Yet another NM Law Enforcement Issue

[Denim Chicken]

You don't think she did anything wrong? The cop who fired his gun was definitely in the wrong, but the officer who initially pulled her over didn't. She acted poorly and put herself, her kids and others in danger. If not for her behavior this entire incident doesn't occur. She deserves 90% of the blame and the cop who shot his gun gets the other 10%. The cop who pulled her over to start didn't do anything wrong.

I would say the first cop may have shown a tad of poor judgement bashing the window like that, but agree with your post except for the ratios of blame--to start firing a gun brings it to a new level.

 

[joseephuss]

I would say the first cop may have shown a tad of poor judgement bashing the window like that, but agree with your post except for the ratios of blame--to start firing a gun brings it to a new level.

Sorry, but he started bashing the window only after she ran away the first time and then after she ran back into the car when he tried to arrest her. He didn't do it during the initial stop or even to begin the second time he pulled her over. It was after she hid in her car a second time. Her running changed everything. I give her 90% because if not for her escalating the situation it never gets to the point of the dumb cop pulling out the gun or even other cops being called to the scene.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Sorry, but he started bashing the window only after she ran away the first time and then after she ran back into the car when he tried to arrest her. He didn't do it during the initial stop or even to begin the second time he pulled her over. It was after she hid in her car a second time. Her running changed everything. I give her 90% because if not for her escalating the situation it never gets to the point of the dumb cop pulling out the gun or even other cops being called to the scene.

I see what your saying, I just don't see things that way. A kid sticks his tongue out at you so you punch him in the face--sure, he shouldn't have stuck his tongue out, but come on!

There are going to be instances where people do dumb things--that's what police should be trained for--but you can't give them a pass for reacting disproportionately, especially when it puts innocent lives in danger.

 

[joseephuss]

I see what your saying, I just don't see things that way. A kid sticks his tongue out at you so you punch him in the face--sure, he shouldn't have stuck his tongue out, but come on!

There are going to be instances where people do dumb things--that's what police should be trained for--but you can't give them a pass for reacting disproportionately, especially when it puts innocent lives in danger.

I don't give the cop who shot his gun a pass. He is an idiot, but he never even gets called to the scene if not for her actions. Actions cause reactions. Even bad reactions. If she doesn't act, then there is no room for a dumb reaction of a cop firing off his gun. I give him plenty of blame. Of the cops on the scene he deserves 100% of the blame for acting poorly.

I don't have a problem with the first officer trying to break the window. That became a necessity due to her and her dumb sons actions.

 

[Tabascocat]

Well, I asked my brother-in-law to watch the video. He is a detective in Houston and wanted his thoughts. Yall know my stance and here is his........

He said both officers were wrong, but not only in their reactions. The first officer handled it wrong from the start. Once she ran the first time, it is no longer a routine traffic stop. The first officer should have had her in handcuffs in his backseat(failure #1) while waiting for help after the first attempt to drive off. If the boy came out of the vehicle after his mother was in the backseat, then he joins her. He let the situation get out of control. The second officer should have pulled in front of her car knowing full well she tried to run once. That is failure #2.

He also said the shooting of the tires is not protocol(told me I watch too much TV) but is not as dangerous(as it appears) to the children as the first officer beating the window in. The chances of a stray bullet bouncing off the ground and up 70 degrees and hooking right into the window is almost impossible. He did say that he should have never drawn his weapon and it was a reactionary decision based on another officers ineptitude. The beating on the window was absolutely wrong with children right there.

The woman was wrong but it should have never come to what transpired if the first officer did his job correctly. He thinks both should be suspended w/o pay until further investigation but there is a lot of gray area and political tape to sift through.

 

[joseephuss]

The first officer was trying to get her into handcuffs after he had to pull her over the second time. Maybe he should have been more forceful and not let her escape, but he was in the process of cuffing her when she ran and then her son came out acting like a tough guy. Here is an easy prediction. That young man will end up in jail someday. Beating in the glass isn't that dangerous. It is safety glass that will shatter into smaller pieces and maybe create a few small cuts. The guy who shot was just dumb and is an obvious danger to everyone.

 

[BigStar]

Well, I asked my brother-in-law to watch the video. He is a detective in Houston and wanted his thoughts. Yall know my stance and here is his........

He said both officers were wrong, but not only in their reactions. The first officer handled it wrong from the start. Once she ran the first time, it is no longer a routine traffic stop. The first officer should have had her in handcuffs in his backseat(failure #1) while waiting for help after the first attempt to drive off. If the boy came out of the vehicle after his mother was in the backseat, then he joins her. He let the situation get out of control. The second officer should have pulled in front of her car knowing full well she tried to run once. That is failure #2.

He also said the shooting of the tires is not protocol(told me I watch too much TV) but is not as dangerous(as it appears) to the children as the first officer beating the window in. The chances of a stray bullet bouncing off the ground and up 70 degrees and hooking right into the window is almost impossible. He did say that he should have never drawn his weapon and it was a reactionary decision based on another officers ineptitude. The beating on the window was absolutely wrong with children right there.

The woman was wrong but it should have never come to what transpired if the first officer did his job correctly. He thinks both should be suspended w/o pay until further investigation but there is a lot of gray area and political tape to sift through.

Most of the tension related to this specific event and others like it are that most citizens are simply looking for the proper blame to place; the potential criminal or the law enforcement officer. Police are given positions with government "authority" ONLY because they are sworn to uphold the higher standards put forth on law enforcement in order to maintain this democratic republic. Police are not to be held to the same simple standards that apply to a common citizen. Blame cannot be used as justification for police ineptitude and aggressive military like tactics to relatively "safe" situations as witnessed on the video. A mom and young teen "acting out" doesn't warrant military or deadly force.

 

[joseephuss]

Most of the tension related to this specific event and others like it are that most citizens are simply looking for the proper blame to place; the potential criminal or the law enforcement officer. Police are given positions with government "authority" ONLY because they are sworn to uphold the higher standards put forth on law enforcement in order to maintain this democratic republic. Police are not to be held to the same simple standards that apply to a common citizen. Blame cannot be used as justification for police ineptitude and aggressive military like tactics to relatively "safe" situations as witnessed on the video. A mom and young teen "acting out" doesn't warrant military or deadly force.

"Acting out"? That teen attacked the officer. That is more than acting out. Nothing excuses the one dolt cop for firing his gun, but the other officers did not do anything wrong.

 

[heavyg]

Lets agree the officer who fired the gun is an idiot. But, lets also agree if this mother and son had not acted the way they did it would NEVER have gotten to that point. In regards to the Detective's opinion I am in no position to question him. However, to me it did look like the first officer was attempting to take the mother into custody but then had to deal with the 14 year trying to stop him. At that point it was going to escalate one way or another.

 

[Longboysfan]

Going in the opposite direction?

How hard is it to put it in reverse.

 

[Longboysfan]

So shoot first ask questions later?

Don't you people get it. The women had a wepon in her hands and was using it - CAR.
The Police who came after may... MAY not have known there were 5 kids in the Van.

But if it comes down to her using it against the police and them getting flattened - Shoot first.

Video shows the one officer shot at tires.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Don't you people get it. The women had a wepon in her hands and was using it - CAR.
The Police who came after may... MAY not have known there were 5 kids in the Van.

But if it comes down to her using it against the police and them getting flattened - Shoot first.

Video shows the one officer shot at tires.

Sorry, but that is so stupid. The woman was not using the car as a weapon. You can't just assume because she could have thrown it in reverse the appropriate response is to start shooting--if that was the case EVERY CAR EVER PULLED OVER IS A POTENTIAL WEAPON and the cops should approach every traffic stop with guns drawn. You're obviously reaching for justification and looking more foolish in the process.

Yes, the cop who came later may not have known their were kids in the car. But, um, don't you think that might be something to take into consideration before just shooting.

 

[BigStar]

"Acting out"? That teen attacked the officer. That is more than acting out. Nothing excuses the one dolt cop for firing his gun, but the other officers did not do anything wrong.

By your loose definition of "attack", the PO ATTACKED the mother first...? If the police can't keep cool while under "attack" from a small n skinny teenager they aren't suitable to be POs, it's really that simple. It also doesn't show the "iron nerves" that POs supposedly possess.

 

[BigStar]

Don't you people get it. The women had a wepon in her hands and was using it - CAR.
The Police who came after may... MAY not have known there were 5 kids in the Van.

But if it comes down to her using it against the police and them getting flattened - Shoot first.

Video shows the one officer shot at tires.

That was just cowardly, gimme a break. If PO's are so timid and SCARED punks like these PO's displayed around "potential violence" they aren't qualified for the job.

 

[BigStar]

The first officer was trying to get her into handcuffs after he had to pull her over the second time. Maybe he should have been more forceful and not let her escape, but he was in the process of cuffing her when she ran and then her son came out acting like a tough guy. Here is an easy prediction. That young man will end up in jail someday. Beating in the glass isn't that dangerous. It is safety glass that will shatter into smaller pieces and maybe create a few small cuts. The guy who shot was just dumb and is an obvious danger to everyone.

Evidently he took the small skinny teenager as a "tough guy" that you mock him to be, "no officer continue abusing my mother, I will wait quietly for direction" what Andy Griffith town did you grow up in? They aggressivley started bashing the windows while witnessin children in the car. They seemed quite FRIGHTENED of this little teen and his MOM. COWARDS

 

[joseephuss]

Evidently he took the small skinny teenager as a "tough guy" that you mock him to be, "no officer continue abusing my mother, I will wait quietly for direction" what Andy Griffith town did you grow up in? They aggressivley started bashing the windows while witnessin children in the car. They seemed quite FRIGHTENED of this little teen and his MOM. COWARDS

The officer wasn't abusing the mother in any way. What a reach. Screw that lady and her dumb son. Both will see plenty of time in jail over the life times. Those other poor children don't stand a chance with such terrible role models.

 

[BigStar]

The officer wasn't abusing the mother in any way. What a reach. Screw that lady and her dumb son. Both will see plenty of time in jail over the life times. Those other poor children don't stand a chance with such terrible role models.

Well your definition of the "attack" on the PO is just as big a stretch, no? You seem to think POs can be as rough as they want but God forbid a skinny teen even attempt to separate the "macho" officer from his mother? So "attack" when the teen is involved, but not even a "little rough" for the cop's aggressive physical actions?

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Firing on the minivan full of children is ridiculous, and unforgivable. Short of that, though, that woman--and her son's--behavior is insanely stupid.

Did he fire into the minivan or did he fire at the tires?

Big difference, imo.

If he was firing at the tires, i really don't see anything wrong with any of the actions here. People think they can do whatever the hell they want nowadays and don't have to listen to authority.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Either is wrong. You don't shoot at a car full of kids, regardless of where you're aiming.

I disagree and think this line of reasoning is asinine.

I don't know if you've ever fired a gun or have been trained to fire a gun, but if you're a police officer and you're shooting at a target 3 feet in front of you, there's almost no way that if he was trying to shoot at the tires he'd misfire bad enough to get anywhere near the body of any person in that van.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Well your definition of the "attack" on the PO is just as big a stretch, no? You seem to think POs can be as rough as they want but God forbid a skinny teen even attempt to separate the "macho" officer from his mother? So "attack" when the teen is involved, but not even a "little rough" for the cop's aggressive physical actions?

Clear bias in this post.

The "skinny teen" was pretty much the same size as the "macho" officer.. don't know how you can't see that from the video.