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Good story about Bob Orton Jr...
I'd love to have a HD full of matches from Japan from about '85 until '95.
YR's Pro Wrestling of the Day
- Thread starter Yakuza Rich
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Good story about Bob Orton Jr...
I'd love to have a HD full of matches from Japan from about '85 until '95.
Yakuza Rich
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The tough part about watching Japanese matches today is you had to kinda be there as a fan to fully appreciate and translate them.
From 85-95 All Japan had awesome tag matches as you had The Funks, Doc and Gordy, Hansen and Brody, Taue and Tsuruta, Taue and Kawada, Misawa and Kobashi, etc.
You had the Champion Carnival which was a round robin tournament that took place every Spring and lasted over several cards and they would keep the points of each participant over time leading the final match between the top 2 contestants. It added something to the promotion because it was another way to tell an angle besides relying on wrestlers chasing and defending the belts. It was booked kinda like the winner of the Royal Rumble, but it was far less predictable while still making sense. But that might get lost in translation watching it now since you may not quite grasp the importance of the match.
The same with many of the wrestlers. 6/8/90 Tsuruta vs. Misawa doesn't seem that incredible of a match, but it really was when you consider it was Misawa playing the role of the young lion trying to usurp Tsuruta out of his spot as the 'Ace' of the company. And it was built up so well that nobody really thought Misawa was going to win...but they thought he *could* win. And when he does and does it in such a shocking way it left me speechless. I just knew it was supposedly an incredible match and when I saw it on tape about 4 months after it happened...I realized it was. Dave Meltzer was actually at the match and people were crying because it symbolized the beginning of the end of Tsuruta as a top tier wrestler.
I always like New Japan. New Japan was a little more flashy and really liked to showcase the juniors. All Japan was all about big guys. Trying to make it look like a shoot. IIRC, in 1993 New Japan was technically the most profitable wrestling company in the world...even over the WWF. That's how big it was. The UWFi vs. New Japan feud was awesome. That is how you book an invasion feud. The problem I had with NJPW for the time was that their heavyweights simply weren't on the level of All Japan's. Mutoh was extremely talented, but you never knew which one was going to show up. The same with Shinya Hashimoto. Hase and Fujinami were probably the best performers on a consistent basis. Sasaki was okay and I never found much redeeming about Chono.
NJPW had a really good thing going in the early 90's with Vader and Bigelow, but they stopped using American talent and really got away from the Japanese vs. Gaijin. AJPW played to that a lot more with Dr. Death, Terry Gordy, Hansen, Gary Albright and even Johnny Ace (John Lauerinaitis...who was pretty decent in AJPW). But AJPW stopped playing to that Japan vs. Gaijin's after a while too and I think it hurt both companies.
But it will probably be difficult to translate things like Misawa...how he was the prodigy and made good on his hype and just had a knack for putting up incredible matches when the promotion needed them most. Funny thing is, out of the group he is by far the worst seller. But, if it was a big match that got a lot of hype, he could pull a 5 star match with just about anybody. Or things like Taue not living up to the hype of being the next Giant Baba or Kawada being the guy that wasn't beloved like Misawa or Kobashi.
If you can get over the language barrier and get into more old school psychology to building the match...you can really dig it.
Here's one of my favorites...Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa 6/3/94.
Kawada (in the black and yellow) is really known for his kicks and Misawa (in the green) is known for his forearm/elbow shots, particularly his rolling elbow.
YR
From 85-95 All Japan had awesome tag matches as you had The Funks, Doc and Gordy, Hansen and Brody, Taue and Tsuruta, Taue and Kawada, Misawa and Kobashi, etc.
You had the Champion Carnival which was a round robin tournament that took place every Spring and lasted over several cards and they would keep the points of each participant over time leading the final match between the top 2 contestants. It added something to the promotion because it was another way to tell an angle besides relying on wrestlers chasing and defending the belts. It was booked kinda like the winner of the Royal Rumble, but it was far less predictable while still making sense. But that might get lost in translation watching it now since you may not quite grasp the importance of the match.
The same with many of the wrestlers. 6/8/90 Tsuruta vs. Misawa doesn't seem that incredible of a match, but it really was when you consider it was Misawa playing the role of the young lion trying to usurp Tsuruta out of his spot as the 'Ace' of the company. And it was built up so well that nobody really thought Misawa was going to win...but they thought he *could* win. And when he does and does it in such a shocking way it left me speechless. I just knew it was supposedly an incredible match and when I saw it on tape about 4 months after it happened...I realized it was. Dave Meltzer was actually at the match and people were crying because it symbolized the beginning of the end of Tsuruta as a top tier wrestler.
I always like New Japan. New Japan was a little more flashy and really liked to showcase the juniors. All Japan was all about big guys. Trying to make it look like a shoot. IIRC, in 1993 New Japan was technically the most profitable wrestling company in the world...even over the WWF. That's how big it was. The UWFi vs. New Japan feud was awesome. That is how you book an invasion feud. The problem I had with NJPW for the time was that their heavyweights simply weren't on the level of All Japan's. Mutoh was extremely talented, but you never knew which one was going to show up. The same with Shinya Hashimoto. Hase and Fujinami were probably the best performers on a consistent basis. Sasaki was okay and I never found much redeeming about Chono.
NJPW had a really good thing going in the early 90's with Vader and Bigelow, but they stopped using American talent and really got away from the Japanese vs. Gaijin. AJPW played to that a lot more with Dr. Death, Terry Gordy, Hansen, Gary Albright and even Johnny Ace (John Lauerinaitis...who was pretty decent in AJPW). But AJPW stopped playing to that Japan vs. Gaijin's after a while too and I think it hurt both companies.
But it will probably be difficult to translate things like Misawa...how he was the prodigy and made good on his hype and just had a knack for putting up incredible matches when the promotion needed them most. Funny thing is, out of the group he is by far the worst seller. But, if it was a big match that got a lot of hype, he could pull a 5 star match with just about anybody. Or things like Taue not living up to the hype of being the next Giant Baba or Kawada being the guy that wasn't beloved like Misawa or Kobashi.
If you can get over the language barrier and get into more old school psychology to building the match...you can really dig it.
Here's one of my favorites...Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa 6/3/94.
Kawada (in the black and yellow) is really known for his kicks and Misawa (in the green) is known for his forearm/elbow shots, particularly his rolling elbow.
YR
Yakuza Rich
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Here's another great Japanese match. Stan Hansen and Terry Gordy vs. Genchiro Tenryu (older wrestler) and Kawada (younger wrestler in leopard tights).
Typical stuff from Hansen, brutally stiff and not pretty, but awesome nonetheless.And young Kawada showing great fire throughout:
YR
Typical stuff from Hansen, brutally stiff and not pretty, but awesome nonetheless.And young Kawada showing great fire throughout:
YR
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Gordy was good, but he wasn't Brody.
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cowboyec
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Stan the man and bam bam Gordy...now yer talkin'.
Gosh I miss those days.
Great characters....Great story telling.
Yakuza Rich
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Here's another great match from AJPW in 1995. Dr. Death Steve Williams and Johnny Ace (yes, John Laurinaitis vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (in the green) and Kenta Kobashi (in the orange)
Dr. Death had been talking trash in the Japanese media about Misawa (in the green) and Misawa rebutted. This angered Dr. Death and you can see as he has the intensity of 10 men in this match.
Dr. Death's finishers is the Backdrop Driver...a back suplex where he drops the opponent right on their head as well as the Doctor Bomb...a gutwrench powerbomb.
Ace is better than most people give credit for, but he's still a little off. His finisher was the Ace Crusher...a Diamond cutter that he invented and he had innovated a lot of great ways to use it.
Misawa is known for his forearms (they call them 'elbows') particularly the rolling elbow (spinning forearm). HIs finisher is the Tiger Bomb (double arm powerbomb). Kobashi is known for vicious chops and lariats and being the big guy that can do it all. He had numerous finishers, but he was mainly using the moonsault at this time.
The Japanese crowd is behind Misawa and Kobashi big-time here.
YR
Dr. Death had been talking trash in the Japanese media about Misawa (in the green) and Misawa rebutted. This angered Dr. Death and you can see as he has the intensity of 10 men in this match.
Dr. Death's finishers is the Backdrop Driver...a back suplex where he drops the opponent right on their head as well as the Doctor Bomb...a gutwrench powerbomb.
Ace is better than most people give credit for, but he's still a little off. His finisher was the Ace Crusher...a Diamond cutter that he invented and he had innovated a lot of great ways to use it.
Misawa is known for his forearms (they call them 'elbows') particularly the rolling elbow (spinning forearm). HIs finisher is the Tiger Bomb (double arm powerbomb). Kobashi is known for vicious chops and lariats and being the big guy that can do it all. He had numerous finishers, but he was mainly using the moonsault at this time.
The Japanese crowd is behind Misawa and Kobashi big-time here.
YR
Yakuza Rich
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Kobashi (26 years old at the time) vs. Stan Hansen (44 years old at the time)
Crowd is super into it because Hansen is so popular and Kobashi is having a meteoric rise to stardom.
YR
Crowd is super into it because Hansen is so popular and Kobashi is having a meteoric rise to stardom.
YR
Yakuza Rich
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Two more awesome All Japan matches both Kawada vs. Misawa.
Years later I have seen the influence that these two have had on wrestling, particularly with indie wrestlers aspiring to make it to the big time. The problem with these wrestlers that are inspired by Kawada and Misawa is that they are mostly just looking at the moves they used and the stiffness to their matches along with the crazy bumps. But they fail to look at the selling, the pacing of the match, their ability to work 'Main Event Style' and a lot of the defensive tactics they used to defend each other's moves.
It's kinda like watching Rocky I with Kawada vs. Misawa...and then the indie guys are Rocky II thru IV.
YR
Years later I have seen the influence that these two have had on wrestling, particularly with indie wrestlers aspiring to make it to the big time. The problem with these wrestlers that are inspired by Kawada and Misawa is that they are mostly just looking at the moves they used and the stiffness to their matches along with the crazy bumps. But they fail to look at the selling, the pacing of the match, their ability to work 'Main Event Style' and a lot of the defensive tactics they used to defend each other's moves.
It's kinda like watching Rocky I with Kawada vs. Misawa...and then the indie guys are Rocky II thru IV.
YR
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Great match!
Everything that we don't have in the WWE today.
First off the match went over 20 minutes.
-Lots of mat wrestling
-It looked brutal as a result of the "stiff" style
-They told a story
-The guys didn't look like they were cooperating to pull off ridiculous high spots
-We had a clean finish with no referee bump, no run ins, no foreign object
It look real.
Yakuza Rich
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I think an issue the wrestlers of today have is that they don't understand the concept of telling a story. They think it's reserved for 'working on the leg' or 'working on the arm.' The story in the Hansen vs. Kobashi match was the surprise that the younger Kobashi controlled the match early on and really got in a lot of big moves and strikes against Hansen early. Then Hansen hit a big powerbomb on the floor to get himself back into it. But Hansen, usually the bully in matches is now being bullied himself by Kobashi. But Hansen is such a big, tough dude that Kobashi can't put him away and when Kobashi tries to hit the moonsault to put him away...Hansen unexpectedly hits him with the lariat and wins the match.
There are so many stories that can be told in a wrestling match and All Japan was great at telling numerous stories. Of course it helps that they have the length to do it and the crowd has the patience to deal with it.
The Dr. Death/Ace vs. Misawa/Kobashi had numerous stories it told as well. With Dr. Death having the intensity of 10 men and was really gunning for Misawa. But Misawa and Kobashi hurt Dr. Death's left knee and continue to attack it. And Johnny Ace, considered a young mid card type shows that he can hang with Kobashi and Misawa. But, he's still outclassed by Kobashi and Misawa. Dr. Death fights hard and pulls off some great moves in a 'refuse to lose' type of atttitude, but the knee just won't hold and Ace simply can't hold off Misawa and Kobashi any longer.
YR
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Someone posted the card from Ric Flair's first appearance at Madison Square Garden in 1976:
-Louie Cyr vs. Irish Pat Barrett
-Superstar Billy Graham & Ivan Koloff vs. Tony Parisi & Louis Cerdan
-Bruno Sammartino vs. Ernie Ladd
-Kitty Adams vs. Susan Green
-US champ Bobo Brazil vs. Crusher Blackwell
-Ric Flair vs. Pete Sanchez
Keep in mind Flair broke his back during an airplane crash in 1975.
Overall it was a good card. You had what would ultimately be 4 WWWF/WWF Champions appearing.
On top of those 4 you had wrestling greats Ernie Ladd, Bobo Brazil and Crusher Blackwell.
-Louie Cyr vs. Irish Pat Barrett
-Superstar Billy Graham & Ivan Koloff vs. Tony Parisi & Louis Cerdan
-Bruno Sammartino vs. Ernie Ladd
-Kitty Adams vs. Susan Green
-US champ Bobo Brazil vs. Crusher Blackwell
-Ric Flair vs. Pete Sanchez
Keep in mind Flair broke his back during an airplane crash in 1975.
Overall it was a good card. You had what would ultimately be 4 WWWF/WWF Champions appearing.
On top of those 4 you had wrestling greats Ernie Ladd, Bobo Brazil and Crusher Blackwell.