YR's My Meaningless Thoughts On The Cowboys' Talent...

[Yakuza Rich]

- The past 4 weeks have been pretty brutal to watch. We lost a lead against the lowly Commanders and the defense showed some cracks to it. Then we were outplayed by the Dolphins at home in Thanksgiving and won, seemingly because the Dolphins lost in a way that the Cowboys often lose games…and did it with former Cowboys players and coaches. Then we have ‘evil’ Jason Garrett return to Arizona where we abandon the run, use shotgun way too often. Then we have the Giants game where our old enemy, Eli, kills us again in Dallas.

Unfortunately, it becomes overreaction time and I don’t enjoy the forum as much because I know what I’m going to read. “Jerry sucks”, “the players don’t fear anybody”, ‘we don’t have any talent”, etc. It will all come back to Jerry. Quite frankly, I’ve heard it so many times that I can practically tell who will say what. And I’m not Kreskin. It’s hardly enlightening or interesting anymore. But as I like to say, it’s much easier for people to spout off meaningless platitudes than it is to understand the true complexities of a situation.

First, I think the statements that ‘we don’t have any talent’ or anything like that, usually a big shot at Jerry, is very misguided. Do you think Ware is a talent? How about Spencer? Sean Lee? Gerald Sensabaugh? Mike Jenkins? Jay Ratliff? Witten? Romo? Miles? Dez? Laurent? Tyron? Murray? Felix?

Only a blind fool would think that these players are not talented. So, where is the problem? I think it has to do more with chemistry and more with the overall picture of the players we try to get than anything else.

The Cowboys tend to look more for physical talents that have had success in the past, be it in college or with another NFL team. Everything else comes second. The good news is that we generally avoid ‘workout warriors’ that don’t really understand football. The bad news is that we often pass up on smart players who are tough because when you don’t have quite the athletic skills, you have to make up for it with smarts and toughness.

But, it’s not only that. There are other issues as well. For instance, I can’t remember the last time we had a really good tackling cornerback. Put it this way, if we had the choice between taking Deion Sanders or Rod Woodson, we would ALWAYS take Deion Sanders. The problem is that it creates a hole in the defense when the corners can’t tackle that well. Particularly in today’s NFL which is becoming more and more ‘dial in a blitz and switch the zone coverage look 3 or 4 times.’ However, that presents the problem that we also have…outside of Jenkins, nobody else can play man-to-man well on a consistent basis.

Same with the ILB. I love Sean Lee and all, but he has to play deeper zone coverage because we can’t leave that responsibility with Bradie James (who I still like). The possibilities of what we could do if Bruce Carter is somewhat close to being as advertised, an athletic ILB who can cover the deep zone and play the run while Lee could play short and intermediate zone coverage is tantalizing. But until then, we have a talent in Sean Lee that can’t be used to its full potential because the chemistry isn’t there.

Unfortunately, fans think about chemistry in terms of players ‘getting along with each other.’ But, where chemistry is really important is how well a player’s strengths and weaknesses mesh with the rest of the team. If there’s something we need to get from Garrett, it needs to be getting Jerry and the scouting department to look beyond talent. Contrary to those popular platitudes, talent is not an issue.






YR

 

[starfrombirth]

- However, that presents the problem that we also have…outside of Jenkins, nobody else can play man-to-man well on a consistent basis.

Same with the ILB. I love Sean Lee and all, but he has to play deeper zone coverage because we can’t leave that responsibility with Bradie James (who I still like). The possibilities of what we could do if Bruce Carter is somewhat close to being as advertised, an athletic ILB who can cover the deep zone and play the run while Lee could play short and intermediate zone coverage is tantalizing. But until then, we have a talent in Sean Lee that can’t be used to its full potential because the chemistry isn’t there.

YR

Everything you talked about here refers to talent NOT chemistry. You're usually very informative YR but you double speaked yourself here. As someone else said yesterday, the lack of talent of most positions overcomes the supreme Talent at the few. Ill address some of the names you mentiond because I think we can all agree on the big names: Ware, Witten, Romo, Lee, and for the most part Ratliff although I'm still not completely sold on him either.

You mentioned Dez. Is he talented? Physically, he is absolutely talented but mentally he hasn't grasped the game and disappears for large stretches of the game. I'll leave the in depth explanation to Couchscout but the evidence is there for all to see, so NO i don't consider him talented in the right way.

Miles... again, talented physically and he is a great route runner but he has been injured the majorithy of his career except for one year and he missed time in that one. If he can't stay on the field, then his talent is wasted so you can't consider him a talent.

The offensive line... I address this mostly as a unit because it takes the whole unit to funtion properly and this one isn't. Outside of Tyron the whole unit looks like a bunch of scrubs. If Tony wasn't so freakishly elusive we would be leading the league in sacks given up every year. No this line isn't talented.

Phillips and Bennett... One can't block and the other can't run routes, no they aren't talented either.

Murry.... without Fiametta, I'm not sure he is as good as we all jumped to the conclusion of. I think he's good but the jury is still out on him.

Felix... This dude is as talented a running back as there is in the league but as with Miles.. He keeps missing time. Talents a waste if you can't stay on the field.

Defense:
Ratliff... I'm going to start here because he is the most controversial of my picks of lack of talent. He is physically and mentally gifted. There is no denying that but I don't care what anyone says, he is undersized for the position he is asked to maintain here. Yes he is dominant at times for short spurts. Thats the only way he can be because he can't just hold his own play after play for the whole game. I watched him get pushed around by the Giants oline for most of the game and they were a bunch of scrubs supposedly in worse condition than our oline. The rest of the dline (Coleman, Lissemore, Hatcher, Spears) are jag's. There is nothing special about any of them.

Linebackers.. Outside of Lee, who is there? James, Brookings? They are old and used up. I really like them as people and what they have represented for the game but they can't man the positionn anymore, leaving Lee to do it by himself.

Carter.. No one know if he is going to pan out. He certainly hasn't to this point. Yes I know he's been injured but that doesn't his talent is being used right now. We don't actually know if he is an NFL talent or not yet.

Cornerbacks.. OMG! Where do we start on this one. We talk about Jenkins being talented. Really?!? That dude is always injured too and when he isn't he's getting toasted repeatedly. He may be the most talented cb on this team but that isn't saying much. There isn't a quarterback in the league who is afraid to throw in his direction.

Newman.. He is playing worse than Alan Ball if that tells you anything. He has been beat so much even he is scared. That's why he gives 10 yard cushions to the 3rd string wr on a 5 yard out. He has straight line speed still but he can't make cuts to defend and he knows it.

Scandrick.. Has gotten the penalty yips I'm afraid. He was good but he's lost it and until "it" comes back, he isn't considered a talent either. His only saving grace is that he is a great, not good, but great tackler.

You also mentioned Sensabaugh and Elam as being talented. Come on YR. You're better than that. Sensabaugh is better than what he had but as far as being talented, he is slow and doesn't maintain good angles to keep the WR from getting behind him. Elam is smart but not athletic enough to cover for all the other secondary deficiencies


So there you have it. I count 5 players that are talented and contribute for us all game long every game. That's an atrocious amount. You can debate it all you want but as another member posted: My eyes can't see what your saying. The evidence is all there for all of us to see and we need some major help.

 

[diehard2294]

Good read YR.... A few things. I don't see what you like about Bradie? You can't argue his leadership and toughness but while he has "stats" in Years past he suffers getting sideline to sideline. He is at the crossroads this year.

You are dead on about the corners and tackling ...it has to change and as much as Jenkins sticks his head in there he usually comes away hurt...

Newman he's getting blocked or held

We do have talent in spots...but we also have spots we are lacking big-time

I believe Garrett is changing the draft mentality around Valley Ranch and this year we draft defense hard with the same mentality as last

 

[canters]

Good read as usual. We do have some talent, esp on offense. We need a C and G and we could be set until Romo gets too old to play.

The D is another story-we have too many solid NFL players and not enough very good players. Solid players tend to give up big plays when we need them to instead make a play and get off the field. Very good to great NFL players take over games and make everyone around them better. We are two drafts and a FA or two from getting enough great or very good players to let us compete in December.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Everything you talked about here refers to talent NOT chemistry. You're usually very informative YR but you double speaked yourself here.

I don't think I've double-talked once.

I think you're missing the point that no team has all of these players that can do it all. That doesn't mean those teams are not talented, but they have found counterparts that mesh well together.

If you read stuff about the Steelers, they basically signed Ryan Clark to direct Polamalu where to be. It was no coincidence that Polamalu has BIG struggles in coverage early on in his career. And Clark isn't exactly some super talented player. But, when you combine the two you get a lethal combination because Clark knows where to direct Polamalu and Polamalu has so much physical skills and football ability that it can make up for more than enough of any skills or abilities that Clark doesn't have. It was the same way when Woody was here with Roy Williams.

As far as the rest, I'm not going to argue with you because I just disagree too much with your sentiments.








YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Good read YR.... A few things. I don't see what you like about Bradie? You can't argue his leadership and toughness but while he has "stats" in Years past he suffers getting sideline to sideline. He is at the crossroads this year.

He's still good at taking on blockers. Not as good as he once was, but still good at it. And that's a nasty job that 99% of linebackers don't want to do, nor do it week-to-week. He can also play short zone coverage and is serviceable. So, you can use him on first and 2nd down and in short yardage.

I think he could still have a spot on this team next year, although Brooking will have to be cut (a guy who has played A LOT better in the past month). He may still be pretty pricey for what he can do. We'd have to go with Carter and Lee as starters with Bradie subbing in occasionally to give one a breather or when one is hurting. Still need 1 more ILB for special teams although the team seems to like Albright.







YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

The D is another story-we have too many solid NFL players and not enough very good players. Solid players tend to give up big plays when we need them to instead make a play and get off the field. Very good to great NFL players take over games and make everyone around them better. We are two drafts and a FA or two from getting enough great or very good players to let us compete in December.

I think Ratliff is a great player (Pro Football Focus thinks so as well) and so is Ware. I think Lee is bordering on great, but is...out of position a bit. I think Jenkins could be great...but, Wade's laissez faire attitude with him is the exact opposite of what he needs from his Head Coach. I still think he's been having a very good season.

I think our issue on defense is that we need help from the DE position, we need better tackling corners and we need more team speed.

If you look at the best 3-4 teams over the years, they usually had at least 1 DE that was really good. We have never had that.

Re-watching the games on NFL Rewind, we are not getting much help from our corners on the run. While I like Jenkins and Scandrick, their tackling is suspect at best. Plus, if you want to improve the toughness of your team...make the position that is generally the softest (cornerback)...tougher. And if you look at the championship teams over the years, they have generally had good tackling corners (Packers, Saints, Steelers, Colts)

And the team speed shows up, particularly on special teams. I have noticed that we've gotten better in coverage once Carter has been a full-time special teams player.









YR

 

[Outlaw Heroes]

The bad news is that we often pass up on smart players who are tough because when you don’t have quite the athletic skills, you have to make up for it with smarts and toughness.

Isn't Sean Lee a player in the mold you describe? Laurent Robinson? Kowalski? Nagy? Some might describe Scandrick as a smart/tough player that manages to overcome less than elite athletic ability.


I'm not ripping on your post. It's interesting. I'm just not sure that it's right.

 

[RS12]

This team has been vulnerable in the middle of the field on defense, and in the middle of the O Line for years. That didnt change this year so you have the same results. To me that is lack of talent not chemistry.

 

[Idgit]

love posts like this. I agree with the criticism implied, too. Though I think we made a conscious move to address these problems in our last draft, we've just got farther to go. This team isn't all that far from playing a 13-3 type season. And, yes, I know the line between that and 6-10 isn't all that significant. Still, I like our direction.

 

[casmith07]

I really agree on tackling CBs. Newman's been our best tackling CB as far back as I can remember and even he isn't among the best.

I was really hoping that Champ Bailey would be looking to leave Denver last year, but I guess that wasn't in the cards.

Morris Claiborne from LSU is tough as nails.

 

[casmith07]

But, when you combine the two you get a lethal combination because Clark knows where to direct Polamalu and Polamalu has so much physical skills and football ability that it can make up for more than enough of any skills or abilities that Clark doesn't have. It was the same way when Woody was here with Roy Williams.

Get outta my head, YR!

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Isn't Sean Lee a player in the mold you describe? Laurent Robinson? Kowalski? Nagy? Some might describe Scandrick as a smart/tough player that manages to overcome less than elite athletic ability.


I'm not ripping on your post. It's interesting. I'm just not sure that it's right.

We'll see on Laurent, Kowalski and Nagy.

I don't think Scandrick is overly smart, but does seem tough.

I do believe that Lee is an incredibly smart and tough player.

But, that's kinda of the issue...2-3 'smart and tough' players doesn't mean your team will be 'smart and tough.' Far from it.

So on that point, that's where there might be a silver lining as Garrett has been willing to bring in and promote smart and tough players and make that a priority over the physically gifted players.









YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

This team has been vulnerable in the middle of the field on defense, and in the middle of the O Line for years. That didnt change this year so you have the same results. To me that is lack of talent not chemistry.

So, Sean Lee, Elam and Sensy stink?

I don't think Elam is overly talented, but I think he's an incredibly smart player. I think Sensy is a physical talent...but is not that smart of a player. While we can rip on the defense, I think the safety play is the best its been in Dallas in a long time. Why?

Chemistry.

Elam can direct Sensy around and Sensy has the athletic ability to make plays.

As far as the interior of the O-Line, I think Costa is the main problem and I think Kosier's pass protection is inconsistent more than anything. I've re-watched the games and Holland has actually looked pretty good there.














YR

 

[goshan]

I am not sure I see the point. I agree we have talent - but I think we have some of the types of guys you are talking about (smart, tough guys).

Oscan is a great tackler at corner and really tough for his size, and talented in my opinion. So he should fit the bill of what you are looking for, even though he gets beat on man coverage.

The type of player you are describing is a Bradie James - smart/tough/hard working. He doesn't seem to work in this scheme and he is aging.

Sean Lee is a finesse player with very good quickness, read/react skills and some of the best hand-eye coordination you will see. But he isn't an intimidating type player. I see him as more talent than tough.

Ratliff makes some big plays is tough, but lacks consistent push.

Ware is super talented but seems to wear down toward the end of the season.

Spencer is extremely talented but is missing something.

 

[Dcowboy84]

I think our issue on defense is that we need help from the DE position, we need better tackling corners and we need more team speed.

If you look at the best 3-4 teams over the years, they usually had at least 1 DE that was really good. We have never had that.


YR

bingo YR, i think these are huge areas where we are lacking.

it's why i thought of all the free agents out there last year the #1 on my list was Cullen Jenkins as a DE. whether he would have worked out or not who knows but i felt that was our main weak spot on defense.

i realize everyone always says that a DE in a 3-4 just needs to 'hold his spot' and blah blah blah....but if you can get a guy who can be a real threat it changes how the offenses operate. right now with the exception of some good plays from Hatcher we don't get much at all out of the DE position. and you can tell the offenses don't fear the guys we have because they pretty much single them up and focus all their blocking schemes on stopping Ware and Spencer (mainly Ware).

we always hear about no pressure up the middle and blame Ratliff getting pushed off the ball, but i really believe that another part of that is from the DE. again because our guys can all be singled up they double Rat most of the time too.

now do we go with the ever popular answer of moving Rat to DE next year and getting a big elephant for the NT position? easier said than done really unless Brent turns himself into a consistent beast who can hold his position.

are there any beasts at the DE or NT position coming out in the draft? i haven't done enough looking into the draft yet but it doesn't seem like there are a lot of names you're already hearing about. and with how many teams are going to 3-4 it's not like if a beast emerges he'll just be passed over and handed to us b/c it's a sought-after position.

so who knows....we really have so many holes that can be filled it will be interesting to see which way it goes....

with the dead money that's going to hit next years cap i don't know how much space we'll have, or even who the free agents will be that we could look at for this position. and the draft? i'm starting to think more than ever that this year needs to be focused on BPA, mainly on defense. in all honesty i don't think there is but 2-3 positions maybe where taking the BPA would be a bad thing.

 

[Outlaw Heroes]

So, Sean Lee, Elam and Sensy stink?

I don't think Elam is overly talented, but I think he's an incredibly smart player. I think Sensy is a physical talent...but is not that smart of a player. While we can rip on the defense, I think the safety play is the best its been in Dallas in a long time. Why?

Chemistry.

Elam can direct Sensy around and Sensy has the athletic ability to make plays.

I agree. Elam is also another of those players that you identify that get by more on football smarts and toughness than on athletic ability.
The archetype, in my mind, is a guy like Teddy Bruschi, who was the heart and soul of the NE defense, back when that was the strength of their team. I hope you're right and that Garrett is bringing more of these types of players in.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I am not sure I see the point. I agree we have talent - but I think we have some of the types of guys you are talking about (smart, tough guys).

I think we have some, but not enough. And not enough of a mesh at the right positions.

We do a pretty good job at safety with it. Elam has the smarts, Sensy has the athleticism. But at corner we have the talent, particularly in coverage, but not much in the way of tackling (Scandrick is a suspect tackler and really isn't a factor in the run). So, we don't blitz as well as we should from the CB spot and don't get much help in the run. If we had somebody who was a really good blitzer and good at helping out with the run, but a little less in coverage...it might improve our defense quite a bit.

Lee is very talented, tough and smart. But, he's not a deep zone coverage ILB. Bradie is very good against the run, stuffing blockers and a serviceable short zone coverage ILB. We don't have anything there to really mesh with Lee or Bradie.

The talent is there, it's just that we miss out on having talent that fits responsibilities and thus our talent isn't quite in the position to do what it does best.

And yes, Jerry does deserve blame for this. But, saying that he can't find talent is just inaccurate.







YR

 

[STSINAZ]

listen here it is in a nutshell...we dont need help at Rb or receiver or Te for that matter...we need:

to flip free and smith....get rid of kosier, find out if nagy, kowalski, arkin or costa can play in the offseason...replace accordingly

cut newman, brooking, james, let spencer go....replace james with carter, get another starting corner and OLB that can truely get to the QB....AND get a DE than can put some pressure on the pocket...

thats all we need to do...do all of that and you may win some games

 

[Stautner]

- The past 4 weeks have been pretty brutal to watch. We lost a lead against the lowly Commanders and the defense showed some cracks to it. Then we were outplayed by the Dolphins at home in Thanksgiving and won, seemingly because the Dolphins lost in a way that the Cowboys often lose games…and did it with former Cowboys players and coaches. Then we have ‘evil’ Jason Garrett return to Arizona where we abandon the run, use shotgun way too often. Then we have the Giants game where our old enemy, Eli, kills us again in Dallas.

Unfortunately, it becomes overreaction time and I don’t enjoy the forum as much because I know what I’m going to read. “Jerry sucks”, “the players don’t fear anybody”, ‘we don’t have any talent”, etc. It will all come back to Jerry. Quite frankly, I’ve heard it so many times that I can practically tell who will say what. And I’m not Kreskin. It’s hardly enlightening or interesting anymore. But as I like to say, it’s much easier for people to spout off meaningless platitudes than it is to understand the true complexities of a situation.

First, I think the statements that ‘we don’t have any talent’ or anything like that, usually a big shot at Jerry, is very misguided. Do you think Ware is a talent? How about Spencer? Sean Lee? Gerald Sensabaugh? Mike Jenkins? Jay Ratliff? Witten? Romo? Miles? Dez? Laurent? Tyron? Murray? Felix?

Only a blind fool would think that these players are not talented. So, where is the problem? I think it has to do more with chemistry and more with the overall picture of the players we try to get than anything else.

The Cowboys tend to look more for physical talents that have had success in the past, be it in college or with another NFL team. Everything else comes second. The good news is that we generally avoid ‘workout warriors’ that don’t really understand football. The bad news is that we often pass up on smart players who are tough because when you don’t have quite the athletic skills, you have to make up for it with smarts and toughness.

But, it’s not only that. There are other issues as well. For instance, I can’t remember the last time we had a really good tackling cornerback. Put it this way, if we had the choice between taking Deion Sanders or Rod Woodson, we would ALWAYS take Deion Sanders. The problem is that it creates a hole in the defense when the corners can’t tackle that well. Particularly in today’s NFL which is becoming more and more ‘dial in a blitz and switch the zone coverage look 3 or 4 times.’ However, that presents the problem that we also have…outside of Jenkins, nobody else can play man-to-man well on a consistent basis.

Same with the ILB. I love Sean Lee and all, but he has to play deeper zone coverage because we can’t leave that responsibility with Bradie James (who I still like). The possibilities of what we could do if Bruce Carter is somewhat close to being as advertised, an athletic ILB who can cover the deep zone and play the run while Lee could play short and intermediate zone coverage is tantalizing. But until then, we have a talent in Sean Lee that can’t be used to its full potential because the chemistry isn’t there.

Unfortunately, fans think about chemistry in terms of players ‘getting along with each other.’ But, where chemistry is really important is how well a player’s strengths and weaknesses mesh with the rest of the team. If there’s something we need to get from Garrett, it needs to be getting Jerry and the scouting department to look beyond talent. Contrary to those popular platitudes, talent is not an issue.






YR

Of course we are talented, however I think a lot of fans are misguided into thinking that because they can see talent that means we have better talent than others and therefor have the talent to be a top team. The reality is we have elite talent only at TE and one OLB spot, and we have very good talent at QB, WR, NT and one ILB spot. The rest of the talent is good for the most part, and a little weak in a few places, but overall it is not so strong that it suggests any kind of dominance over other teams. Overall it adds up to a generally talented team, but again, not one that suggests superiority over others.

Obviously coaching does matter, however, and if the coaching can lead to better execution we have enough talent to win more games than we have. I just don't see that the talent level is so high that we can assume it doesn't share a fair amount of the blame as well.