

Fair enough.

Name me the top 10 Kickers in the NFL (your opinion, not mine) and let's see what their draft position was. Let's see if they are worth the price of Day 1 Draft picks.

Mind you I was a guy saying I'd take Mike Nugent in the 3rd this year, so I partially agree.

You don't necessarily have to take the guy in the draft....

But, once you get one and you see that he is a definite keeper, make it tougher on the guy to want to leave....pay him some more money.

Going through kickers every couple of years only means that 1. you aren't paying enough, or 2. the guy sucks and your scouting department needs to do a better job in this area.

 

[Hostile]

You don't necessarily have to take the guy in the draft....

But, once you get one and you see that he is a definite keeper, make it tougher on the guy to want to leave....pay him some more money.

Going through kickers every couple of years only means that 1. you aren't paying enough, or 2. the guy sucks and your scouting department needs to do a better job in this area.

I agree with that. I don't think we've had one worth keeping for a long time.

 

[Kilyin]

Suisham looked pathetic in those warmup clips.

I don't think we're out of the woods yet.

He said he was nervous and after Mcbriar had him read some passage from a book, he calmed down. Chipshots or not, he made them. That is an improvement.

 

[Jimz31]

That has nothing to do with why I dislike them.

It wasn't directed at you, and since you brought it up, why do you dislike them?

I wish it would never come down to the kicker either if that is the reason....unfortunately, it's part of the game.

 

[MapleLeaf]

I'd say at least 2 came down to the FS.

...the opposing OC gameplanned against.

BTW, 30 out of 124 games so far this season have been decided by three points or less. That's 24% of the games where a kicker either made or may have made a difference.

 

[Hostile]

It wasn't directed at you, and since you brought it up, why do you dislike them?

I wish it would never come down to the kicker either if that is the reason....unfortunately, it's part of the game.

I've never met a player yet who did like them. It's simply part and parcel of the locker room culture.

If you've never played you can't imagine how galling it is to leave your blood and sweat on the field and see one of these guys in a clean uniform kick a winner and get all the pub.

Worse still is leaving all that on the field and seeing them miss one.

I went to football camps and while I was running gassers saw some of them warming up with water bottles in their hands. Hell, one guy was smoking while he warmed up.

I can't help the disgust. That's the best way I can explain it.

 

[Jimz31]

...the opposing OC gameplanned against.

BTW, 30 out of 124 games so far this season have been decided by three points or less. That's 24% of the games where a kicker either made or may have made a difference.

I read about some study before that the amount of games that are being decided by 3 or fewer points is on the rise.

 

[Hostile]

...the opposing OC gameplanned against.

BTW, 30 out of 124 games so far this season have been decided by three points or less. That's 24% of the games where a kicker either made or may have made a difference.

A stronger D or stronger O could reduce that number for a given team. A stat league wide isn't proof enough.

 

[Jimz31]

I've never met a player yet who did like them. It's simply part and parcel of the locker room culture.

If you've never played you can't imagine how galling it is to leave your blood and sweat on the field and see one of these guys in a clean uniform kick a winner and get all the pub.

Worse still is leaving all that on the field and seeing them miss one.

I went to football camps and while I was running gassers saw some of them warming up with water bottles in their hands. Hell, one guy was smoking while he warmed up.

I can't help the disgust. That's the best way I can explain it.

OK...I can understand that....however, if I were leaving all of my blood and sweat on the field and the kicker missed it.....oh, I think I'd be much more upset.

 

[Danny White]

He said he was nervous and after Mcbriar had him read some passage from a book, he calmed down. Chipshots or not, he made them. That is an improvement.

Was it:

7 Habits of Highly Effective Kickers

or

Chicken Soup for the Kicker's Soul

?

 

[Hostile]

OK...I can understand that....however, if I were leaving all of my blood and sweat on the field and the kicker missed it.....oh, I think I'd be much more upset.

Sure you would be.

I'd still rather have a player at FS, or OL that made the team better and lessened the chances of relying on a sawed off midget.

 

[Jimz31]

Sure you would be.

I'd still rather have a player at FS, or OL that made the team better and lessened the chances of relying on a sawed off midget.

The sad thing is that the Patriots have a kicker to thank for some rings.

I understand your angst towards them, however, it's part of the game until it's changed.