Zimmer is not the culprit

[BrAinPaiNt]

I may be in the minority here, but I think all those who want to put the woes of the defense on Mike Zimmer aren't paying close enough attention.

Wasn't the defense pretty good under Zimmer at one point in his career? Do you really think that any aspect of this team doesn't reflect Parcells and his philosophy and approach?

I think the entire team is a reflection of Parcells and I think that Zimmer pretty much does what Parcells wants.

To be fair there were times the defense was good under zimmer, before parcells, and there have been times when it was good under zimmer with parcells.

The problem is, IMO, it has never been GREAT under either circumstances with zimmer.

Creating pressure with Zimmer as DC has always been a problem. I said Pressure, not always sacks...if pressure is good enough to cause many INTs than that is just as good as sacks IMO.

But that is one area we have had trouble with as a whole with Zimmer in charge, whether that was before parcells or since parcells has been here.

I remember the time the cowboys and zimmer (under campo) were bound and determined to create pressure so they started blitzing like crazy.

When that happened they were getting GASHED by the run. I think we had multiple games in a row with opposing running backs getting around 200 yards per game against the defense.

They decided they could not keep that up so they went back to the conservative bend don't break approach.

So with Zimmer, either before or after parcells arrival...has never really put a GREAT defense on the field for the majority of a season. Now he has put on some good ones...but never IMO great.

Even when we were ranked #1 defense that one year, it was never considered to be on par with the great Defenses of Tampa (when dungy was there), the Ravens (when lewis was there) or the bears currently.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

So let me see, many don't want Parcells to be an overcontrolling pain who tells his DC's what to do, but when they fail it's his fault?

That about sums it up.

 

[Rocky]

I don't know if it's been covered here today, but Norm on the Ticket said today that he'd spoken over the wkend with a former head coach in the NFL (i'm guessing Campo, could be Jimmy, though) and he asked Norm who was calling the defensive signals. Norm replied, "Zimmer". Unknown former coach, "are you sure"?

I suppose the implication was that Purcells was really calling the shots, and maybe he shoulders the blame. FWIW.

 

[silver]

we miss greg ellis big time. he's this year's darren woodson. no lynn scotts in the world will ever replace woody

 

[Jarv]

I don't know if it's been covered here today, but Norm on the Ticket said today that he'd spoken over the wkend with a former head coach in the NFL (i'm guessing Campo, could be Jimmy, though) and he asked Norm who was calling the defensive signals. Norm replied, "Zimmer". Unknown former coach, "are you sure"?

I suppose the implication was that Purcells was really calling the shots, and maybe he shoulders the blame. FWIW.

Somehow this does not surprise anyone at all, BP not Zimmer controls this defense. Its been told 100 times Zim wants to be more agressive and BP holds him back.

So Zimmer is standing there with a knife in his hand and the victim's blood all over his shirt, yet he's not the "culprit." He's certainly a suspect.

BP is like the mob boss and Zim is the hit man. The hit man doesn't decide who to kill, he gets his orders from the boss.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not proclaiming Zim as a Greg Wilaims or Jim Johnson and I don't really want him back at all, but I have a problem with the guy getting slammed when he is doing his boss's bidding. BP is the real culprit and started this whole 3-4 thing...Which puts Ware/other OLB on the slot reciever...sheesh.

 

[Deputy493]

I may be in the minority here, but I think all those who want to put the woes of the defense on Mike Zimmer aren't paying close enough attention.

Wasn't the defense pretty good under Zimmer at one point in his career? .

Yeah, he was great that year when Campo was head coach and we broke the NFL record for 200 yard rushers allowed in a season.....yeah, he used to be great

and yes, you are in the minority, Zimmer is an idiot and should've been gone years ago.

 

[Yeagermeister]

Someone call Gil Grissom

 

[wileedog]

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not proclaiming Zim as a Greg Wilaims or Jim Johnson and I don't really want him back at all, but I have a problem with the guy getting slammed when he is doing his boss's bidding. BP is the real culprit and started this whole 3-4 thing...Which puts Ware/other OLB on the slot reciever...sheesh.

Why do we even have a DC then?

More importantly, why did Jerry give Zimm a big raise to not go to Nebraska (which is a whopper of a question on a whole lotta levels)? Any idiot can come in and just take orders from Parcells, why would they pony up to keep him if all he does is implement Parcells' game plan?

 

[Yeagermeister]

Why do we even have a DC then?

More importantly, why did Jerry give Zimm a big raise to not go to Nebraska (which is a whopper of a question on a whole lotta levels)? Any idiot can come in and just take orders from Parcells, why would they pony up to keep him if all he does is implement Parcells' game plan?

I wish we had let him go back then

 

[texastwister]

To be fair there were times the defense was good under zimmer, before parcells, and there have been times when it was good under zimmer with parcells.

The problem is, IMO, it has never been GREAT under either circumstances with zimmer.

Creating pressure with Zimmer as DC has always been a problem. I said Pressure, not always sacks...if pressure is good enough to cause many INTs than that is just as good as sacks IMO.

But that is one area we have had trouble with as a whole with Zimmer in charge, whether that was before parcells or since parcells has been here.

I remember the time the cowboys and zimmer (under campo) were bound and determined to create pressure so they started blitzing like crazy.

When that happened they were getting GASHED by the run. I think we had multiple games in a row with opposing running backs getting around 200 yards per game against the defense.

They decided they could not keep that up so they went back to the conservative bend don't break approach.

So with Zimmer, either before or after parcells arrival...has never really put a GREAT defense on the field for the majority of a season. Now he has put on some good ones...but never IMO great.

Even when we were ranked #1 defense that one year, it was never considered to be on par with the great Defenses of Tampa (when dungy was there), the Ravens (when lewis was there) or the bears currently.

Brain you have stated what alot of blind people dont see with Zimmer.
I use to be a beleiver in Zimmer but reading this forum about 4 years ago opened my eyes.

Yes we have been in the top 10 in defense (dont know the numbers) for the last 10 years quite often. That is based on yards. I want the numbers by pts /game ,sacks/game and turnovers.
You are right when you say we dont need sacks but we need pressure. This has been a problem through the M Meyers, S Carvers and the rest of the wasted picks we have had. Its not the 3-4 or the 4-3 or the secondary it is the front 7. We blitz but get no pressure we dont blitz and get no pressure. Heck when is the last time you saw a run blitz to cause pressure. I did see in the Detroit game at least we ran some stunts out of the 4-3 to change up the defense but it took 16 weeks.
The same excuses have been made for Zimmer for the last 6 years. Its the players , its the coaches or its injuries. Yet we are still the same we were 10 years ago.
I say and see its Zimmers scheme. Yet the shocker is BP thought Zimmer was smart enough to keep to run the 3-4. Here is the answer for that. The game has passed BP by. He plays to conservative on both sides of the ball. He is running the 80s version of the 3-4 not the current version. Look at San Diego. No not Merriman but the team as a whole. They put pressure on the QB. Merriman comes from the edges the corners and even on delays. Ware lines up and rushes. Is Merriman a better player or is he being used better.

The problem that the Zimmer lovers dont see is our D doesnt cause any turnovers. We dont have enough. Never have. This year is better but still dont cause enough ints and fumbles over the last 10 years.
San Diego has 61 sacks and we have our famous 34 usally between 30-40 sacks a year. Give up 21.6 pts per game which is normal.

Yet its Parcells holing Zimmer back isnt that the excuse that has the most votes this year.
Believe what you want but it is time to part ways with Zimmer and BP can lead him to the taxi and sit next to him and not return.

 

[rcaldw]

Brain you have stated what alot of blind people dont see with Zimmer.
I use to be a beleiver in Zimmer but reading this forum about 4 years ago opened my eyes.

Yes we have been in the top 10 in defense (dont know the numbers) for the last 10 years quite often. That is based on yards. I want the numbers by pts /game ,sacks/game and turnovers.
You are right when you say we dont need sacks but we need pressure. This has been a problem through the M Meyers, S Carvers and the rest of the wasted picks we have had. Its not the 3-4 or the 4-3 or the secondary it is the front 7. We blitz but get no pressure we dont blitz and get no pressure. Heck when is the last time you saw a run blitz to cause pressure. I did see in the Detroit game at least we ran some stunts out of the 4-3 to change up the defense but it took 16 weeks.
The same excuses have been made for Zimmer for the last 6 years. Its the players , its the coaches or its injuries. Yet we are still the same we were 10 years ago.
I say and see its Zimmers scheme. Yet the shocker is BP thought Zimmer was smart enough to keep to run the 3-4. Here is the answer for that. The game has passed BP by. He plays to conservative on both sides of the ball. He is running the 80s version of the 3-4 not the current version. Look at San Diego. No not Merriman but the team as a whole. They put pressure on the QB. Merriman comes from the edges the corners and even on delays. Ware lines up and rushes. Is Merriman a better player or is he being used better.

The problem that the Zimmer lovers dont see is our D doesnt cause any turnovers. We dont have enough. Never have. This year is better but still dont cause enough ints and fumbles over the last 10 years.
San Diego has 61 sacks and we have our famous 34 usally between 30-40 sacks a year. Give up 21.6 pts per game which is normal.

Yet its Parcells holing Zimmer back isnt that the excuse that has the most votes this year.
Believe what you want but it is time to part ways with Zimmer and BP can lead him to the taxi and sit next to him and not return.

Two comments:

1. I'm not Zimmer lover. My argument here is NOT that Zimmer should stay.

2. My argument is that when Parcells leads him to the Taxi, he needs to climb in right behind him, because Parcells is as responsible for this defense OR MORE than Zimmer is.

That was my point.

 

[texastwister]

Sorry wasnt calling you a Zimmer lover was just jumping the gun for the lovers that were going to defend Zimmer. ( I also was one of them 5 years ago)

 

[rcaldw]

Sorry wasnt calling you a Zimmer lover was just jumping the gun for the lovers that were going to defend Zimmer. ( I also was one of them 5 years ago)

No problem at all. I wasn't offended, I was just simply clarifying my position in the post. It wasn't to argue for the retention of Zimmer, it was to say, I completely disagree with all those who want to pin the whole thing on Zimmer. I just don't buy that.

 

[Jarv]

Why do we even have a DC then?

More importantly, why did Jerry give Zimm a big raise to not go to Nebraska (which is a whopper of a question on a whole lotta levels)? Any idiot can come in and just take orders from Parcells, why would they pony up to keep him if all he does is implement Parcells' game plan?

Lol...I think he's the DC in name only, heck look BP doesn't even have a OC. The guy is a control freak micro manager, its very well known.

Why do you think Peyton piled on with the onside kick ? Showing BP what he is capable of doing.

I'm making no excuses for Zimmer here, he sucks. If he had the brass ones and belived in himself he would have left when we changed to the 3-4.

No I, on the other hand, would have stayed to coach the 3-4 because I have absolutly no coaching experience, but I did play in the 3-4 in HS...lol.

 

[wileedog]

Lol...I think he's the DC in name only, heck look BP doesn't even have a OC. The guy is a control freak micro manager, its very well known.

Again, why give a $1M raise to a "DC in name only"? You can find any chump to just carry out Bill "micromanaging."

You are purely speculating, and the evidence doesn't jibe with it.

 

[Munchis]

I may be in the minority here, but I think all those who want to put the woes of the defense on Mike Zimmer aren't paying close enough attention.

Wasn't the defense pretty good under Zimmer at one point in his career? Do you really think that any aspect of this team doesn't reflect Parcells and his philosophy and approach?

I think the entire team is a reflection of Parcells and I think that Zimmer pretty much does what Parcells wants.

Zimmer is most certainly the culprit and somebody needs to run this *** monkey out of town before he destroys what little potential Demarcus Ware has.

He's not a 3-4 coordinator and he hides behind Parcells inept gameplanning to begin with....have some balls and take charge of your unit!

Munchis.....Out!!

 

[Jarv]

Again, why give a $1M raise to a "DC in name only"? You can find any chump to just carry out Bill "micromanaging."

You are purely speculating, and the evidence doesn't jibe with it.

Dog, your preaching to the choir, I agree that I want Zimmer gone, just saying that BP is a control freak, especially with a 2nd year DC (in the 3-4 that is).

You ask "why give a $1M raise to a "DC in name only"?"

I ask the same question ? If BP really wanted a kick but 3-4, then why didn't they get a 3-4 specialist at the time ???

Instead BP figured he could TEACH the freaking guy the system in 4 months in the off -season (Jan-April) to start in the Spring teaching the players a whole new system ? A guy with 4 months experience teaching our players with NO experience ?

So, do you think BP...A guy with over 20 years experience coaching teams in the 3-4 is NOT micromanaging a guy with 1 1/2 years in a system ?

I mean Zim is no BB, who BP could just let him do his thing, of course BP was mico-managing.

The whole problem was not getting the right guy when we decided to make switch in Jan 2005.

Do you think if we decided to run the WCO next year we would keep our current...Well I would say OC but we don't have one.

 

[Chuck 54]

IN the past, we were so bad that it made our defensive stats look better. You look like you are studs on offense when the other team has a lead and plays it safe...even when our defensive stats looked good in the 4-3 or 3-4 under Zimmer, other teams seemed capable of scoring at the end of the game when they needed it.

 

[wileedog]

Dog, your preaching to the choir, I agree that I want Zimmer gone, just saying that BP is a control freak, especially with a 2nd year DC (in the 3-4 that is).

You're missing my point Jarv.

If Zimmer is nothing but an order taker there is no reason to spend extra money to keep him here. Its obvious that he must play a much bigger role than you are assuming or why in the world would Jerry fork over that extra money?

I'm not commenting if he is good or bad, or worth that money - that answer is obvious. The point is even Jerry doesn't give up that kind of cash for a guy who just takes Bill's orders.

I'm not absolving Bill, obviously he sets the tone, and he bought the groceries. But you are way, way diminishing Zimms role in this.

Do you think if we decided to run the WCO next year we would keep our current...Well I would say OC but we don't have one.

Actually we technically have 3, and they seem to have been given a lot of leeway this year. I've seen more motion, spread sets, different looks and varied plays this year than the last 3 years combined.

Bill is clearly not 'micromanaging' them, but he is Zimmer, the guy they paid $1M to keep?