Would you trade Dak for Baker Mayfield straight up?

millennial_legend

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Have 3 more Lombardi’s in the trophy case
No guarantees at all there. Rodgers hasn't exactly proven to be the most clutch QB in the playoffs. The only time he won a championship was the one year he did have a top 10 defense, along with easily the #1 best receiving corps in football.

When their cheapskates management started letting a bunch of guys go on defense the offseason after they won the SB, their offense played at a record NFL pace the next year and they went 15-1... only to go one-and-done in the playoffs because their defense got so atrocious and they faced an elite pass rushing defense in NYG and Rodgers wasn't good enough to beat it.
 

joseephuss

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Manziel didn't walk on to two D1 programs and start at both. Manziel was groomed to be the next football megastar from HS and he couldnt handle it.

How so? I don't think Manziel was specifcally groomed to be a megastar. He did redshirt. Meanwhile, Mayfield went to one of the top high school football programs in the state. Both guys were 3 star recruits.
 

kskboys

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No guarantees at all there. Rodgers hasn't exactly proven to be the most clutch QB in the playoffs. The only time he won a championship was the one year he did have a top 10 defense, along with easily the #1 best receiving corps in football.

When their cheapskates management started letting a bunch of guys go on defense the offseason after they won the SB, their offense played at a record NFL pace the next year and they went 15-1... only to go one-and-done in the playoffs because their defense got so atrocious and they faced an elite pass rushing defense in NYG and Rodgers wasn't good enough to beat it.
Nicely done. And extremely accurate.

Funny thing is, Rodgers has laid a ton of eggs in the playoffs, but no one talks about it.
 

millennial_legend

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Nicely done. And extremely accurate.

Funny thing is, Rodgers has laid a ton of eggs in the playoffs, but no one talks about it.
And let's not forget that, in the season (2010-11) he won the championship, Rodgers struggled with accuracy pretty bad the first half of that season even with that great receiving corps. They were in danger of missing the playoffs and barely made it in and finished 10-6 and got a wild card only because the Bears had a bigger choker in Jay Cutler.

Even since his MVP season in 2014, he's had several stretches where he's really struggled with accuracy inexplicably. After a blazing 6-0 start in 2015, his accuracy was mediocre middling-NFL tier the rest of that season, and they finished the year 4-6 even including the one miracle win in Detroit with the Rodgers-to-Rodgers hail mary. Even though Rodgers wasn't injured at all that season.

His accuracy issues got even worse in the 2016 season. Green Bay started off that season 3-6 before Rodgers finally woke up and they ran the table, mostly against an easy schedule and a weak division, and they rode that momentum all the way to the NFC Championship game where Atlanta blew them off the field badly.

Rodgers is a great QB and instoppable when he's on one of his hot streaks, but the fact that he's had so many cold streaks throughout his career, to me makes him a Tier 2 all time QB, not a Tier 1. He'll make the HOF, but he'll be shades below the Brady's and Montana's of the league. Even below Staubach and possibly a shade below Aikman and Favre, especially if he doesn't win another title.

It also remains to be seen if his mobility outside of the pocket will be affected by last year's brutal injury. He might be a little run-shy after taking that hit on one of his signature roll-out plays. He's never been the best pocket passer, though he might be the best out-of-pocket passer I've ever seen. But if his escapability is affected by the past setback, Green Bay's offense will struggle quite a bit at times going forward.
 

kskboys

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And let's not forget that, in the season (2010-11) he won the championship, Rodgers struggled with accuracy pretty bad the first half of that season even with that great receiving corps. They were in danger of missing the playoffs and barely made it in and finished 10-6 and got a wild card only because the Bears had a bigger choker in Jay Cutler.

Even since his MVP season in 2014, he's had several stretches where he's really struggled with accuracy inexplicably. After a blazing 6-0 start in 2015, his accuracy was mediocre middling-NFL tier the rest of that season, and they finished the year 4-6 even including the one miracle win in Detroit with the Rodgers-to-Rodgers hail mary. Even though Rodgers wasn't injured at all that season.

His accuracy issues got even worse in the 2016 season. Green Bay started off that season 3-6 before Rodgers finally woke up and they ran the table, mostly against an easy schedule and a weak division, and they rode that momentum all the way to the NFC Championship game where Atlanta blew them off the field badly.

Rodgers is a great QB and instoppable when he's on one of his hot streaks, but the fact that he's had so many cold streaks throughout his career, to me makes him a Tier 2 all time QB, not a Tier 1. He'll make the HOF, but he'll be shades below the Brady's and Montana's of the league. Even below Staubach and possibly a shade below Aikman and Favre, especially if he doesn't win another title.

It also remains to be seen if his mobility outside of the pocket will be affected by last year's brutal injury. He might be a little run-shy after taking that hit on one of his signature roll-out plays. He's never been the best pocket passer, though he might be the best out-of-pocket passer I've ever seen. But if his escapability is affected by the past setback, Green Bay's offense will struggle quite a bit at times going forward.
Good stuff.

Yeah, I'm not arguing that Rodgers isn't great, he is. However, I completely agree w/ you that he's tier 2 great.

From observing Rodgers, offhand I'd say that he's extremely OCD and just doesn't handle things well when they don't go his way. He doesn't flip out near as bad as Cutler, and doesn't show it, but IMO he does flip out.
 

Cowboysfan917

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No guarantees at all there. Rodgers hasn't exactly proven to be the most clutch QB in the playoffs. The only time he won a championship was the one year he did have a top 10 defense, along with easily the #1 best receiving corps in football.

When their cheapskates management started letting a bunch of guys go on defense the offseason after they won the SB, their offense played at a record NFL pace the next year and they went 15-1... only to go one-and-done in the playoffs because their defense got so atrocious and they faced an elite pass rushing defense in NYG and Rodgers wasn't good enough to beat it.
I get that it’s not a guarantee but there is no argument that it would be a vast improvement over the current situation
 

millennial_legend

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Good stuff.

Yeah, I'm not arguing that Rodgers isn't great, he is. However, I completely agree w/ you that he's tier 2 great.

From observing Rodgers, offhand I'd say that he's extremely OCD and just doesn't handle things well when they don't go his way. He doesn't flip out near as bad as Cutler, and doesn't show it, but IMO he does flip out.
Extremely OCD is very accurate. A big part of his game relies on gimmick tactics like fake hiking 10 times per drive in hopes that he'll draw an offsides and buy a free play/free shot downfield. Or, he'll fake-reroute a receiver, get the safety or linebacker to bite, and then revert back just in time to catch the defense panicking.

When it doesn't work, his offense is much more likely to stall out.
 

millennial_legend

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I'd still take Brady over Rodgers.
Absolutely.

Without Brady right now the Pats are a 5-11 team. Just look at their meh roster. Brian Hoyer would be their QB. It's not at all like 2008 when Brady went down and they still went 10-5 because they had Moss, other elite talent on offense, and a top 15 defense.
 

kskboys

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Absolutely.

Without Brady right now the Pats are a 5-11 team. Just look at their meh roster. Brian Hoyer would be their QB. It's not at all like 2008 when Brady went down and they still went 10-5 because they had Moss, other elite talent on offense, and a top 15 defense.
The Pats 07 D was 4th. And the O was stacked. All Cassell had to do was drive the bus, and he missed the playoffs at 11-5.
 

Hardline

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I would make the trade so fast it would make your head spin.
A franchise QB for a bus driver. Easy call
 

CODE_BLUE56

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This is a silly question to ask regarding a QB who hasn't played a single regular season game yet. Let's say we have the same team we do now in 2002. Do you trade Dak for David Carr?

Or, on the other side of things, how much better does a Dak-Deshaun Watson trade look after seeing what he can do with the Texans?

A player's transition to the NFL is hardly an exact science. Not to mention that QBs take longer to develop than,say,a RB.

Let's see how Baker does. Cleveland might actually not be a total dumpster fire this season...
 

millennial_legend

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The Pats 07 D was 4th. And the O was stacked. All Cassell had to do was drive the bus, and he missed the playoffs at 11-5.
Exactly... 08, you mean. But yes. Missing the playoffs at 11-5 is as rare as a full solar eclipse. It's about like winning 50 games in the NBA or 95 in the MLB and still missing the playoffs.
 

losersgetcute

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If you're going to take Brady, you must have an elite OL and receivers who create separation quickly.
And film, more than your typical game film.
Have to have a needle also. Brady once tried to sing...he sounded flat.
 

jay94

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Cleveland won't be a dumpster fire this year, for what they have been in years past 6 wins, which yes by most accords that would be a defeat, but this team hasn't won one game in two years. Purely talent I would take this trade, I still believe in Dak, I also believe that Mayfield will be something, Cleveland actually did something right, setting up the Oline and having some weapons before just going qb, qb, qb, with no talent.
 

armadillooutlaw

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Good stuff.

Yeah, I'm not arguing that Rodgers isn't great, he is. However, I completely agree w/ you that he's tier 2 great.

From observing Rodgers, offhand I'd say that he's extremely OCD and just doesn't handle things well when they don't go his way. He doesn't flip out near as bad as Cutler, and doesn't show it, but IMO he does flip out.
I'd take Favre over Rodgers personally.
 

Mountaineerfan

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Cleveland won't be a dumpster fire this year, for what they have been in years past 6 wins, which yes by most accords that would be a defeat, but this team hasn't won one game in two years. Purely talent I would take this trade, I still believe in Dak, I also believe that Mayfield will be something, Cleveland actually did something right, setting up the Oline and having some weapons before just going qb, qb, qb, with no talent.

Vegas had them at 4.5 games last I checked. I would probably take that over all day.
 
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