Zack Martin and opportunity cost

CouchCoach

Staff member
Messages
41,122
Reaction score
74,904
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
You would not have gotten a first round pick and more for an OG slated to make over $13MM a year.

I mean your premise is that it might not be wise to pay an OG all that money but then turn around and claim some team will not only pay him that much money BUT ALSO give up prime picks for him?
Disagree, teams have different cap cushions and needs. We won't know because even if they did float trade ideas out there, we will never know now. One thing we know, there's always some team willing to pay for certain players. Like KC and Hitchens, they really wanted this player. And this draft and FA wasn't flush with All Pro guards.

Some of these teams have cap to burn to comply with the CBA which is why we see so many ridiculous salaries for players.
 

Jipper

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,072
Reaction score
21,671
Some crappy team would have to offer 2 1st round picks for me to even think about trading him....evem then I would likely decline..

Anyone is tradeable for the right price but the fact is that Martin is the core of our line and makes everyone around him that much better....
 

Doomsday101

Well-Known Member
Messages
107,762
Reaction score
39,034
I like martin but it is and was for us, very apperent ,LT TS is the position that on most teams THE coveted linemen.. of course we should sign him and he most likely worth it but from my perspective you can hide Gs between better players see Cooper etc But LT and even RT can be left alone on an island with no help..

and Dallas brought in Fleming on a cheap deal, the guy looked very good in NE in his pass protection.
 

CouchCoach

Staff member
Messages
41,122
Reaction score
74,904
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Martin is our most important OL IMO. Our running game didn’t become dominating until he arrived.
Haven't seen the OL without Martin but we have without Big Smitty and that was really nasty. The OT positions, followed by C are more valuable to me, especially on a team where the C makes the line calls.
 

CouchCoach

Staff member
Messages
41,122
Reaction score
74,904
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Some crappy team would have to offer 2 1st round picks for me to even think about trading him....evem then I would likely decline..

Anyone is tradeable for the right price but the fact is that Martin is the core of our line and makes everyone around him that much better....
2 1sts for a G is stretching it but I would take that all day, every day and use one of those 1sts on a G.
 

BrAinPaiNt

Mike Smith aka Backwoods Sexy
Staff member
Messages
77,919
Reaction score
40,986
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Meh...different player, different day, same argument.

Get rid of out good guys in order to take a chance on bringing in other good guys we hope will be good.

You don't let good players go and especially all pro level players with little to no history of injuries while still being in their prime.

You let those others go who have an injury history or are older.
 

Sydla

Well-Known Member
Messages
60,119
Reaction score
91,956
Disagree, teams have different cap cushions and needs. We won't know because even if they did float trade ideas out there, we will never know now. One thing we know, there's always some team willing to pay for certain players. Like KC and Hitchens, they really wanted this player. And this draft and FA wasn't flush with All Pro guards.

Some of these teams have cap to burn to comply with the CBA which is why we see so many ridiculous salaries for players.

KC just signed Hitchens. That's it.

The list of teams that would be willing to commit a large contract to an OG and then give up a first round pick and other picks/players for the chance to give that OG a massive contract is likely non-existent.

You might have been able to squeeze a 2nd rounder out of a team for that privilege.
 

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
55,405
Reaction score
36,572
Haven't seen the OL without Martin but we have without Big Smitty and that was really nasty. The OT positions, followed by C are more valuable to me, especially on a team where the C makes the line calls.
Good points. Guess it depends what our priorities are.

And we did see this OL without Martin( not since he joined us) and it didn’t produce the running game we have with him.
 

Doomsday101

Well-Known Member
Messages
107,762
Reaction score
39,034
KC just signed Hitchens. That's it.

The list of teams that would be willing to commit a large contract to an OG and then give up a first round pick and other picks/players for the chance to give that OG a massive contract is likely non-existent.

You might have been able to squeeze a 2nd rounder out of a team for that privilege.

Yeah KC signed Hitchens Anthony Hitchens, signed a 5 year, $45,000,000 contract with the Kansas City Chiefs, including a $14,000,000 signing bonus, $25,090,000 guaranteed. Glad Dallas did not try to match it
 

CPanther95

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,681
Reaction score
6,898
If they aren't going to sign him, they were idiots to spend a first round pick on a Guard. That would mean they spent a first round pick for a guy that would only have been a long term Cowboy if he was mediocre enough to be affordable.

.. And no , there's zero chance you'd get a first round pick for him.
 

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
55,405
Reaction score
36,572
Yeah KC signed Hitchens Anthony Hitchens, signed a 5 year, $45,000,000 contract with the Kansas City Chiefs, including a $14,000,000 signing bonus, $25,090,000 guaranteed. Glad Dallas did not try to match it
Certainly appears over paying for Hitchens.
 

Jipper

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,072
Reaction score
21,671
Meh...different player, different day, same argument.

Get rid of out good guys in order to take a chance on bringing in other good guys we hope will be good.


You don't let good players go and especially all pro level players with little to no history of injuries while still being in their prime.

You let those others go who have an injury history or are older.

I agree but you always have to listen incase a hershal walker type of deal comes along....again, anyone is tradeable for the right price....not advocating to trade him just saying if the price was right and was a transformative type of deal you take it and improve the sum of the parts
 

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
55,405
Reaction score
36,572
If they aren't going to sign him, they were idiots to spend a first round pick on a Guard. That would mean they spent a first round pick for a guy that would only have been a long term Cowboy if he was mediocre enough to be affordable.

.. And no , there's zero chance you'd get a first round pick for him.
Im not sure you get a 1st round or not? But he’d draw big money in FA.

Martin was All Pro his Rookie season. Freddy nor Tyron developed as quickly.

I’m not sure we have as dominating running game without Martin.
 

Jipper

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,072
Reaction score
21,671
If they aren't going to sign him, they were idiots to spend a first round pick on a Guard. That would mean they spent a first round pick for a guy that would only have been a long term Cowboy if he was mediocre enough to be affordable.

.. And no , there's zero chance you'd get a first round pick for him.

Zero chance they would get a first round pick for the best 27 yo guard in the NFL and one that is on pace for a hof career? I'll bet money there are tons of teams that would give a late 1st round pick in a heartbeat
 

Doomsday101

Well-Known Member
Messages
107,762
Reaction score
39,034
Certainly appears over paying for Hitchens.

That is what gets me, people get mad because Dallas does not jump into FA market and over paying, yet have a fit for signing our own pro bowl player like Martin who works great with the OL. There is no wasted time of getting acclimated with the other players along the OL or what is being asked of him. Dallas knows what they are getting in Martin. Seldom do you know what you will get in Outside FA
 

Rockport

AmberBeer
Messages
41,423
Reaction score
41,381
Zack Martin is pretty much universally accepted as one of, if not the top guards in the NFL. But for the sake of argument, we are going to assume that Zack's Martin is the best guard in the NFL and we are going to also assume that from a football playing perspective that everyone wants us to keep him, which is almost universally true.

On the other hand, we have this thing called the salary cap. It's a hard cap that only allows you to spend so many dollars. That means that for every dollar you spend on Zack Martin you CANNOT spend that same dollar on anyone else. So if you pay Martin the biggest bucks in the league as a guard, then someone at another position is going to get slighted on salary.

Guard is not normally a top tier salary position and it's not a position that is normally drafted high. Granted that does seem to be changing, as Nelson was in the top 5 or so picks of this draft. But it isn't a position that on average gets paid as well as many other positions.

If we resign Martin, we are "probably" getting a player who can play out his full contract at a high level. I say probably because if he gets injured and can't return to elite form, a contract like we are hearing about can set this team back significantly in the cap department.

Contracts like this also can cause depth problems. We are finally getting some decent depth and this contract doesn't help that at all.

We could have easily traded Martin for a 1st. In fact we could have probably traded Martin for a first and more. Maybe even as much as a third.

The difference in pay between a first round rookie draft pick and the contract Martin will probably sign will be around $10 million dollars per year difference (times the length of his contract). So a 6 year deal would be a $60 million dollar difference in the total cap hit.

A draft pick is not likely to play at the same level as Martin, as Martin is a perennial pro bowler, but if the draft pick replacement at guard is a first round pick he should theoretically be a top tier guard. (Top 5 to 10 or better).

When you sign a player like this to a mega deal, all of the risk shifts over to the team. When a team signs a guy like this to a mega deal the BEST case scenario is that the player continues to play at a high level, justifies his cap hit, and maybe if the salary cap continues to go up you end up with a slight bargain in the last year or two of his contract. So best case, you get what you expected to get. But the worst case is a train wreck cap hit for an injured player or he underperforma his contract for whatever reason.

Granted I think Martin is a solid person so you minimize the intangible portion of the train wreck, but the injury part can't be under appreciated.
Are you saying they shouldn't sign him? It's a yes or no question.
 

BrAinPaiNt

Mike Smith aka Backwoods Sexy
Staff member
Messages
77,919
Reaction score
40,986
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I agree but you always have to listen incase a hershal walker type of deal comes along....again, anyone is tradeable for the right price....not advocating to trade him just saying if the price was right and was a transformative type of deal you take it and improve the sum of the parts


The days of the Walker trade are long gone imo.
 

Diehardblues

Well-Known Member
Messages
55,405
Reaction score
36,572
That is what gets me, people get mad because Dallas does not jump into FA market and over paying, yet have a fit for signing our own pro bowl player like Martin who works great with the OL. There is no wasted time of getting acclimated with the other players along the OL or what is being asked of him. Dallas knows what they are getting in Martin. Seldom do you know what you will get in Outside FA
Yep ..it’s one thing overpaying on a Hitchens but Martin is close to a generational talent at guard IMO. And no injury history.
 
Top