Would You? Simmons to Cowboys

[Bullflop]

I'd gladly give Denver a 2nd round pick if Simmons' contract was agreed in advance to be a relatively affordable one. That's actually not an excessive requirement for such a high quality safety. It would certainly settle a long-standing problem in our secondary that has haunted us for far too many years. The long bombs that routinely betray our defense could be reduced to exceptions for many years to come. I really do like that idea.

 

[Proof]

And you think it was worth a 1st for one season? We were .500 last season w/ Amari, and then we had to pay him an exorbitant salary. And we're not winning this season w/ him. This story is not written yet by a long shot, and if we remain a .500 team and release him after next season(as has been projected) it turns out to be a terrible team killing trade.

You can get talented players for 1sts that are fixin' to demand a high salary all day. Teams often dump them because you cannot pay everyone. The Coop trade was pure and simply about us taking on his salary. And our D is even worse. Look beyond what Cooper is as a player, and think what we could've gotten for 20 mil. DJ Reader comes to mind, and he would fix more problems than Coop. Signed for 13 mil.

yes. I think Amari was worth it and more, all day. it's not just for "one season" either. we got him for 2 seasons essentially, and earned first rights of refusal on him. I don't know how you can say DJ reader would fix more problems than Amari when the team went from dead in the water, to winning 7 of their last 8 once he arrived and made the playoffs. He was literally an extreme difference maker. You might look now and see we also have gallup, and ceedee, and are losing and try to frame it in that context, but it doesn't work like that. He was a godsend and a fantastic trade, and I love him on this team. We have the most talented wr corps in football and he's the best one (at present). The teams dysfunction has nothing to do with him, so attempting to use our success or lack there of as the barometer for whether he was a good acquisition doesn't work for me.

 

[KingintheNorth]

I'd gladly give Denver a 2nd round pick if Simmons' contract was agreed in advance to be a relatively affordable one. That's actually not an excessive requirement for such a high quality safety. It would certainly settle a long-standing problem in our secondary that has haunted us for far too many years. The long bombs that routinely betray our defense could be reduced to exceptions for many years to come. I really do like that idea.

You have to consider that even if you lose him to free agency (not ideal in giving up a 2nd), you'd most likely be getting a 2022 3rd round compensatory pick.

So in reality, you are trading:
2021 2nd round pick (top 60 pick?)

for

10 or so games of All-Pro Safety play
which doubles as an audition to make him want to re-sign here (think Amari Cooper, turned down more money to stay)
and if he leaves, a 2022 3rd round pick (top 100 pick?)

 

[fivetwos]

Jerry isn't investing anymore in this years team.

Already has his excuse for failure.

Then next year's reason will be Dak wasnt quite right first year back.

Then he may have to think about something other than thinking they draft well and that's good enough.

Investing in ZERO second contract players since 2012 isnt going to cut it....but the cheap kid has him sold.

 

[KeepinTime]

Trade Tank Lawrence first.

I don’t think anyone’s taking that contract off Jerry’s hands, nor has he been playing well enough to generate interest.

 

[KeepinTime]

Nope. It's been tried, and has failed miserably every time. BPA might get you a bit over .500, but then you'll lose to playoff teams due to weaknesses that needed to be addressed.

Look at Ceedee. I love the player. Even though I wasn't on board at the time, I am now. He was indeed too good to pass up.

Now, look at the big pic. Did he make us better? He didn't. Why? Because we desperately need D. I was OK w/ CeeDee, because I knew we weren't going to be a juggernaut this season, and would remain a borderline playoff team. Which is what we'll remain if we don't fix the D.

Soooooo, BPA. If another WR is sliding and is the obvious BPA, do you take another WR?

Hell no.

 

[FVSTONE]

ESPN has the Cowboys bolstering its secondary by trading for Broncos safety Justin Simmons who’s a low-key star.

Broncos trade Justin Simmons to Cowboys
Dallas Cowboys get: S Justin Simmons
Denver Broncos get: 2021 second-round pick, 2022 fourth-round pick

Two years ago, a struggling Cowboys team turned around its season by sending a first-round pick to the Raiders for Amari Cooper. The move was widely panned, but Dallas was right: The Cowboys were a much better team with Cooper on the field, they won the NFC East and they turned around what had been a struggling Dak Prescott.

Now, it's a flailing defense that needs to be fixed. The Cowboys haven't been interested in safety Earl
Thomas, but what they need is someone who can be stout against the run and solid in coverage. Trading for Simmons would be a bold move, especially given that they just lost Prescott for the season, but Dallas has enough to win the NFC East with Andy Daltonbehind center if it can get the secondary right. Team owner Jerry Jones and the front office also have shown an interest in trading for young stars they can sign to extensions, and Simmons would presumably be open to a significant extension on the sort of long-term deal the Cowboys favor.

Broncos fans would likely want to hold out for a Jamal Adams-sized package in return for their star safety, but that's just not realistic. Adams was two years away from free agency, while Simmons is already on his first franchise tag. The Broncos weren't able to come to terms on a contract extension before the season with the Boston College product, and with Simmons set to make $13.7 million on a second franchise tag against a $175 million cap next year, things aren't going to get any easier.

If Denver loses its next two games and falls out of the playoff race at 1-5, it will have to face facts. There's no sense in having Simmons play the second half of a lost season before letting him leave in free agency. Locking in a second-round pick gets the Broncos a better pick than a third-round compensatory selection, has that pick arrive a year early and allows general manager John Elway to spend in free agency without negating that would-be compensatory pick.

I like your thinking, I'm sure the Cowboy front office has Simmons in their sights. My question is, if Simmons can't be signed to a long term deal then the Cowboys may lose him to free agency. Especially if Dak's situation is still up in the air. The Cowboys may be force to franchise Dak one more year if they can't sign and want to keep him from walking. Who knows how the new players contract is going to come into play...........

 

[Bullflop]

You have to consider that even if you lose him to free agency (not ideal in giving up a 2nd), you'd most likely be getting a 2022 3rd round compensatory pick.

So in reality, you are trading:
2021 2nd round pick (top 60 pick?)

for

10 or so games of All-Pro Safety play
which doubles as an audition to make him want to re-sign here (think Amari Cooper, turned down more money to stay)
and if he leaves, a 2022 3rd round pick (top 100 pick?)

I wouldn't take him in a deal unless it was for far more than a year. You don't give up a 2nd round pick for a temporary fix. If that somehow couldn't be arrived at no deal would be forthcoming.

 

[rags]

The cap next year is going to $175. They'll have trouble fitting Dak under it, no way they trade for a safety.

And, a number of our defensive players are in the final years of their contracts as well.

 

[kskboys]

yes. I think Amari was worth it and more, all day. it's not just for "one season" either. we got him for 2 seasons essentially, and earned first rights of refusal on him. I don't know how you can say DJ reader would fix more problems than Amari when the team went from dead in the water, to winning 7 of their last 8 once he arrived and made the playoffs. He was literally an extreme difference maker. You might look now and see we also have gallup, and ceedee, and are losing and try to frame it in that context, but it doesn't work like that. He was a godsend and a fantastic trade, and I love him on this team. We have the most talented wr corps in football and he's the best one (at present). The teams dysfunction has nothing to do with him, so attempting to use our success or lack there of as the barometer for whether he was a good acquisition doesn't work for me.

Our D blows mighty mighty chunks. Why in the world would you claim it doesn't work like that?

 

[jaythecowboy]

Our draft strategy is BPA? No wonder we remain a .500 team. We'll never get better if we don't fix our weaknesses.

There are other ways to fix weaknesses besides the draft, but purposefully picking a worse player just because he is at a position of need will cause you to end up with worse talent. Not really surprising when you think about it. That being said this is the first year I think the Cowboys have actually held to BPA.

 

[Proof]

Our D blows mighty mighty chunks. Why in the world would you claim it doesn't work like that?

im not sure you can read

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

So lose draft picks for a half a year rental? No way. As for the Amari Cooper trade being the right call sorry no on that as well. We traded for Cooper and won the division and then over the last two seasons have struggled to make it to the playoffs. Instead we should have kept the pick and bolstered the defense with a talent at LB or Safety.

 

[kskboys]

There are other ways to fix weaknesses besides the draft, but purposefully picking a worse player just because he is at a position of need will cause you to end up with worse talent. Not really surprising when you think about it. That being said this is the first year I think the Cowboys have actually held to BPA.

Not necessarily true. How much worse? How bad is the position hurting? I think you're trying to make this simple when it's not.

Chiefs took Chris Jones at a position of need when there were better prospects available. Texans took Clowney because he was rated over Mack.

Those are two I can think of off the top of my head where BPA would have been less.

You're missing two primary facets in your drafting thoughts:

1. There is no such thing as a clear BPA.

2. If you don't improve your weaknesses, this talent you're speaking of will not improve your team.

There's been many teams over the years who drafted using your ideas about BPA, and they always fail.

 

[kskboys]

im not sure you can read

I'm not sure you've passed 3rd grade. Your response is inane to a ridiculous degree.

Seriously, why'd you turn to insults? Basically, when I see the cheap insults flying, it's generally because the person has been presented w/ an argument they cannot refute. Nice of you to admit you were wrong.

 

[kskboys]

im not sure you can read

I'm not sure you've passed 3rd grade. Your response is inane to a ridiculous degree.

Seriously, why'd you turn to insults? Basically, when I see the cheap insults flying, it's generally because the person has been presented w/ an argument they cannot refute. Nice of you to admit you were wrong.

 

[Proof]

I'm not sure you've passed 3rd grade. Your response is inane to a ridiculous degree.

Seriously, why'd you turn to insults? Basically, when I see the cheap insults flying, it's generally because the person has been presented w/ an argument they cannot refute. Nice of you to admit you were wrong.

I typed a long, (imo) well thought out post, and you read it and asked me something I didn’t say.

 

[jaythecowboy]

Not necessarily true. How much worse? How bad is the position hurting? I think you're trying to make this simple when it's not.

Chiefs took Chris Jones at a position of need when there were better prospects available. Texans took Clowney because he was rated over Mack.

Those are two I can think of off the top of my head where BPA would have been less.

You're missing two primary facets in your drafting thoughts:

1. There is no such thing as a clear BPA.

2. If you don't improve your weaknesses, this talent you're speaking of will not improve your team.

There's been many teams over the years who drafted using your ideas about BPA, and they always fail.

There are ways to improve your team without intentionally taking worse players. If the best player is at at position of strength for your team then you can make a trade, or sign a free agent. Did the Chiefs say there were better players available than Chris Jones? It would be based on their evaluation, not national scouting. I don't recall who the Chiefs passed on but Chris Jones turned out pretty good so curious who they could have taken instead.

The Ceedee Lamb trade is one that people point to as a mistake. People are advocating taking a safety instead when the first safety didn't come off the board till the 2nd round. That would have been a big mistake. And if the receiver group truly was so over loaded you can trade Gallup right now or trade Cooper in the offseason, getting additional draft capital, while not having to pay $20 million to a wide receiver. You can use that cash and draft capital for the defense. I'm not making it simple, but the overwhelming majority of the time it is simple--take the best player.

 

[StarBoyz83]

No dallas has too many holes

 

[kskboys]

I typed a long, (imo) well thought out post, and you read it and asked me something I didn’t say.

And instead of asking, you threw back a childish insult about reading, and used bad grammar and punctuation to do so. It was really bad.