YR's Pro Wrestling of the Day

[Yakuza Rich]

The persona that has lasted for a long time in pro wrestling is that of the heel that plays off like the star QB of the high school football team that comes from wealth and gets all of the girls. Buddy Rogers was likely the first to start that persona with Ric Flair later on perfecting it. And there have been others that have put their own twist on the persona like Shane Douglas. Another gimmick is more of a British persona of being a snobby elitist that doesn’t yell, but merely explains his point that..in the eyes of the heel..the fans are too stupid to understand.

Thus, we have a combination of the two in one of my all-time favorites in Nick Bockwinkel.



The comparisons to Flair will always be there for Bockwinkel. Both played college football with Flair playing at U. of Minnesota and Bockwinkel playing at Oklahoma. Both had similar types of personas and while Bockwinkel didn’t do the traveling that Flair did, he was a wrestler that went to different areas to wrestle while in the AWA as he would go to San Francisco, LA and Memphis to wrestle as a main eventer representing the AWA.

I would probably consider Flair to be better in the ring, although Bockwinkel was very good. I think Bockwinkel also had better finishes to his matches than Flair (Flair’s weakest part of his in-ring performance). But, Flair could really carry just about the biggest slugs on the planet from the Nikita Koloffs to the Stings to even the Vince Russo’s of the world. Also, wrestlers talked about Bockwinkel being very good in the ring, but also very stiff. Outside of Flair’s chops he touched extremely light in the ring.

However, I would submit that pro wrestlers following Flair and Bockwinkel would have been better off following Bockwinkel’s style of wrestling than Flair’s bump heavy style in the ring. Flair was an incredible bumper and seller, but the bumping has been way over-done the past 20 years which leads to more injuries and more ridiculous demands in the ring. And for the past 20 years wrestlers have substituted bumping for selling which isn’t the same.

As I always like to say…they call it ‘selling’ for a reason.

Bumping doesn’t sell tickets…or at least for that long. Selling sells ticket which is the end game in this business called pro wrestling.

I would also submit that Flair could have taken a page out of Bockwinkel’s notebook when it came to the interview style as well. As Paul Heyman pointed out, the problem with shouting in promos is that it’s difficult to understand the point the wrestler is trying to convey when they are shouting. The rub is that shouting is often needed to bring forth the intensity of a promo. Here’s Bockwinkel uncharacteristically raising his voice in a promo to intensify the promo, but still be clear to get his point across:



Bockwinkel understood the art of the long promo as it is akin to working a main event match…start off slowly, increase the tension and build to a furious finish.

While I loved Flair and love a lot of his promos, I found that I got more joy from him when he toned things down more in his promos. I also found that too many of his shouting promos went a little too long.

Also, Bockwinkel understood how to whine just enough to get over as a heel, but not too much where he couldn’t be taken seriously.



One can learn a lot from Bockwinkel. How mix-match old gimmicks to come up with a new, intriguing gimmick. How to preserve themselves in the ring and how to keep the crowd off balance with your promos and continue to generate heat.





YR

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Austin Idol was born Mike McCord and was raised in Tampa. Florida was one of the biggest wrestling territories of the 60’s and 70’s, led by legendary promoter Eddie Graham. Graham was known as arguably the greatest booker of all time as he was known as a ‘finish man’ as he created these elaborate finishes to matches that got over huge with the crowd. Graham also became Vince McMahon Sr.’s main confidant when it came to making difficult business decisions.

Graham treated pro wrestling like it was an actual professional sport. He financially supported a lot of high school amateur wrestling and you would often hear thru Championship Wrestling from Florida the discussion of a wrestler’s amateur career and how young kids should get into amateur wrestling so they can one day turn into a professional wrestler.

The end result was an incredibly successful territory that continually churned out great workers like Steve Keirn (aka Skinner), Barry Windham, Kevin Sullivan, Great Muta, Ron Bass and many others.

Idol was one of those wrestlers who got more involved thru bodybuilding than amateur wrestling. He was starting off his career as a progressing wrestler, but then was involved in a horrific airplane accident with Gary Hart, Buddy Colt and Bobby Shane (Shane was killed in the accident).

Idol was hurt so badly that he was out of action for years. Rumors had it that he shattered both ankles and completely skinned the bottom of his feet off. Eventually he returned to the ring and became one of the most over wrestlers in the world. Most notably in Memphis where he played a great foil to Jerry Lawler.

Idol was more of a ‘pure’ worker. What I mean by that is his wrestling in the ring was more about finding useful ways to fill time and to make very safe moves look very painful. This is something that was big in Memphis and Lawler’s greatest attribute as well. And with the injuries that Idol suffered in that plane crash, one can see why it was so important for him to learn how to work the fans in the ring.

But the greatest attribute of Idol was his mic work as he could work as a face:





And he was certainly great working the mic as a heel:





There’s a lot to learn from Austin Idol. In fact, The Rock stated that Idol was a big inspiration for the character he developed into.

Obviously, presentation was a big part of Idol’s success. I don’t think he was a poor worker by any means, but due to his injuries he had his physical limitations. But one way to overcome those limitations is to look like a wrestler.

Paul Heyman pointed out that Idol was very smart in being careful to enunciate his words when he started yelling because it’s difficult to hear what exactly a wrestler is saying when they are yelling. And that’s a big part of Idol’s success as a wrestler, he knew *how* and he knew *when* to cut a promo with intensity. Something that is severely lacking in today’s wrestling.



Instead of worrying about catchphrases and lines fed to you by a writer, it’s about how it’s being said. And how Idol said things made Idol a very wealthy man in short career despite having gone thru a horrific plane accident that should have prevented him from ever wrestling again.




YR

Got to see Idol in Buffalo, NY.

Great behind the mic. Great promos.

As a worker I thought he was OK. One of those guys who talked much better than he wrestled.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I’m a big fan of Arn Anderson. When I think of Arn, I think of this nothing match right here.





Magee was supposed to be the next big star in the WWF as he was a bodybuilder, martial arts expert and gymnast. However, he ended up being terrible in the ring. Arn was so good that he made Magee bearable to watch and an experience wrestling fan could just tell that while Magee had all of the physical ability in the world, it was Arn that was the real talent.


I also think he was one of the best on the mic, even better than Tully and I actually preferred Arn over Flair when it came to cutting promos:





However, where one could consider Arn to be the glue for the Horsemen, Tully was the glue for Crockett Promotions.


With Flair traveling so often to defend his World Heavyweight Title, Crockett Promotions needed that heel to help draw money. And while Arn was a great in-ring worker and great promo, he wasn’t the draw with Dusty or Magnum TA that Tully was. In fact, Arn’s brilliance and mastery in the ring and with the promos worked against him in that regard…he was so good that fans couldn’t help but respect Arn and in essence he started to gain fans in that regard. Arn was a case of being too respected to be hated, but he didn’t have that superstar looks to be mega-over and reach that Flair/Hogan/Dusty/Kerry Von Erich type status.


Tully was never respected. He just had that extremely hate-able face and while the fans came out to see Dusty, Magnum, etc…they also came out to specifically see them kick Tully’s arse.





YR

Terrific worker. Arn could work with any one. And boy could he sell!

And as you pointed out terrific mic skills.

The only thing that held him back in my book was his rather meh offensive arsenal as a singles wrestler.

Ole was the same way. Great worker. Great tag-team wrestler. But the lack of name offensive skills made him a mid-carder IMO.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The persona that has lasted for a long time in pro wrestling is that of the heel that plays off like the star QB of the high school football team that comes from wealth and gets all of the girls. Buddy Rogers was likely the first to start that persona with Ric Flair later on perfecting it. And there have been others that have put their own twist on the persona like Shane Douglas. Another gimmick is more of a British persona of being a snobby elitist that doesn’t yell, but merely explains his point that..in the eyes of the heel..the fans are too stupid to understand.

Thus, we have a combination of the two in one of my all-time favorites in Nick Bockwinkel.



The comparisons to Flair will always be there for Bockwinkel. Both played college football with Flair playing at U. of Minnesota and Bockwinkel playing at Oklahoma. Both had similar types of personas and while Bockwinkel didn’t do the traveling that Flair did, he was a wrestler that went to different areas to wrestle while in the AWA as he would go to San Francisco, LA and Memphis to wrestle as a main eventer representing the AWA.

I would probably consider Flair to be better in the ring, although Bockwinkel was very good. I think Bockwinkel also had better finishes to his matches than Flair (Flair’s weakest part of his in-ring performance). But, Flair could really carry just about the biggest slugs on the planet from the Nikita Koloffs to the Stings to even the Vince Russo’s of the world. Also, wrestlers talked about Bockwinkel being very good in the ring, but also very stiff. Outside of Flair’s chops he touched extremely light in the ring.

However, I would submit that pro wrestlers following Flair and Bockwinkel would have been better off following Bockwinkel’s style of wrestling than Flair’s bump heavy style in the ring. Flair was an incredible bumper and seller, but the bumping has been way over-done the past 20 years which leads to more injuries and more ridiculous demands in the ring. And for the past 20 years wrestlers have substituted bumping for selling which isn’t the same.

As I always like to say…they call it ‘selling’ for a reason.

Bumping doesn’t sell tickets…or at least for that long. Selling sells ticket which is the end game in this business called pro wrestling.

I would also submit that Flair could have taken a page out of Bockwinkel’s notebook when it came to the interview style as well. As Paul Heyman pointed out, the problem with shouting in promos is that it’s difficult to understand the point the wrestler is trying to convey when they are shouting. The rub is that shouting is often needed to bring forth the intensity of a promo. Here’s Bockwinkel uncharacteristically raising his voice in a promo to intensify the promo, but still be clear to get his point across:



Bockwinkel understood the art of the long promo as it is akin to working a main event match…start off slowly, increase the tension and build to a furious finish.

While I loved Flair and love a lot of his promos, I found that I got more joy from him when he toned things down more in his promos. I also found that too many of his shouting promos went a little too long.

Also, Bockwinkel understood how to whine just enough to get over as a heel, but not too much where he couldn’t be taken seriously.



One can learn a lot from Bockwinkel. How mix-match old gimmicks to come up with a new, intriguing gimmick. How to preserve themselves in the ring and how to keep the crowd off balance with your promos and continue to generate heat.





YR

Nick's one of my all-time favorites.

His mic skills were a 10.

And he could wrestle. No, not at a level of Flair or Harley Race, but he was more than adequate to be believable as the AWA Champion.

And he could sell like no tomorrow!

I agree with you on the "bumps" Rich. The work in the ring is at a very low level IMO because of the over-reliance on bumps.

Nick probably would have been in the mix for the NWA title if he had chosen to go that direction but the AWA suited him fine in that it had much less travel associated with it.

And I agree on Flair's finishes. Kind of a cluster. He was much better early in his career prior to being the NWA champ.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Terrific worker. Arn could work with any one. And boy could he sell!

And as you pointed out terrific mic skills.

The only thing that held him back in my book was his rather meh offensive arsenal as a singles wrestler.

Ole was the same way. Great worker. Great tag-team wrestler. But the lack of name offensive skills made him a mid-carder IMO.

Ole was a main eventer in the Carolinas and Georgia for over 10 years. And that was back when he was probably close to making a million per year (adjusted for inflation). In 1980, the state of Georgia had 60,000 different fans per month paying to watch live wrestling.

Ole was kinda like Jerry Lawler...people doubted if he could ever get over outside of his confined area...but given how over he was and how much money he was making there was little reason to wrestle elsewhere.

But, he was a miserable person to deal with in real life which is why he was a true heel.





YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Here’s the post where all of my ‘credibility’ as a pro wrestling gets shot down like an Undertaker chokeslam. But one of my favorite wrestling announcers was…


David Crockett.


David Crockett was the son of Jim Crockett, Sr. who first served as a concert promoter at the age of 19-years old and then later got into wrestling promoting at the age of 25-years old. Forget what Vince McMahon and his marketing team tells you...pro wrestling was extremely popular throughout the country for decades, well before Vince McMahon got involved with his father’s company. Despite making a nice career for himself as a concert promoter, Jim Crockett, Sr. decided to go full time into pro wrestling promoting because the money was far greater than it was for concert promoting. An example I like to use is that in 1980, the state of Georgia alone was averaging 60,000 different wrestling fans paying to see pro wrestling live each month. And back in 1980, the state’s population was only 5.5 million people (today it has about 10.6 million people).


You’re just not seeing that type of popularity in any state of the country these days. Not even close. And it was just as wildly popular in the Carolinas, Virginia and West Virginia. In fact, it was so popular that it wasn’t uncommon for Crockett to send out 3 ‘teams’ and have 3 different cards on the same day in the same location. According to Gary Hart in his book, pro wrestling was so popular for the Crocketts that it required 3 different bookers responsible for the territory. 1 for Virginia, another for North Carolina and another for South Carolina.


Crockett, Sr. passed away in 1973 and his sons Jim, Jr. and David took over. For the most part, Jr. and David did an excellent job of taking over the business up until they overextended themselves by purchasing 2 private jets that they couldn’t afford. They also didn’t see how they could have better spent that money to turn themselves into a national promotion which was inevitable with the oil crisis bankrupting Mid-South, Eddie Graham going bankrupt on a bad land deal, the tragic fiasco that was World Class in Texas, Sam Mushnick retiring in St. Louis, Roy Shire getting out of the business in San Francisco, Don Owen’s impending retirement in Oregon and Verne Gagne losing his land and therefore his collateral to fund his AWA in the Midwest.


Jim, Jr. was likely more of the business mind. David actually tried to become a wrestler himself. But, he decided it wasn’t for him and he became one of the announcers. And most fans hated David as an announcer. He was routinely voted as the worst announcer in wrestling in the Wrestling Observer. However, I always liked David as an announcer. The key wasn’t his actual announcing as much as it was his interaction with the wrestlers...particularly the heels.





Yes, David Crockett only plays a small role in the video above, but the abject horror in reaction to Cornette hitting Baby Doll in the stomach along with him being so disgusted that he yells at Cornette and storms off really helps make the angle. Without it, perhaps the concern for Baby Doll and the disgust of Cornette and the Midnight Express doesn’t quite resonate with the viewers.





The above video shows how well Crockett works with this angle. He’s willing to stick up for the babyface in front of the heel, without causing the heels to lose their heat by not making them look inferior. And even if you didn’t quite care for Crockett, you felt that Nikita brutally attacked the smaller Crockett and since Crockett was sticking up for Flair. Now you want to see Nikita get his comeuppance at the hands of Flair.


Crockett’s role on the mic didn’t take the skill and talent of a Gordon Solie (my favorite play-by-play), Jim Ross, Lance Russell or even a Jesse Ventura (my favorite color commentator). But it was effectiveness nonetheless.


However, a key element of Crockett’s role was that Dusty Rhodes was so great at booking, particularly booking babyfaces. Unlike the WWF/E which usually overexposed the star babyface and often made the babyfaces corny...Dusty was able to make his babyfaces look cool and be somebody that the fans would take a bullet for.


Dusty, in his prime, was the greatest booker I have ever seen. And he played a large role in NXT and building that ‘brand’ to what it is today (the modern day ECW). Dusty loved western movies and used the principles of westerns in his booking. Nobody thought Josie Wales or John Wayne were corny and Dusty being able to use those principles from westerns made for babyfaces like himself or Magnum TA or the Rock N Roll Express to not come off as corny.





If the faces were corny, like a John Cena or a Bob Backlund or a 1990’s Sting then Crockett’s announcing would have become overbearing itself. But because the faces weren’t corny, Crockett provided that voice for the fans and it further amplified the action. Just like with Ricky Morton who shocks everybody by not only taking it to Ric Flair, but clearly outclassing him. It was a Holy Crap moment and Crockett just further amplified the Holy Crap-ness of that moment.


But more importantly, it was something different. And different and unique usually means getting over. Again, it wasn’t the talent and skillfulness of a Gordon Solie or a Jesse Ventura. But it was different in that it was a commentator that was an out-and-out homer for the babyfaces instead of being an out-an-out homer for the heels or trying to be impartial, but generally siding with the faces. And it led to many of my favorite moments as a pro wrestling fan.






YR

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Here’s the post where all of my ‘credibility’ as a pro wrestling gets shot down like an Undertaker chokeslam. But one of my favorite wrestling announcers was…


David Crockett.


David Crockett was the son of Jim Crockett, Sr. who first served as a concert promoter at the age of 19-years old and then later got into wrestling promoting at the age of 25-years old. Forget what Vince McMahon and his marketing team tells you...pro wrestling was extremely popular throughout the country for decades, well before Vince McMahon got involved with his father’s company. Despite making a nice career for himself as a concert promoter, Jim Crockett, Sr. decided to go full time into pro wrestling promoting because the money was far greater than it was for concert promoting. An example I like to use is that in 1980, the state of Georgia alone was averaging 60,000 different wrestling fans paying to see pro wrestling live each month. And back in 1980, the state’s population was only 5.5 million people (today it has about 10.6 million people).


You’re just not seeing that type of popularity in any state of the country these days. Not even close. And it was just as wildly popular in the Carolinas, Virginia and West Virginia. In fact, it was so popular that it wasn’t uncommon for Crockett to send out 3 ‘teams’ and have 3 different cards on the same day in the same location. According to Gary Hart in his book, pro wrestling was so popular for the Crocketts that it required 3 different bookers responsible for the territory. 1 for Virginia, another for North Carolina and another for South Carolina.


Crockett, Sr. passed away in 1973 and his sons Jim, Jr. and David took over. For the most part, Jr. and David did an excellent job of taking over the business up until they overextended themselves by purchasing 2 private jets that they couldn’t afford. They also didn’t see how they could have better spent that money to turn themselves into a national promotion which was inevitable with the oil crisis bankrupting Mid-South, Eddie Graham going bankrupt on a bad land deal, the tragic fiasco that was World Class in Texas, Sam Mushnick retiring in St. Louis, Roy Shire getting out of the business in San Francisco, Don Owen’s impending retirement in Oregon and Verne Gagne losing his land and therefore his collateral to fund his AWA in the Midwest.


Jim, Jr. was likely more of the business mind. David actually tried to become a wrestler himself. But, he decided it wasn’t for him and he became one of the announcers. And most fans hated David as an announcer. He was routinely voted as the worst announcer in wrestling in the Wrestling Observer. However, I always liked David as an announcer. The key wasn’t his actual announcing as much as it was his interaction with the wrestlers...particularly the heels.





Yes, David Crockett only plays a small role in the video above, but the abject horror in reaction to Cornette hitting Baby Doll in the stomach along with him being so disgusted that he yells at Cornette and storms off really helps make the angle. Without it, perhaps the concern for Baby Doll and the disgust of Cornette and the Midnight Express doesn’t quite resonate with the viewers.





The above video shows how well Crockett works with this angle. He’s willing to stick up for the babyface in front of the heel, without causing the heels to lose their heat by not making them look inferior. And even if you didn’t quite care for Crockett, you felt that Nikita brutally attacked the smaller Crockett and since Crockett was sticking up for Flair. Now you want to see Nikita get his comeuppance at the hands of Flair.


Crockett’s role on the mic didn’t take the skill and talent of a Gordon Solie (my favorite play-by-play), Jim Ross, Lance Russell or even a Jesse Ventura (my favorite color commentator). But it was effectiveness nonetheless.


However, a key element of Crockett’s role was that Dusty Rhodes was so great at booking, particularly booking babyfaces. Unlike the WWF/E which usually overexposed the star babyface and often made the babyfaces corny...Dusty was able to make his babyfaces look cool and be somebody that the fans would take a bullet for.


Dusty, in his prime, was the greatest booker I have ever seen. And he played a large role in NXT and building that ‘brand’ to what it is today (the modern day ECW). Dusty loved western movies and used the principles of westerns in his booking. Nobody thought Josie Wales or John Wayne were corny and Dusty being able to use those principles from westerns made for babyfaces like himself or Magnum TA or the Rock N Roll Express to not come off as corny.





If the faces were corny, like a John Cena or a Bob Backlund or a 1990’s Sting then Crockett’s announcing would have become overbearing itself. But because the faces weren’t corny, Crockett provided that voice for the fans and it further amplified the action. Just like with Ricky Morton who shocks everybody by not only taking it to Ric Flair, but clearly outclassing him. It was a Holy Crap moment and Crockett just further amplified the Holy Crap-ness of that moment.


But more importantly, it was something different. And different and unique usually means getting over. Again, it wasn’t the talent and skillfulness of a Gordon Solie or a Jesse Ventura. But it was different in that it was a commentator that was an out-and-out homer for the babyfaces instead of being an out-an-out homer for the heels or trying to be impartial, but generally siding with the faces. And it led to many of my favorite moments as a pro wrestling fan.






YR

I thought David Crockett and Bob Caudle were a terrific announcing team.

And I think an argument could be made that the Mid-Atlantic territory was the best in wrestling for a good decade starting in the early 70's. Just an amazing hot-bed of wrestling for such a relatively low population area. And as you pointed out they drew crowds like crazy. Greensboro, NC would out-pull venues in cities several times larger.

A lot of credit needs to go to George Scott who booked (and orchestrated) several of the now legendary angles from that era like Greg Valentine "breaking" Wahoo McDaniels leg and the epic Blackjack Mulligan/Ric Flair split where Flair ripped up Mulligan's cowboy hat and Mulligan in turn tore up one of Flair's wrestling robes.

Can't say enough good things about the Mid-Atlantic wrestling.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I thought David Crockett and Bob Caudle were a terrific announcing team.

And I think an argument could be made that the Mid-Atlantic territory was the best in wrestling for a good decade starting in the early 70's. Just an amazing hot-bed of wrestling for such a relatively low population area. And as you pointed out they drew crowds like crazy. Greensboro, NC would out-pull venues in cities several times larger.

A lot of credit needs to go to George Scott who booked (and orchestrated) several of the now legendary angles from that era like Greg Valentine "breaking" Wahoo McDaniels leg and the epic Blackjack Mulligan/Ric Flair split where Flair ripped up Mulligan's cowboy hat and Mulligan in turn tore up one of Flair's wrestling robes.

Can't say enough good things about the Mid-Atlantic wrestling.

Mid Atlantic was very realistic and sought to brought forth realism in the product.

I always dug this match between Sgt. Slaughter and Jake Roberts.



The story was that Slaughter had a little more experience than Roberts (he is 7 years older than Jake) and that Jake lacked a quality finishing move as he had yet to develop the DDT and relied on the running knee lift.

I like it when wrestlers tell a story in the ring, the problem is that there are far more stories to tell than working on a body part or emphasizing the wrestler's gimmick.




YR

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Posting recently about Nick Bockwinkel...

Otto Wanz, who's one of the more off the beaten path wrestlers to win a major title, won the AWA title from Nick in 1982.

Anyway Otto passed away recently.

 

[Stash]

Terrific worker. Arn could work with any one. And boy could he sell!

And as you pointed out terrific mic skills.

The only thing that held him back in my book was his rather meh offensive arsenal as a singles wrestler.

Ole was the same way. Great worker. Great tag-team wrestler. But the lack of name offensive skills made him a mid-carder IMO.

Loved Arn, absolutely hated Ole Anderson. And to be perfectly honest, I've never seen a single thing involving Ole that was worth anything. The Horsemen were better after him.

This is Ole Anderson's legacy:

 

[timb2]

Loved Arn, absolutely hated Ole Anderson. And to be perfectly honest, I've never seen a single thing involving Ole that was worth anything. The Horsemen were better after him.

This is Ole Anderson's legacy:

Ole was a great heel. I remember in 1980 USA won the Gold medal in Hockey in the Olympics and every American was on Cloud 9 and Ole with Lars Anderson were up for the tag team title vs Ivan Koloff and Alexis Smirnoff... The Andersons had the title and Ole suffered an arm injury during the match and they lost the tag team title when Lars threw in the towel over Ole's injury everyone was disappointed but understood an injury. Next week Ole turned on Lars and he had faked the injury to give the belts to the Russians and joined them as their partner. Everyone wanted to kill Ole!!

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Ole wasn't flashy, but he was effective. He was very good in the ring and a rock solid promo. He wasn't this over the top characater, but that helped him sustain his heel heat because if you're an over-the-top character...generally people will start to take a liking to you. He was extremely over as a heel in the 70's and made great money in the Carolinas.

I also generally liked him as a booker. Everybody laughs at the Shockmaster which was horrible. But, I've seen Vince do far more Shockmaster type of things. You just can't beat Vince at his own game. That's what Crockett and company (later Jim Herd) missed...if they would have continued the type of product they had and spent that money on promotion, marketing and further investing in the company rather than private jets, and cartoonish wrestling...they could have easily overtaken Vince.




YR

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

Loved Arn, absolutely hated Ole Anderson. And to be perfectly honest, I've never seen a single thing involving Ole that was worth anything. The Horsemen were better after him.

This is Ole Anderson's legacy:

Looks like they put some blue glitter on a Stormtrooper helmet.

 

[Stash]

Looks like they put some blue glitter on a Stormtrooper helmet.

That's exactly what they did! Hillbillies!

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Ole wasn't flashy, but he was effective. He was very good in the ring and a rock solid promo. He wasn't this over the top characater, but that helped him sustain his heel heat because if you're an over-the-top character...generally people will start to take a liking to you. He was extremely over as a heel in the 70's and made great money in the Carolinas.

I also generally liked him as a booker. Everybody laughs at the Shockmaster which was horrible. But, I've seen Vince do far more Shockmaster type of things. You just can't beat Vince at his own game. That's what Crockett and company (later Jim Herd) missed...if they would have continued the type of product they had and spent that money on promotion, marketing and further investing in the company rather than private jets, and cartoonish wrestling...they could have easily overtaken Vince.




YR

Agreed that Vince was this close [ ] to losing the wrestling wars.

 

[Stash]

Agreed that Vince was this close [ ] to losing the wrestling wars.

Not to the Crocketts he wasn't!

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Not to the Crocketts he wasn't!

Yeah stash I think he could have.

Vince was hemorrhaging money during that time period.

The Crocketts knew how to run a wrestling promotion. What they did not know is how to run a company. Vince was the opposite. His dad was the guy that knew how to run a wrestling promotion.

While Rich disagrees, I think the Crocketts self destructed by going nationwide too soon.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Not to the Crocketts he wasn't!

I disagree.

Growing up in New York we had access to a lot of wrestling on TV, but when it came down to the WWF and NWA most of the kids that liked wrestling liked the WWF, but felt it was one dimensional and a little over the top. The NWA on the other hand my friends and I would say 'it's real!'

Part of the issue was that Vince's type of wrestling, particularly at that time, was to have a babyface champion and focus on that particular wrestler. The NWA had a wider scope with its talent and provided more episodic television.

In fact, in 1987 (IIRC), the NWA and the WWF ran shows in Philadelphia on the same night and the NWA at the Spectrum and the Civic Center and the NWA outdrew the WWF. The NWA made it to Chicago without a hitch as it was mega-over there. The only city that the NWA had an issue with drawing at would be a place like Boston where that was always a total WWF city.

And when Ted Turner took over the company, they had every reason to soundly crush Vince, particularly with the amount of money he was spending on the steroid trial. But they botched it completely with the purchase of the private jet which killed their liquidity, Dusty falling in love with the Dusty finish, the completely lack of quality promotion and getting into the apparel and toy market and then Jim Herd taking over the company and being an abject failure of every sort.






YR

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I disagree.

Growing up in New York we had access to a lot of wrestling on TV, but when it came down to the WWF and NWA most of the kids that liked wrestling liked the WWF, but felt it was one dimensional and a little over the top. The NWA on the other hand my friends and I would say 'it's real!'

Part of the issue was that Vince's type of wrestling, particularly at that time, was to have a babyface champion and focus on that particular wrestler. The NWA had a wider scope with its talent and provided more episodic television.

In fact, in 1987 (IIRC), the NWA and the WWF ran shows in Philadelphia on the same night and the NWA at the Spectrum and the Civic Center and the NWA outdrew the WWF. The NWA made it to Chicago without a hitch as it was mega-over there. The only city that the NWA had an issue with drawing at would be a place like Boston where that was always a total WWF city.

And when Ted Turner took over the company, they had every reason to soundly crush Vince, particularly with the amount of money he was spending on the steroid trial. But they botched it completely with the purchase of the private jet which killed their liquidity, Dusty falling in love with the Dusty finish, the completely lack of quality promotion and getting into the apparel and toy market and then Jim Herd taking over the company and being an abject failure of every sort.






YR

Yep.

For me WWWF/WWF wrestling is a 12 minute match that features more punching, kicking & eye gouges than wrestling.

The NWA represented "Broadways" (time limit draws) and featured wrestling.

The one thing that I never realized but heard/read from folks in the industry is that Jim Crockett Jr. was kind of a doofus. His brother David had a better mind for the business. But the REAL business person in the family was Jim Jr. & David's mother Elizabeth.

 

[Stash]

Yeah stash I think he could have.

Vince was hemorrhaging money during that time period.

The Crocketts knew how to run a wrestling promotion. What they did not know is how to run a company. Vince was the opposite. His dad was the guy that knew how to run a wrestling promotion.

While Rich disagrees, I think the Crocketts self destructed by going nationwide too soon.

I don't disagree with that, but Vince was never in danger of losing to the Crocketts. He stepped in and passed them by. He saw the future and others didn't. Now Turner had him on the ropes at one point, but the Crocketts didn't.