Would you trade Allen for Carr?

[Doomsday101]

Like I said who is going to replace LA? Do we have a pro bowl LG in the wings I don't know about? NO....if we had someone as good I'd have no problems.....other than the cap implications.

Who is going to be our FS? we will have to replace that position but I don't think you say well we can't release him because we have no one. This is the time of the year that you can change that. At 8 mill I don't think Larry is worth that for the 1 season he has left in him, I think you cut your ties and find a replacement who will be around more than 1 more season. As for trading an old OG for a young QB again that is a no brainer. It will also not happen because no one would be dumb enough to make that offer. As far as Larry being a Pro Bowler I have hard times saying that with a stright face, Larry did not deserve is last year and he did not deserves this year.

 

[Mol Mol]

First, our QB is NOT Solid..He is OK.. And he CANNOT make something out of nothing. So yes, I would rather start grooming a young QB.. You think all teams that have to start over at QB wait till they get a line to do it ? We cant wait till we get a line then get a QB, that could take years. You have to get the young QB going NOW, if its Romo then we are ahead.. But if Bledsoe stays here 2 years it will seriously set this franchise back in the rebuilding process. Look who long it took us to get an average QB like Bledsoe. And I am also tired of once the line falters a little our QB is screwed. We need a QB that can escape pressure, otherwise it will be the same results as last year.

We have a solid qb and a solid rg we we should get rid of both of them just to get a young qb? I'm all for the young qb but if we can't protect him what good will he be? We don't have a replacement for LA.

Not to mention the cap hits we would take by trading LA and receiving Carr and also having two high priced qb's.

 

[Doomsday101]

First, our QB is NOT Solid..He is OK.. And he CANNOT make something out of nothing. So yes, I would rather start grooming a young QB.. You think all teams that have to start over at QB wait till they get a line to do it ? We cant wait till we get a line then get a QB, that could take years. You have to get the young QB going NOW, if its Romo then we are ahead.. But if Bledsoe stays here 2 years it will seriously set this franchise back in the rebuilding process. Look who long it took us to get an average QB like Bledsoe. And I am also tired of once the line falters a little our QB is screwed. We need a QB that can escape pressure, otherwise it will be the same results as last year.

Bledsoe is still going to be the QB next season, I agree Dallas has to find his replacement but Bledsoe is going to QB this team for at least 1 to 2 more years and no I don't think that will set this club back at all. As for the line they did more than just falter a little they sucked big time and without fixing that I don't care who the QB is this offense will continue to struggle until we take care of the people upfront.

 

[Yeagermeister]

Who is going to be our FS? we will have to replace that position but I don't think you say well we can't release him because we have no one. This is the time of the year that you can change that. At 8 mill I don't think Larry is worth that for the 1 season he has left in him, I think you cut your ties and find a replacement who will be around more than 1 more season. As for trading an old OG for a young QB again that is a no brainer. It will also not happen because no one would be dumb enough to make that offer. As far as Larry being a Pro Bowler I have hard times saying that with a stright face, Larry did not deserve is last year and he did not deserves this year.

FS is not as critical as the oline. We got by last year with Davis. The oline needs to be fixed before anything.

 

[acheman]

Can I say YES? But why would the Texans be that stupid?

 

[Doomsday101]

FS is not as critical as the oline. We got by last year with Davis. The oline needs to be fixed before anything.

I agree with that. Bottom line for me is I think Allen is toast, I have defended him for the last few season but after this season I'm no longer going to defend him. He played poorly and is no where close to an irreplaceable player his play is just not that good any longer and it is clearly not worth the money that is due to keep him. I do think he can be replaced and he should be replaced if your intent is to upgrade the line.

 

[kartr]

Houston would be out of their mind to do that.

No. We would be out of minds to do that. Allen is still a better player than Carr late in his career. Carr only plays well against inferior defenses, why do you think the Houston fans want Young, if Carr is so good.

 

[kartr]

Would you trade Rob Petitti for Peyton Manning?

I wouldn't trade Pettitti for David Carr. Some guys have a man-crush for the pretty man qb. He sucks, that's why the fans don't want him.

 

[Chuck 54]

I was talking with a friend yesterday who is a Texans fan and in discussing what Houston should do with the first pick we came up with an idea for a trade that would benefit both teams.
Larry Allen for David Carr straight up. Allen is a perennial pro-bowler whose best days are behind him but he is still a very solid player and would anchor the middle of their line very well.
David Carr is a very good QB who has been getting killed behind the patchwork O-Line in Houston. He would give us our young QB to step in when Bledsoe is done. He has all the skills needed to be a top QB in the league and his toughness is without question.
This would allow Houston to draft Vince Young with the 1st pick in the draft to go along with their fine stable of RBs. He would be better suited to avoiding the rush while they continue to build their O-Line.
The trade would also free up cap space for both teams while filling a much needed spot. (Allen and Carr have similar cap hits but keeping them and trying to fill those spots would mean a bigger hit for each team).
We could then pursue OL in the draft and FA while Houston can move on with the hometown hero while getting good value for Carr.
We would need to renegotiate Carr's contract as I believe he is due an $8M bonus in March so this deal would have to go through before then.
I haven't heard any rumors or anything just postulating a possible trade scenario that would give us a franchise QB without having to give up valuable draft choices while helping us out with the cap at the same time.
Thoughts?

You must think the TExans are insane...Carr, a franchise QB whom they just signed to an extension because they believe in him and don't want Young, for Larry Allen??? That's totally ridiculous...of course we'd make the trade....I'd give them LA at this point in his career and all 3 of our QBs.

Carr is a very good QB who has been exceptional when one considers what he has to play with...anyone who puts him down hasn't even bothered to look at his stats.

The guy is 6'3", 220, has athletic ability and a big arm. The poor guy was sacked an incredible league leading 68 freakin' times this year...the 2nd most sacked guy behind him was Bledsoe with only 49 sacks. Bledsoe had a QB rating of 83. Carr, in only his 4th season without the weapons or protection had a 77 rating and managed to still throw more tds than ints, 14/11.

This guy would do great in a decent system....but they have locked him up.

You guys need to forget the TExans taking Vince Young...they'd be looking at another 3 years of misery and probably ruining any chance the kid has....

 

[Chuck 54]

I wouldn't trade Pettitti for David Carr. Some guys have a man-crush for the pretty man qb. He sucks, that's why the fans don't want him.

ridiculous comments...try looking at his stats. He's better than Bledsoe already.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Don't get rid of a known quantity if you don't have someone as good or better to replace them with is all I'm saying.

I understand but the cap needs to be considered here. If we made a move with Allen, I imagine we could bring in another Guard that is of decent quality. At some point, you gotta make the hard decision and all to often, I see the example of don't cut somebody because we don't have anybody as almost an excuse to do nothing. If you cut the guy, your forced to go improve either by developing somebody or bringing in somebody. JMO.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No. We would be out of minds to do that. Allen is still a better player than Carr late in his career. Carr only plays well against inferior defenses, why do you think the Houston fans want Young, if Carr is so good.

Auhh the Irony...........

 

[THUMPER]

I don't think you folks understand that this deal was predicated on the Texans wanting to draft Young with the 1st pick. It was never simply to trade Carr for Allen, they would be stupid to do that (as many have pointed out). They would also be stupid to select Young while still having Carr on the books.

There have been rumors that they were looking to trade Carr to Miami for Ricky Williams and a 3rd round pick. To me that makes no sense since they already have a couple of good RBs and Ricky isn't going to do squat for their O-Line problems.

The trade I proposed was with the understanding that their new HC, Kubiak, would want to go with the hometown hero Vince Young for a number of reasons:

1. He is a hometown hero which would get the coach off to a good start with the fans.

2. He is much more mobile than Carr and would not need such a serious upgrade of the O-Line as Carr.

3. Having a rookie QB allows the HC to groom him as he wants rather than having to deal with whatever bad habits Carr has picked up so far (the kid has got to be getting gun-shy by now).



The trade allows the Texans to get something for Carr that they desperately need, at least for a couple of years, while eliminating a huge cap hit. They take on Allen's salary but that is only $3.5M next year and $2.5M in 2007, certainly a lot less than if they keep Carr.

We would need to renegotiate Carr's contract prior to paying him the $8M bonus he is due in March but I don't see that as a big problem.

If the Texans decide not to pay Carr his bonus then he is a FA and won't get much for him (I'm assuming he would be a RFA or EFA rather than a UFA but I don't know that for sure).

So if the Texans decide to draft Bush with the first pick or to trade down then there would be no reason to make this trade but if they go with Young then it makes sense. They are NOT going to keep Carr AND draft Young so they have to do something with Carr if they want Young and I think the do.

You guys getting it this time?

 

[Yeagermeister]

I understand but the cap needs to be considered here. If we made a move with Allen, I imagine we could bring in another Guard that is of decent quality. At some point, you gotta make the hard decision and all to often, I see the example of don't cut somebody because we don't have anybody as almost an excuse to do nothing. If you cut the guy, your forced to go improve either by developing somebody or bringing in somebody. JMO.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I just don't see how bringing in Carr to sit on the bench will help. Either Bledsoe or Carr would be one very high priced backup. I'd love to have a young franchise type qb but Bledsoe will still be the starter.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I just don't see how bringing in Carr to sit on the bench will help. Either Bledsoe or Carr would be one very high priced backup. I'd love to have a young franchise type qb but Bledsoe will still be the starter.

I don't think Carr would be a backup. Carr is an excellent QB. He is in a horrible situation. I think it's interesting that Houston had 5 different personel guys sit down and evaluate Carr and his play from last year. All 5 evaluated him the same way. Better option then anything coming out at QB this year. I suppose you are correct thou. We will agree that we disagree with one another on this point. No big deal Yeags.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't think you folks understand that this deal was predicated on the Texans wanting to draft Young with the 1st pick. It was never simply to trade Carr for Allen, they would be stupid to do that (as many have pointed out). They would also be stupid to select Young while still having Carr on the books.
There have been rumors that they were looking to trade Carr to Miami for Ricky Williams and a 3rd round pick. To me that makes no sense since they already have a couple of good RBs and Ricky isn't going to do squat for their O-Line problems.
The trade I proposed was with the understanding that their new HC, Kubiak, would want to go with the hometown hero Vince Young for a number of reasons:
1. He is a hometown hero which would get the coach off to a good start with the fans.
2. He is much more mobile than Carr and would not need such a serious upgrade of the O-Line as Carr.
3. Having a rookie QB allows the HC to groom him as he wants rather than having to deal with whatever bad habits Carr has picked up so far (the kid has got to be getting gun-shy by now).
The trade allows the Texans to get something for Carr that they desperately need, at least for a couple of years, while eliminating a huge cap hit. They take on Allen's salary but that is only $3.5M next year and $2.5M in 2007, certainly a lot less than if they keep Carr.
We would need to renegotiate Carr's contract prior to paying him the $8M bonus he is due in March but I don't see that as a big problem.
If the Texans decide not to pay Carr his bonus then he is a FA and won't get much for him (I'm assuming he would be a RFA or EFA rather than a UFA but I don't know that for sure).
So if the Texans decide to draft Bush with the first pick or to trade down then there would be no reason to make this trade but if they go with Young then it makes sense. They are NOT going to keep Carr AND draft Young so they have to do something with Carr if they want Young and I think the do.
You guys getting it this time?

I got it last time. Texans would be stupid to trade Carr for any 13 year vetran Guard.

 

[THUMPER]

You must think the TExans are insane...Carr, a franchise QB whom they just signed to an extension because they believe in him and don't want Young, for Larry Allen??? That's totally ridiculous...of course we'd make the trade....I'd give them LA at this point in his career and all 3 of our QBs.
Carr is a very good QB who has been exceptional when one considers what he has to play with...anyone who puts him down hasn't even bothered to look at his stats.
The guy is 6'3", 220, has athletic ability and a big arm. The poor guy was sacked an incredible league leading 68 freakin' times this year...the 2nd most sacked guy behind him was Bledsoe with only 49 sacks. Bledsoe had a QB rating of 83. Carr, in only his 4th season without the weapons or protection had a 77 rating and managed to still throw more tds than ints, 14/11.
This guy would do great in a decent system....but they have locked him up.
You guys need to forget the TExans taking Vince Young...they'd be looking at another 3 years of misery and probably ruining any chance the kid has....

Carr will be a FA in March if the Texans decide not to pay him the $8M bonus he is due which will also trigger the additional years to his contract so I don't think you can call that being "locked up".

With their O-Line problems they would be better served by going with Vince Young who is much more mobile and able to make plays on the move than Carr who is a pocket passer. Even if they made this trade and added Allen they would still need 3 more starting caliber OLs to be solid across the line.

A lot will depend on what the Texans' new HC Gary Kubiak will want to do at QB. I think he will want to jetison Carr and go with Young but that is just my opinion. If he does then it would make sense to get what they can for Carr and the opportunity to get an OG like Allen, even this late in his career, would be too good to pass up IMO.

As I said before, if they decide to take Bush or to trade down then the trade makes no sense, it only works if they want Young.

 

[THUMPER]

I got it last time. Texans would be stupid to trade Carr for any 13 year vetran Guard.

So if they select Young in the draft you think they should still hang onto Carr? Now that would be stupid.

 

[THUMPER]

Really, this thread is a waste of board space.

Then why did you respond?

 

[WoodysGirl]

latest from John Clayton:

Bush or Young: The more you hear out of Houston, the Texans may be leaning toward drafting Texas quarterback Vince Young instead of USC running back Reggie Bush. The thinking is that Young is too popular to pass up. He grew up within two miles of Reliant Stadium and is one of the most popular players to come out of Texas. Should the Texans draft him, they would play him behind David Carr for a year or two and give him a chance to develop as a quarterback. The Texans are hoping to get a chance to hire Broncos offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak within the next two weeks. He's the leading candidate for that job.