Twitter: Tyron Smith and Zach Martin named to Pro football HOF 2010s All-Decade Team

[ABQCOWBOY]

Coaches, media, and players literally vote Pouncey to the pro bowl, all-pro team, and NFL top 100 every single year. Where is this magical breakdown that he's not good when literally EVERYONE is saying he is ? (you got a link of this breakdown of Pouncey not being elite ?)
There chances are literally zero. There logged jammed in the very good but nothing elite or spectacular.

There accolades are literally a dime a dozen (Alex Mack, Ryan Kalil, Andrew Gurode, Olin Kreutz, Jeff Saturday, and Nick Mangold are all mostly interchangeable). Being a dime a dozen isn't hall of fame

I never said he was not good. I said he wasn't that good. He wasn't the All Decade Center. The rest of what you posted is on you.

Mack, Kalil, Kreutz, Saturday, Mangold, all better IMO.

 

[Praxit]

...to much time on my hands, I'd say. ..

 

[OmerV]

Yes, I used to coach OL, at one point. I do break down players and technique. Do I do that every week? No, I don't have access to all the necessary video to do that and frankly, the last couple of years, I don't really watch as much football as I used to but I do know this player. I've watched him since he was at Florida. I actually liked him when he came out but over the years, he's not as good as other Centers I've seen in the decade IMO.

So that's as honest an answer as I can give. If you like the guy better, cool. But you just said you've never broken the player down so I don't know how you can fault me for my opinion when you admit you have never broken down any of these players.

Whatever, if your opinion is that he is an all decade Center, cool. I think there were other's who were better.

Where did I say he was an all decade center, or liked him better? Please don't start making up things as if that makes a point. I said had had credentials and earned consideration for that honor.

As for breaking him down, I don't think any fan is qualified to make a clear, definitive call on a center. We can at least get a good idea with QB's and RBs because those are the guys the camera stays on, and the guys fans focus on. Even then it's hard to be definitive because fans don't watch all players and all teams equally, and of course, perception can be colored by biases toward some teams, and preference toward others. But a center is neither the focus of the camera or the viewer, and that adds a huge stumbling block to a definitive evaluation on top of fans not watching all teams and players equally.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Where did I say he was an all decade center, or liked him better? Please don't start making up things as if that makes a point. I said had had credentials and earned consideration for that honor.

As for breaking him down, I don't think any fan is qualified to make a clear, definitive call on a center. We can at least get a good idea with QB's and RBs because those are the guys the camera stays on, and the guys fans focus on. Even then it's hard to be definitive because fans don't watch all players and all teams equally, and of course, perception can be colored by biases toward some teams, and preference toward others. But a center is neither the focus of the camera or the viewer, and that adds a huge stumbling block to a definitive evaluation on top of fans not watching all teams and players equally.

In post 64, you said this:

Hard to argue against Pounce given all the honors, plus he played the entire decade, and Frederick missed 4 years of it.

So if you are not saying he is an all Decade Center, then what exactly are you saying when you suggest that it's hard to argue against his selection?

So you don't believe any fan can evaluate an OL. OK, that's fine, again I don't agree but either way, it's the reason I always say, IMO. It is you who is making declarative statements here.

 

[G2]

Who says it's not? Again, if that's not your opinion, that's fine but it's not everybodies. It's definitely not mine. What in the world could be more reasonable then watching a player and evaluating him on what you see? What in the world is more fair or reasonable then that? There are a lot of very knowledgeable, very experienced people on this board, capable of watching players and understand what they are seeing. I don't like Pouncey, I don't think he's all that good. I think other players were definitely better.

I don't think Fredbeard should be that guy either. I've already told you who I thought the best Center was. It's really not close and I don't understand how anybody would really argue the point. Mangold was much better IMO.

Who's your favorite team?

 

[OmerV]

In post 64, you said this:



So if you are not saying he is an all Decade Center, then what exactly are you saying when you suggest that it's hard to argue against his selection?

So you don't believe any fan can evaluate an OL. OK, that's fine, again I don't agree but either way, it's the reason I always say, IMO. It is you who is making declarative statements here.

I said it was hard to argue against Pouncey. I didn't say there weren't arguments for others or that I like him better than Frederick or anyone else. Plus, since then I have consistently talked about him being worthy of consideration, and that he had the credentials for consideration. Additionally, I have specifically said I can't claim to know who is best because like virtually all other fans I don't spend significant time watching and closely evaluating centers all over the NFL week after week.

Accordingly, you read more into one post than I actually said, and ignored what I have said repeatedly in other posts since then.

Again, as I have repeatedly said, and what should have been abundantly clear that I said, is that Pouncey has earned the consideration, and that all of his accolades cannot be solely be due to fans, players, coaches and writers all feeling compelled to vote for a Steeler.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I said it was hard to argue against Pouncey. I didn't say there weren't arguments for others or that I like him better than Frederick or anyone else. Plus, since then I have consistently talked about him being worthy of consideration, and that he had the credentials for consideration. Additionally, I have specifically said I can't claim to know who is best because like virtually all other fans I don't spend significant time watching and closely evaluating centers all over the NFL week after week.

Accordingly, you read more into one post than I actually said, and ignored what I have said repeatedly in other posts since then.

Again, as I have repeatedly said, and what should have been abundantly clear that I said, is that Pouncey has earned the consideration, and that all of his accolades cannot be solely be due to fans, players, coaches and writers all feeling compelled to vote for a Steeler.

OK, I don't think it is. I read nothing at all into it. From the start, I provided several players I felt were better. In short, I do not base this off of anything other then what I've seen. If you don't agree, then you don't agree, which is what I've said all along. If you don't agree, you don't agree. But I don't think it's hard at all. You don't believe players can be evaluated by fans. I believe they can be.

What is it that you think was read into your response?

 

[OmerV]

OK, I don't think it is. I read nothing at all into it. From the start, I provided several players I felt were better. In short, I do not base this off of anything other then what I've seen. If you don't agree, then you don't agree, which is what I've said all along. If you don't agree, you don't agree. But I don't think it's hard at all. You don't believe players can be evaluated by fans. I believe they can be.

What is it that you think was read into your response?

And, from the start, I never said the players you provided weren't better or that I thought Pouncey was better. Hell, I didn't compare Pouncey to them at all. Again, you are reading something into my words that are not there, and I'm not sure why it's so important for you to do that. I never once claimed to know who was better or that therearen't arguments for other centers, so please quit posting as if I did.

Again (and again and again, and over and over and over) I have merely indicated that Pouncey had strong credentials for the designation and that it doesn't make sense to say those credentials are built solely on being a Steeler. There just isn't a logical argument for that.

I really don't think I have any choice at this point except to believe you are intentionally misrepresenting my comments.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

And, from the start, I never said the players you provided weren't better or that I thought Pouncey was better. Hell, I didn't compare Pouncey to them at all. Again, you are reading something into my words that are not there, and I'm not sure why it's so important for you to do that. I never once claimed to know who was better or that therearen't arguments for other centers, so please quit posting as if I did.

Again (and again and again, and over and over and over) I have merely indicated that Pouncey had strong credentials for the designation and that it doesn't make sense to say those credentials are built solely on being a Steeler. There just isn't a logical argument for that.

I really don't think I have any choice at this point except to believe you are intentionally misrepresenting my comments.

I see. And what is it you believe I'm reading into this? For what reason?

 

[OmerV]

I see. And what is it you believe I'm reading into this?

You would have to be an idiot to not understand that, because I've answered it repeatedly. Rather than believe that, I'll just assume you aren't trying to have a real conversation and I'll move along.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You would have to be an idiot to not understand that, because I've answered it repeatedly. Rather than believe that, I'll just assume you aren't trying to have a real conversation and I'll move along.

Very well, if your view of me is "Idiot" I will accept that and just move on, once again, asking for the answer. You see, I don't believe you have answered the question. You go out of your way to point out what you said but you don't answer the question asked.

Again, the question, what do you believe I'm reading into this and for what reason?

 

[Tussinman]

Again, the question, what do you believe I'm reading into this and for what reason?

Your spinning OmerV as "we'll if you like him thats fine" and "if you think he's better that's fine" but that was never his point

He basically stated the accolades he received are more than enough merit to make the all-decade team and that to think him playing for the Steelers granted him his praise/success then that would be a borderline conspiracy.

I'm not seeing any confusion with any of this ?

I never once claimed to know who was better or that therearen't arguments for other centers, so please quit posting as if I did.

Again (and again and again, and over and over and over) I have merely indicated that Pouncey had strong credentials for the designation and that it doesn't make sense to say those credentials are built solely on being a Steeler. There just isn't a logical argument for that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Your spinning OmerV as "we'll if you like him thats fine" and "if you think he's better that's fine" but that was never his point

He basically stated the accolades he received are more than enough merit to make the all-decade team and that to think him playing for the Steelers granted him his praise/success then that would be a borderline conspiracy.

I'm not seeing any confusion with any of this ?

No, I'm not. I'm asking him to answer the question. I'm not asking you anything. I have already acknowledged that there are different opinions and whatever anybody thinks is fine. I do not require approval of that position.

The accolades are not what I've based my opinion on, once again. I heard that the first time. I reject it out of hand. It is, after all, my opinion, is it not?

You are 27, you are not old enough to have witnessed the Steelers Bias first hand. I will look passed that but don't try and tell me about conspiracy theories. They are not theories.

 

[OmerV]

No, I'm not. I'm asking him to answer the question. I'm not asking you anything. I have already acknowledged that there are different opinions and whatever anybody thinks is fine. I do not require approval of that position.

The accolades are not what I've based my opinion on, once again. I heard that the first time. I reject it out of hand. It is, after all, my opinion, is it not?

You are 27, you are not old enough to have witnessed the Steelers Bias first hand. I will look passed that but don't try and tell me about conspiracy theories. They are not theories.

Surely you are more capable of comprehension than this. I never said you based your opinion on that, nor did I say your opinion about who was better was wrong. I never remotely said those things, yet you keep posting as if I did.

My ONLY point was that Pouncey earned his consideration for the honor, and it wasn't just based on him being a Steeler. You somehow find it impossible to distinguish that from saying "he's the best" or "I like him the best" or "no other center has also earned consideration", or "the guys you think are better aren't". It's really not hard to see the distinction.

Saying one guy is worthy of consideration is not the equivalent of saying no other guy is worthy of consideration, or that you are wrong for preferring someone else. How in the world is that hard to understand?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Surely you are more capable of comprehension than this. I never said you based your opinion on that, nor did I say your opinion about who was better was wrong. I never remotely said those things, yet you keep posting as if I did.

My ONLY point was that Pouncey earned his consideration for the honor, and it wasn't just based on him being a Steeler. You somehow find it impossible to distinguish that from saying "he's the best" or "I like him the best" or "no other center has also earned consideration", or "the guys you think are better aren't". It's really not hard to see the distinction.

Saying one guy is worthy of consideration is not the equivalent of saying no other guy is worthy of consideration, or that you are wrong for preferring someone else. How in the world is that hard to understand?

No, apparently I'm an idiot but please, don't let that stop you. Please answer the question I've asked of you.

 

[OmerV]

No, apparently I'm an idiot but please, don't let that stop you. Please answer the question I've asked of you.

6-7 times isn't enough? Why would 8 be the charm?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

6-7 times isn't enough? Why would 8 be the charm?

No, it would be, if you actually answer the question. I'll ask it again, apparently the 6-7, 8 times a charm rule doesn't apply to the question part.

You've said I'm reading things into this. What do you believe I'm reading into your statements and for what purpose?

 

[OmerV]

No, it would be, if you actually answer the question. I'll ask it again, apparently the 6-7, 8 times a charm rule doesn't apply to the question part.

You've said I'm reading things into this. What do you believe I'm reading into your statements and for what purpose?

lol - that I said Pouncey was the best choice. That I dismissed your choices as less than Pouncey. That I like Pouncey better than others, including Frederick. Sound familiar, or do you still not recall me telling you all this? Several times.

And at the same time you have repeatedly responded as if you somehow missed what I actually wrote, and instead chose to interpret as you want to believe. I've explained, and clarified, and explained some more, telling you what my point was, and that you are suggesting something different than my point, and you still keep coming back suggesting I've said something I did not. It's tiresome, and I feel ridiculous for having explained yet again. It's not hard to grasp, but if you can't that's your fault.

 

[MarcusRock]

He basically stated the accolades he received are more than enough merit to make the all-decade team and that to think him playing for the Steelers granted him his praise/success then that would be a borderline conspiracy.

Conspiracy is all this board does, lol. Two Cowboys in the HOF class, "Nope. We was robbed because 3 didn't go in." Two Cowboys on the all-decade team from the same OL, "Nope, why weren't there 3 from the same line? Robbery!"

 

[OmerV]

Conspiracy is all this board does, lol. Two Cowboys in the HOF class, "Nope. We was robbed because 3 didn't go in." Two Cowboys on the all-decade team from the same OL, "Nope, why weren't there 3 from the same line? Robbery!"

lol - exactly. This is a point I've thought about but haven't yet mentioned. Hell, even if Frederick was the best choice, do we really think they would vote in 3 people from the same team on the O-Line. I don't care if it's the Cowboys or any other team, that's unlikely. But aside from that, it's not as if their aren't other worthy candidates. Frederick being very good doesn't somehow mean there aren't others that are very good.