WR Comparison

[calicowboy54]

Receiver A played in 15 games the year before and had 75 receptions for 1005 yards and 6 TD's.
Receiver B played in 13 games and had 50 receptions for 796 and 8 TD's.

Hope that helps!

That does help a little but i said Season's Plural

but like others have said i'd go 14-16m a season for PlayerA & 6-8m a season for PlayerB

 

[glimmerman]

Stephen has already said they've been in contact. But I'm fine with letting it be McCarthy's call on it happening or not. I can see the positives, but if the head coach says no, I respect the decision and the chain of command.

I haven’t seen them try to force anything on MM yet. Looks like he is getting the control he asked for. He should get the players respect also.

 

[Stash]

That does help a little but i said Season's Plural

but like others have said i'd go 14-16m a season for PlayerA & 6-8m a season for PlayerB

You did see my follow up post regarding who each receiver was and their respective asking price's right?

 

[Stash]

I haven’t seen them try to force anything on MM yet. Looks like he is getting the control he asked for. He should get the players respect also.

I think so too. By all indications, they're allowing him to make the decisions, as he should. There's no doubt that they've given him every bit of the coaching staff that he's wanted, and then some!

 

[Redball Express]

Here is a comparison of season-long receiver stats between Receiver A and Receiver B:

Receiver A

79 receptions for 1189 yards and 8 TD's

Receiver B

69 receptions for 838 yards and 6 TD's

How much would you pay Receiver A and how much is Receiver B worth?

I am guessing the team has spread sheets of the entire NFL on this by position and rank.

And there probably some calculation that can be tweaked to circle the wagons on this.

Other things have to be analyzed..

1st downs attained, YAC, penalty yards incurred, number of plays, number of targets, drops, etc.

And how you weigh that stuff let's you arrive at a starting pay point or how your guy compares to people at the same position.

McCarthy seems to be an analytic. Bet he has somebody who runs the data for him.

If only using your line item of catches, yards and TDs..

definitely Player A.

But depending on the other stuff, you stand to have a safety net to keep you from overspending on a player/position.

The one intangible which is subjective is passion for playing the position.

That's a big thing only a coach can assign to a player.

Money?

Good question.

Flip a coin?

Paper, scissors, rock?

I'd make a crappy GM.

Ojeja boards is my tie breaker. Jerrah and Stephen use them all the time.

 

[Stash]

I am guessing the team has spread sheets of the entire NFL on this by position and rank.

And there probably some calculation that can be tweaked to circle the wagons on this.

Other things have to be analyzed..

1st downs attained, YAC, penalty yards incurred, number of plays, number of targets, drops, etc.

And how you weigh that stuff let's you arrive at a starting pay point or how your guy compares to people at the same position.

McCarthy seems to be an analytic. Bet he has somebody who runs the data for him.

If only using your line item of catches, yards and TDs..

definitely Player A.

But depending on the other stuff, you stand to have a safety net to keep you from overspending on a player/position.

The one intangible which is subjective is passion for playing the position.

That's a big thing only a coach can assign to a player.

Money?

Good question.

Flip a coin?

Paper, scissors, rock?

I'd make a crappy GM.

Ojeja boards is my tie breaker. Jerrah and Stephen use them all the time.

Read on in the thread for some added perspective.

 

[Typhus]

I'm asking you what you're getting at!

And you still haven't been able to clear that up at all. Say what you mean, don't insinuate and then talk about what you didn't say.

What do you want to do?

I don't know how to make it any clearer Stash,,, might be helpful if you spent some time, and Im not trying to be insulting here, Im just trying to explain, that if you took some time to take a look at what other teams that are on the rise in this league are doing,, how they draft, how they trend similarly in their build models, you might not have to ask me that last question, and we could have a rational discussion.

 

[Stash]

I don't know how to make it any clearer Stash,,, might be helpful if you spent some time, and Im not trying to be insulting here, Im just trying to explain, that if you took some time to take a look at what other teams that are on the rise in this league are doing,, how they draft, how they trend similarly in their build models, you might not have to ask me that last question, and we could have a rational discussion.

I'm looking to do just that, and I'm not trying to be insulting here either friend, but I can't have a discussion if you're unwilling to tell me what your plan to actually do entails? You can't see your own ambiguity here?

 

[Typhus]

I am guessing the team has spread sheets of the entire NFL on this by position and rank.

And there probably some calculation that can be tweaked to circle the wagons on this.

Other things have to be analyzed..

1st downs attained, YAC, penalty yards incurred, number of plays, number of targets, drops, etc.

And how you weigh that stuff let's you arrive at a starting pay point or how your guy compares to people at the same position.

McCarthy seems to be an analytic. Bet he has somebody who runs the data for him.

If only using your line item of catches, yards and TDs..

definitely Player A.

But depending on the other stuff, you stand to have a safety net to keep you from overspending on a player/position.

The one intangible which is subjective is passion for playing the position.

That's a big thing only a coach can assign to a player.

Money?

Good question.

Flip a coin?

Paper, scissors, rock?

I'd make a crappy GM.

Ojeja boards is my tie breaker. Jerrah and Stephen use them all the time.

That's always been the problem with stats Redball, is that they can be segmented and used as needed, to fit an agenda.
And you probably would be better than 35 - 40 percent of the GMs in this league,,, think about that for a moment.
People get payed, get jobs, because of who they know, not really what they know.

 

[Typhus]

I'm looking to do just that, and I'm not trying to be insulting here either friend, but I can't have a discussion if you're unwilling to tell me what your plan to actually do entails? You can't see your own ambiguity here?

There you go again,,, what was the topic?
I am more than willing to discuss anything,, your just the master of deflection,, doesn't mean I don't enjoy you on this forum for that, but if you want to knock heads, then Im willing.
Just be more directional, lets quit playing games.

 

[Stash]

There you go again,,, what was the topic?
I am more than willing to discuss anything,, your just the master of deflection,, doesn't mean I don't enjoy you on this forum for that, but if you want to knock heads, then Im willing.
Just be more directional, lets quit playing games.

There I go? Seriously?

Dude, I'll point you to your own post:

\
No white flag here..
Lets take a look at two teams...
KC - Mecole Hardman round 2 - 24th pick
Tenn - AJ Borwn round 2 - 19th pick
Do you think those two teams are stagnating their WR development by bringing in a Dez Bryant?
Do you know the difference that those two rookie WRs made on their respective teams this year, and how much of difference that those two players will make on their respective teams going forward?

What does this have to do with what the Cowboys should do?

What are you suggesting that the team actually do?

How hard is this question for you to answer?

 

[Typhus]

There I go? Seriously?

Dude, I'll point you to your own post:



What does this have to do with what the Cowboys should do?

What are you suggesting that the team actually do?

How hard is this question for you to answer?

Damn brother stash,, ask me on a Saturday,, Im a working man,,, I will love to continue this, engage here,, believe me,, if you want to listen, I will let it fly.
Look bro , Im no GM, your no GM, Redball is no GM, JS walker is no GM,, we can go on and on, there are like 60 thousand GMs that have registered to post here... I know, can you believe it.
I don't pretend to be the genius, and if your baiting me, than that's fine, I study a bit, for like 40 years, not just on this franchise, I find the draft to be very intriguing, and lately, trends, how successful teams are building in todays game, and how that differentiates from past era build models.
This is a new era, and sure.... Im more than willing to discuss that in detail, any time,, I respect your opinion as well,, discussions don't have to be a battle, just a meeting of the minds.
But what I have on my mind will take like a whole weekend of debate...lol,, Im not hiding,, Im here,, just call me to post this weekend, even during the week, but I can only stand my ground for so long during the week, and that ground his falling from under my feet as I post,,,

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

The truth is none of these guys are worth the money they are asking for or getting. Results outweigh stats and we're coming off of a season where the results were not good. Eight and eight is average and so are all of these guys. I would sign Dak, Cooper, and Jones to a three year deal each, to see what they can do with better coaching, while drafting their potential replacements this year.

That's our best bet.

 

[Stash]

Damn brother stash,, ask me on a Saturday,, Im a working man,,, I will love to continue this, engage here,, believe me,, if you want to listen, I will let it fly.
Look bro , Im no GM, your no GM, Redball is no GM, JS walker is no GM,, we can go on and on, there are like 60 thousand GMs that have registered to post here... I know, can you believe it.
I don't pretend to be the genius, and if your baiting me, than that's fine, I study a bit, for like 40 years, not just on this franchise, I find the draft to be very intriguing, and lately, trends, how successful teams are building in todays game, and how that differentiates from past era build models.
This is a new era, and sure.... Im more than willing to discuss that in detail, any time,, I respect your opinion as well,, discussions don't have to be a battle, just a meeting of the minds.

I agree man, I'm just curious as to what your plan would be if it were your call? As in what you feel the Cowboys should do? We're all wannabe GM's at the end of the day, even the owner.

But if you're going to suggest what not to do, you should be obligated to say what to do as well.

Showing me two receivers from a particular draft doesn't tell or show me anything.

But hey, no "battle" on my end, just looking for conversation and a bit of explanation, that's all.

 

[Miller]

Yeah I just don't see either guy falling to 17.. I guess it could happen but it would be a shocker.

I love this WR class but trying to sort them out is nearly impossible.

I like the USC guy.. Big fluid WR that can make the contested catch but there really is 10 or 15 starting caliber WR's.

Jeudy looks like an Antonio Brown starter kit.

Lamb looks like a Deandre Hopkins starter kit.

If TCUs Reagor fell into the mid second I'd strongly consider him. Strong, good hands, great runner.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

Does receiver B also have bizarre home/road splits?

LLLOOOLLL

 

[nobody]

I'm just pointing out the lack of perspective and outright hypocrisy of some people's opinions around here. One guy is worth paying the moon for, and the other guy is "terrible", and "washed up". Based on a difference of 10 receptions, 3000 yards, and 2 TD's.

This isn't advocating for Dez Bryant to replace Cooper before anyone gets that silly idea. But it's about pointing out the foolishness of people who try to claim that Bryant was washed up in 2017. As the only receiving threat in a Scott Linehan offense, when excuses are made all over for the RB being suspended and the QB's struggles.

If people don't like Bryant personally, that's fine. Just say that. But don't try to falsely categorize him as washed up when we're about to give Cooper a huge payday. All they succeed in doing then is looking foolish and uninformed.

I've got nothing against Bryant, but he was pretty much all athleticism...and has aged. Also, throw in their catch percentage numbers for those seasons you listed:

Amari Cooper: 66.4%
Dez Bryant: 53.3%

That's receptions divided by targets....and it's a HUGE gap in comparing number ones. Amari is one of the best route runners in the game. Dez...has been accused of refusing to learn the route tree and only running a few. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but it's something many people in the media have commented on over the years.

There's a 6 year difference in age which is quite a large gap and one of the guys is on the wrong side of 30.

Now, Amari didn't help himself when he disappeared in road games, or when he looked checked out in the last few games....but he'd been playing hurt most of the season.
Dez has passion, which is a big plus, but the receivers that last into their 30's are the ones that learn good route running and other receiver tricks to overcome the loss of athleticism.

I think you're overstating his ability however. Dez was healthy in 2017 and Amari was hurt a lot of 2019.

I'm all for bringing Dez in at training camp and seeing if he can legitimately earn a roster spot at vet minimum, however.

 

[Typhus]

I agree man, I'm just curious as to what your plan would be if it were your call? As in what you feel the Cowboys should do? We're all wannabe GM's at the end of the day, even the owner.

But if you're going to suggest what not to do, you should be obligated to say what to do as well.

Showing me two receivers from a particular draft doesn't tell or show me anything.

But hey, no "battle" on my end, just looking for conversation and a bit of explanation, that's all.

I agree, just asking that you allow me some time, I have obligations. like and insanely hard job...lol like most...
But you should know me by now, that I wont disappear.. I appreciate this discussion,, it could be the monster thread of all time... maybe, maybe not, but its is intriguing offseason discussion, and this board needs it,, I will be in here on Saturday, and look forward to you calling me out,,,

 

[Stash]

I agree, just asking that you allow me some time, I have obligations. like and insanely hard job...lol like most...
But you should know me by now, that I wont disappear.. I appreciate this discussion,, it could be the monster thread of all time... maybe, maybe not, but its is intriguing offseason discussion, and this board needs it,, I will be in here on Saturday, and look forward to you calling me out,,,

Won't be 'calling you out', but looking forward to further conversation.

Have a great day and get back to work!

 

[Redball Express]

I agree, just asking that you allow me some time, I have obligations. like and insanely hard job...lol like most...
But you should know me by now, that I wont disappear.. I appreciate this discussion,, it could be the monster thread of all time... maybe, maybe not, but its is intriguing offseason discussion, and this board needs it,, I will be in here on Saturday, and look forward to you calling me out,,,

Enjoyed your chat too.

Fun like HS Debate Club.

Fun like my ex-wife in the old days..

"I told you not to wash my undies in the washer. Hand wash them.

you want it hand washed? I don't have time..sorry. I'm late for the driving range with my buddies.

Ok..well you better pickup dinner, I don't have time to cook. I'll be washing my underwear. Sorry.

Ok, bye.

Bye."

This is what you guys remind me of. An old married couple.