Fans for DL

Unless it's Vince Wilfork part deux. That guy was a game changer supreme, and a huge part of their super bowls.
Given the Cowboys draft history over the past 35 years including your boy Maryland, what gives you any indication that they would know whether or not it was a 'Vince Wilfork' that they were trading up for?

The best one they ever drafted, Ratliff, they waited until the 7th to draft.
 
Best 1, 2, 3 in Cowboys history:

1973 3rd round, Harvey Martin, DE
1974 1st pick, 1st round in draft, Ed Too Tall Jones "larger than life"
1975 1st round 2nd pick overall, Randy "the Manster" White, best DL in college football
 
I am talking about the move in and of itself. You at no point deny that the move was awful. You just want to talk around the issue.

Generally speaking making moves like that is awful. For example, we gave up much less for Claiborne and that was widely regarded as one of the worst transactions the team has made the past few decades.

In the context of today by no means whatsoever should the Cowboys trade up for a 1T.
is your goal a post mortem analysis of what happened? if that's the case, then fine. but I don't much care for that.

what should we do now? should we do trades and for whom? which player should we select and why? who do we sign in FA and why? how do they mesh in the over all plan? what is the over all plan? and how do new players fit into the plan and what's their purpose.

so you said don't draft a 1T...well, on the other hand we were 28th in run defense, giving up average of 4.8 YPC....sounds like we need somebody to stop the runs....but also how does he fit into the rest of the defensive game plan? now you look at good run defense teams and 11 of the top 12 teams were in the playoffs only one of the other 20 were in the playoffs....so a 1T as unsexy as it sounds, maybe what we need. just looking at increasing the odds for success. but it has to be as close to sure as possible understanding there is never 100%.....its about risks you take.... you can try and swing for the fences, yes you will hit a home run sometimes, but you will also strike out a lot.

so if you can answer above questions now, and then we come back and evaluate in 3 years, 5 years or 10 years.....that would be fantastic. would be a nice post mortem analysis.

and again, at the time, I am going to repeat this again, at the time with facts and knowledge known then...not 30 years later....there was a lot of risk with a lot of the players, there were lots of unknowns. so do you like to gamble? and why? what's your ultimate goal and why gamble?

he could have picked the other players, but some as we now know didn't work out, some did....at the time all you had was the scouting report.
Johnson felt the cowboys were close. he had a plan and he wanted a KNOWN quantity than a gamble. he didn't want a home run hitter. he wanted somebody that can get on base consistently because he had the rest of the team to get him home (sorry baseball analogy here, as a different way of looking at it). why? because he felt confident that in his plan, he could make it to the superbowl and be champions....so why gamble if your ultimate goal was superbowls and not HOF players on your team. because he could more easily manage that. why take unnecessary risks? when you have a sure thing that you know its going to work and you can use for specific purpose that fits your plan. I mentioned this in another comment, Johnson even spoke to those points on why he went for maryland....

subsequently, as you have done post mortem analysis, I will do the same, my post mortem analysis is that he was right. he didn't gamble. he may have paid a little extra to get the player he wanted, to fill a cog in his team and end results speaks volumes more than we should have taken X player instead because 30 years later I am doing analysis and we have 1000000 of facts to come to a certain conlcusion, none of which were available then.

great post mortem analysis. not sure how it fits in what we should do moving forward. and perhaps its good for a chapter, or article in NFL history books.
 
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Given the Cowboys draft history over the past 35 years including your boy Maryland, what gives you any indication that they would know whether or not it was a 'Vince Wilfork' that they were trading up for?

The best one they ever drafted, Ratliff, they waited until the 7th to draft.
Weak argument. DT is the most important position after QB to a super bowl path. You don't just give up because you failed here or there. If that's your argument, then you should give up and go away. Me? I still retain hope, even after all of the horrific decisions by this FO.

Maryland was not worth what we gave up to get him. Maryland was a very good solid player. You know, both can be true.
 
is your goal a post mortem analysis of what happened? if that's the case, then fine. but I don't much care for that.

what should we do now? should we do trades and for whom? which player should we select and why? who do we sign in FA and why? how do they mesh in the over all plan? what is the over all plan? and how do new players fit into the plan and what's their purpose.

so you said don't draft a 1T...well, on the other hand we were 28th in run defense, giving up average of 4.8 YPC....sounds like we need somebody to stop the runs....but also how does he fit into the rest of the defensive game plan? now you look at good run defense teams and 11 of the top 12 teams were in the playoffs only one of the other 20 were in the playoffs....so a 1T as unsexy as it sounds, maybe what we need. just looking at increasing the odds for success. but it has to be as close to sure as possible understanding there is never 100%.....its about risks you take.... you can try and swing for the fences, yes you will hit a home run sometimes, but you will also strike out a lot.

so if you can answer above questions now, and then we come back and evaluate in 3 years, 5 years or 10 years.....that would be fantastic. would be a nice post mortem analysis.

and again, at the time, I am going to repeat this again, at the time with facts and knowledge known then...not 30 years later....there was a lot of risk with a lot of the players, there were lots of unknowns. so do you like to gamble? and why? what's your ultimate goal and why gamble?

he could have picked the other players, but some as we now know didn't work out, some did....at the time all you had was the scouting report.
Johnson felt the cowboys were close. he had a plan and he wanted a KNOWN quantity than a gamble. he didn't want a home run hitter. he wanted somebody that can get on base consistently because he had the rest of the team to get him home (sorry baseball analogy here, as a different way of looking at it). why? because he felt confident that in his plan, he could make it to the superbowl and be champions....so why gamble if your ultimate goal was superbowls and not HOF players on your team. because he could more easily manage that. why take unnecessary risks? when you have a sure thing that you know its going to work and you can use for specific purpose that fits your plan. I mentioned this in another comment, Johnson even spoke to those points on why he went for maryland....

subsequently, as you have done post mortem analysis, I will do the same, my post mortem analysis is that he was right. he didn't gamble. he may have paid a little extra to get the player he wanted, to fill a cog in his team and end results speaks volumes more than we should have taken X player instead because 30 years later I am doing analysis and we have 1000000 of facts to come to a certain conlcusion, none of which were available then.

great post mortem analysis. not sure how it fits in what we should do moving forward. and perhaps its good for a chapter, or article in NFL history books.
Tavondre Sweat from the last draft. We had our chance to get a difference maker at NT, but took a project OLT instead.

And to be clear, Zimmer was absolutely screaming for Sweat. He asked Jerry for him, but Jerry's not smart enough to understand the DT position and when you should draft them highly.
 
Tavondre Sweat from the last draft. We had our chance to get a difference maker at NT, but took a project OLT instead.

And to be clear, Zimmer was absolutely screaming for Sweat. He asked Jerry for him, but Jerry's not smart enough to understand the DT position and when you should draft them highly.
I wish. I didn't like Guyton as he was a RT in college who had 8 total games starting experience....athletic perhaps, but NFL isn't the olympics.
 
I wish. I didn't like Guyton as he was a RT in college who had 8 total games starting experience....athletic perhaps, but NFL isn't the olympics.
RT for a left handed QB, which is ostensibly OLT.

However, very very raw. He has the tools, of that there is no doubt. I didn't mind the draft pick, but he's a "wait a year or two" draft pick, not an immediate starter. Since I knew this, how did they not know?

Jerry has a very strange way of thinking. Tyron Smith was also extremely raw when we took him. However, he immediately played at a high level. In Jerry-think, since Tyron did it anyone can do it. Jerry has not figured out that it doesn't work this way. Never will.
 
RT for a left handed QB, which is ostensibly OLT.

However, very very raw. He has the tools, of that there is no doubt. I didn't mind the draft pick, but he's a "wait a year or two" draft pick, not an immediate starter. Since I knew this, how did they not know?

Jerry has a very strange way of thinking. Tyron Smith was also extremely raw when we took him. However, he immediately played at a high level. In Jerry-think, since Tyron did it anyone can do it. Jerry has not figured out that it doesn't work this way. Never will.
the moves he makes often are not to make football team necessarily better as part of a bigger plan. its to fill roster. fill needs. satisfy fans.
 
what should we do now? should we do trades and for whom? which player should we select and why? who do we sign in FA and why? how do they mesh in the over all plan? what is the over all plan? and how do new players fit into the plan and what's their purpose.

so you said don't draft a 1T...well, on the other hand we were 28th in run defense, giving up average of 4.8 YPC....sounds like we need somebody to stop the runs....but also how does he fit into the rest of the defensive game plan? now you look at good run defense teams and 11 of the top 12 teams were in the playoffs only one of the other 20 were in the playoffs....so a 1T as unsexy as it sounds, maybe what we need. just looking at increasing the odds for success. but it has to be as close to sure as possible understanding there is never 100%.....its about risks you take.... you can try and swing for the fences, yes you will hit a home run sometimes, but you will also strike out a lot.

so if you can answer above questions now, and then we come back and evaluate in 3 years, 5 years or 10 years.....that would be fantastic. would be a nice post mortem analysis.

and again, at the time, I am going to repeat this again, at the time with facts and knowledge known then...not 30 years later....there was a lot of risk with a lot of the players, there were lots of unknowns. so do you like to gamble? and why? what's your ultimate goal and why gamble?

he could have picked the other players, but some as we now know didn't work out, some did....at the time all you had was the scouting report.
Johnson felt the cowboys were close. he had a plan and he wanted a KNOWN quantity than a gamble. he didn't want a home run hitter. he wanted somebody that can get on base consistently because he had the rest of the team to get him home (sorry baseball analogy here, as a different way of looking at it). why? because he felt confident that in his plan, he could make it to the superbowl and be champions....so why gamble if your ultimate goal was superbowls and not HOF players on your team. because he could more easily manage that. why take unnecessary risks? when you have a sure thing that you know its going to work and you can use for specific purpose that fits your plan. I mentioned this in another comment, Johnson even spoke to those points on why he went for maryland....

subsequently, as you have done post mortem analysis, I will do the same, my post mortem analysis is that he was right. he didn't gamble. he may have paid a little extra to get the player he wanted, to fill a cog in his team and end results speaks volumes more than we should have taken X player instead because 30 years later I am doing analysis and we have 1000000 of facts to come to a certain conlcusion, none of which were available then.

great post mortem analysis. not sure how it fits in what we should do moving forward. and perhaps its good for a chapter, or article in NFL history books.
So you label mine a post mortem analysis when no one is dead and every analysis will be on past events. Of course there is no significance other than you think that your crappy two liner at the end is equivalent which is basically you ignoring my arguments to repeat yourself: 'That team won the Super Bowl a couple years later so everything they did is gold.'

If anything it would not be post mortem it would be a trend analysis. I am guessing you are translating what I said into something you can understand without actually understanding it. If you want to pretend that trading up to #1 overall for a 1T is not a 'gamble' then you go right ahead.
 
Weak argument. DT is the most important position after QB to a super bowl path. You don't just give up because you failed here or there. If that's your argument, then you should give up and go away. Me? I still retain hope, even after all of the horrific decisions by this FO.

Maryland was not worth what we gave up to get him. Maryland was a very good solid player. You know, both can be true.
Market opinion which if analogous to what the professionals think with their real spending say differently. It ranks in the middle between center and receiver: https://overthecap.com/positional-value-in-the-nfl

I don't agree that the notions are true. 'Could be' is conspiracy reasoning. I am noticing another trend.
 
Best 1, 2, 3 in Cowboys history:

1973 3rd round, Harvey Martin, DE
1974 1st pick, 1st round in draft, Ed Too Tall Jones "larger than life"
1975 1st round 2nd pick overall, Randy "the Manster" White, best DL in college football
the they in this case would be the current management which has been in charge since 1989.
 
Tavondre Sweat from the last draft. We had our chance to get a difference maker at NT, but took a project OLT instead.

And to be clear, Zimmer was absolutely screaming for Sweat. He asked Jerry for him, but Jerry's not smart enough to understand the DT position and when you should draft them highly.
There is no proof that Zimmer did anything of the sort.
 
Weak argument. DT is the most important position after QB to a super bowl path. You don't just give up because you failed here or there. If that's your argument, then you should give up and go away. Me? I still retain hope, even after all of the horrific decisions by this FO.

Maryland was not worth what we gave up to get him. Maryland was a very good solid player. You know, both can be true.
Wasn’t the trade up to number 1 to draft Ismail but he the signed with CFL? I am actually glad we ended up with Maryland instead of him. Then drafted Alvin Harper later in the first round.
 
Wasn’t the trade up to number 1 to draft Ismail but he the signed with CFL? I am actually glad we ended up with Maryland instead of him. Then drafted Alvin Harper later in the first round.
Yes, it was. Maryland was the compensation pick.
 
There is no proof that Zimmer did anything of the sort.
My college roommate and one of my best friends knows Zimmer. Roomed w/ his son for a while. This is background info, the stuff you should be happy to get.
 
My college roommate and one of my best friends knows Zimmer. Roomed w/ his son for a while. This is background info, the stuff you should be happy to get.
So your proof is unprovable. I don't find you credible in the least.
 
Market opinion which if analogous to what the professionals think with their real spending say differently. It ranks in the middle between center and receiver: https://overthecap.com/positional-value-in-the-nfl

I don't agree that the notions are true. 'Could be' is conspiracy reasoning. I am noticing another trend.
It's not a notion. Maryland was considered by all the pundits/NFL people to be a good solid player. You're referring to professionals as to what they think, so then that means you are in agreement that Maryland was good. Excellent.
 
It's not a notion. Maryland was considered by all the pundits/NFL people to be a good solid player. You're referring to professionals as to what they think, so then that means you are in agreement that Maryland was good. Excellent.
There was not the landscape with multiple TV networks covering the draft and the web. There was basically Buschbaum who had a very small mailing list not privy to the public so much.

You don't get to speak for them or Zimmer or anyone else but yourself.
 
Maryland was not a compensation pick. He was what was left after they made the deal for first overall without checking with their target. That too was bad.
Oh geeeez, you just cannot be this lame.


Listen closely. Comp picks originated in 1994. Maryland was drafted in 1991.

There is a huge difference between "the comp pick" and "a comp pick". This is simple stuff, dude, gotta read.

Saying that "he was what was left" is the same thing as saying "the comp pick".
 
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