Dak vs Top 10 Defenses - What really happened

SteveTheCowboy

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I don't believe the masses believe he was woefully below average. I think that's a myth. I think they believe he is not one of the top QBs in this regard, which suggest top 5 etc. See, this is the thing. Dak is no longer playing in that kind of league. Dak is being offered top money in the NFL so expectations have changed for him. This is the new reality for him and it's not going to change. He will no longer be measured by average and average results, in any capacity, will be viewed as failures and that's fair. He's put himself in this situation and now, this is how it is for him.
817Gill was using dishonest hyperbole. OF COURSE not very many people think he is "woefully" below average.

In fact "average" is what I hear from just about everyone, anti or pro.

And you make a good point. If Dak and his biggest fans think THIS is heat....he's gonna have to elevate to top 5 QB period both in stats AND "eye test" and whatever toehr kinds of tests apply.
 

SteveTheCowboy

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You mean Dak?


Sorry for the confusion there...my text went haywire.

But yes.....ROmo is not being brought up right now, since well...he's no longer on the team. But I remember several forums back then blowing up about Romo's big money.

Dak IS on the team..."apparently" holding out. So he's gonna get talked about.
 

SteveTheCowboy

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Yet, you aren't paid based on your "skill" exclusively. That goes for even outside of the NFL. If Jerry sold the Cowboys do you think he'd sell based on what they are worth?
Yes...what it is worth TO HIM.

But it's moot as he doesn't care too much about the actual money part. It's an empire not an investment.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Sorry for the confusion there...my text went haywire.

But yes.....ROmo is not being brought up right now, since well...he's no longer on the team. But I remember several forums back then blowing up about Romo's big money.

Dak IS on the team..."apparently" holding out. So he's gonna get talked about.
Well he's not really holding out.......yet.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Yes...what it is worth TO HIM.

But it's moot as he doesn't care too much about the actual money part. It's an empire not an investment.
Right. What its worth to him. And that's how contracts are done. They are done based on what you are worth to that team.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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When it comes to Dak wanting to be the highest paid QB it sure the hell does. Why else do you think these contract talks are dragging on?
That's not how it works though. You can't make no rules up for Dak because....well for whatever reason. That's not how this works. Its not how it works in life either. When you sell your car it is worth what someone is willing to pay. In sports......Carson Wentz is worth what someone is willing to pay. Robert Quinn.....he was worth what someone was willing to pay. You are not paid based on skill exclusively. Especially when you are in your mid 20's.
 

Swagger

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Yes....when Russel, Rodgers and Ryan were Dak's age? They had some piss poor performances.. Hell they still have piss poor performances today especially Matt Ryan.

If Dak's shoulder wasn't bothering him you guys haven't came up with a valid argument for why he was bad that game other than he just sucks. He's never played poor in a playoff performance so you can't say it was the pressure that got to him. What was it?

Of course every QB has poor performances but often even when they have an off day they still eventually make a few throws to get it done. Mahomes didn't really play well in the Superbowl - arguably outplayed by Jimmy G for the best part of three quarters, but he eventually made a few throws despite having an off day.

In the Eagles game Prescott didn't even need to play well, he just needed to be bang average of even slightly below par would have been enough - just not awful.

I personally don't think the pressure got to him at all. I'm not one who criticises him for that. He hasn't really played many play off games - I thought he was ok in all of them. Nothing spectacular but nothing awful. He wasn't the reason for winning or losing any of those games but as far as I'm concerned that's who/what he is. A solid and durable game manager and my point has always been that we could have a QB like that (e.g. Dalton) without paying $35+ million a season. If there wasn't a salary cap then I would have no issue signing Prescott over Dalton regardless of the cost. It's not my money so why should I care!? But given there is a salary cap, we could sign two elite players on defense plus arguably have similar QB play in terms of productivity with Dalton for the same price of just having Prescott.

Some people take the view that he's on course to improve and play to a Russell Wilson level and maybe even close to Mahomes. As a result he's worth a big long term contract. I personally never see that level of play happening on a consistent basis but everyone is entitled to their opinion including myself.
 

CowboyRoy

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Look...I asked you a simple question to back up your statement. And here's your second deflection.

Hypocrisy? LOL coming from you that's rich. You refuse to do what you demand of others...judge one player the same way you judge another. Your zeke hate is impressive.

Never a bad word about Garret huh? Really...did you keep a straight face saying that?
And we also went through this with zeke last year. Lotta people said let the bum sit. I was one of them.

If you were interested in a "rational" (and polite) conversation you would have answered my question the first time.

what simple question are you asking?

I judge Dak as I judge anyone else. Realistically.

Difference is I talk about everyone from Garrett to the defense to Dak.
 
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CowboyRoy

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exactly. People trot out whatever stats they think supports their opinion. But in the end....what have we seen Dak do that make you go..."what? What did he just do? What just happened!?

I can think of numerous games...in the last 4-5 years Aaron Rodgers I Was like "What in the entire f...".

LOL...…..Dak is a 4th year QB and what he did last year was incredible. Rookie of the year, two pro bowls, 1 yard shy of shattering the all time Cowboys passing record, two playoffs, one playoff win leading one of the top 3 ranked offenses in yards of all time. But he did nothing. LOL

You trolls compare Dak to elite QB's in their prime. Laughable. Shows you have no idea about QB development or QB play.
 

CowboyRoy

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Of course there's an agenda. The agenda is that Dak, while a good QB, is not an elite QB and doesn't deserve to be the highest paid QB in the NFL.

Ok, Dak isn't elite and doenst deserve elite QB money. Is that your only point? No kidding.

Cooper got elite money, didn't deserve it, Lawrence got elite money, didn't deserve it, Jones got elite money didn't deserve it.

So is this your only point or are you just stating the obvious?

Zeke got 15 million and didn't deserve it. No RB is worth that.
 

CowboyRoy

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People will claim the Colts game was Prescott's worst performance as the offense somehow put up zero points but I regard the Eagles game as his worst for the Cowboys.

Some seem to think that the Eagles had their full team out and we were playing our reserves but the reality was that we pretty much had all of our boys in that game. The Eagles didn't have a recognised receiver, their RB1 was injured, pretty sure Ertz got injured, Lane Johnson was out, from memory Peters may have got injured as well - he seemed to go down in most games down the stretch last season! Again from memory I'm pretty sure Pederson made some poor decisions as well during the game which backfired and arguably cost points. So whilst he is a better coach than Garrett, he didn't exactly outshine him massively in this particular game. People blamed Garrett for not using Zeke more than he did but the Eagles sold out to shut down the running game. Their secondary was there for the taking, as it was down the stretch, and I think it was reasonable for the coaching staff to take what was offered but Prescott missed countless throws and the receivers dropped several balls. The Defense only gave up 17 points. Realistically couldn't expect more than that. The offense lost us this game - there were so many plays butchered by poor throwing and sloppy catching. Prescott genuinely looked like a back up QB in this game.

The Eagles were simply there for the taking. Prescott only had to make a couple of the throws he missed for us to win. I remember the biggest play he made mid way to Gallop was massively underthrown yet somehow not intercepted by Darby.

I think it was Aikman who commented that Prescott's arm looked fine in the warm up and he played versus the Commanders a week or so later and looked fine. If he was injured and knew he couldn't throw the ball properly then he shouldn't have played.

The reason why people highlight the game is that I can't recall the likes of Wilson, Rodgers or even Ryan playing this badly in a very winnable key game. All of the aforementioned quarterbacks are regarded as franchise QBs, some on here hold Prescott to the same standard. If he wants to be paid like a franchise QB then he needs to play like one and he didn't in this game. The main point is that it wasn't a difficult ask to hit wide open receivers on a few of those wayward throws. It's not just a lazy criticism of a poor performance in a game where the defense threw him under the bus and gave him little chance (e.g. the Vikings game last season where Prescott put in his best performance regardless of what the stats say). The D conceded 17 points away from home against a secondary that was there for the taking.

And what was his best performance?
 

charron

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Yea he sure burned them didn't he.....he did vs minnesota can't blame the guy with 3 TD's. But they are all still losses, most were low scoring games, still shows he struggles scoring TD's.
 

jterrell

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Based on the qbs that were faced, it's the average of those qbs..yes, it is..
Which tells you something about the defenses but nothing about the QBs.
The defenses were top 10 and thus the thing being compared.

Dak was compared versus those defenses average yield regardless of opponent faced.
 

jterrell

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People will claim the Colts game was Prescott's worst performance as the offense somehow put up zero points but I regard the Eagles game as his worst for the Cowboys.

Some seem to think that the Eagles had their full team out and we were playing our reserves but the reality was that we pretty much had all of our boys in that game. The Eagles didn't have a recognised receiver, their RB1 was injured, pretty sure Ertz got injured, Lane Johnson was out, from memory Peters may have got injured as well - he seemed to go down in most games down the stretch last season! Again from memory I'm pretty sure Pederson made some poor decisions as well during the game which backfired and arguably cost points. So whilst he is a better coach than Garrett, he didn't exactly outshine him massively in this particular game. People blamed Garrett for not using Zeke more than he did but the Eagles sold out to shut down the running game. Their secondary was there for the taking, as it was down the stretch, and I think it was reasonable for the coaching staff to take what was offered but Prescott missed countless throws and the receivers dropped several balls. The Defense only gave up 17 points. Realistically couldn't expect more than that. The offense lost us this game - there were so many plays butchered by poor throwing and sloppy catching. Prescott genuinely looked like a back up QB in this game.

The Eagles were simply there for the taking. Prescott only had to make a couple of the throws he missed for us to win. I remember the biggest play he made mid way to Gallop was massively underthrown yet somehow not intercepted by Darby.

I think it was Aikman who commented that Prescott's arm looked fine in the warm up and he played versus the Commanders a week or so later and looked fine. If he was injured and knew he couldn't throw the ball properly then he shouldn't have played.

The reason why people highlight the game is that I can't recall the likes of Wilson, Rodgers or even Ryan playing this badly in a very winnable key game. All of the aforementioned quarterbacks are regarded as franchise QBs, some on here hold Prescott to the same standard. If he wants to be paid like a franchise QB then he needs to play like one and he didn't in this game. The main point is that it wasn't a difficult ask to hit wide open receivers on a few of those wayward throws. It's not just a lazy criticism of a poor performance in a game where the defense threw him under the bus and gave him little chance (e.g. the Vikings game last season where Prescott put in his best performance regardless of what the stats say). The D conceded 17 points away from home against a secondary that was there for the taking.
This is largely nonsense.
Like most things stated on here it is silliness stated over-confidently.

Dak beat Wilson in a PLAYOFF Game. SEA also lost a SB giving ball to Russ instead of running it with Beastmode.
Ryan has crapped the bed fantastically to the tune of a 28-3 comeback loss that is the most famous implosion in modern NFL history.
Rodgers has crushed Dallas but surprisingly been mediocre versus others in winning situations.
Brady is the one guy who hasn't blown one.

The Eagles were healthy on defense. They were in the midst of 3 wins out of a 4 game winning streak.
Wentz for the one moment in the 4 years since they had been drafted was far healthier than Dak.
The Cowboys had WRs drop 4 passes in that game. 4. It was a season high.
The Eagles had a healthy RB stable and the TEs torched Dallas.
Goedert had his best day as a pro and Miles Sanders easily outplayed Zeke.


Dak has owned the NFCE since he was drafted. He was injured and wasn't good enough in this one game.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Dak isn't being judged over the last Philly game. Dak is being judged over the second half of the season IMO.

Cowboys finished 8-8. Over the last 8 games of the season, the team and Dak went 2-6. That, IMO, is what most fans are judging him on.

JMO
 

SteveTheCowboy

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Right. What its worth to him. And that's how contracts are done. They are done based on what you are worth to that team.

"Buying" a product (say Dak?) and "selling" a product (say The Cowboys) are totally different things. You BUY low and SELL high. At least rich people do anyway. So it's not really a great analogy, but anyway...
The bottom line is yes....Jerry would only pay "what it's worth". The fact that Jerry signs the contract would dictate that.

But...it doesn't mean it's his preferred worth. Well pretty sure anyway. :oops:
 

SteveTheCowboy

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LOL...…..Dak is a 4th year QB and what he did last year was incredible. Rookie of the year, two pro bowls, 1 yard shy of shattering the all time Cowboys passing record, two playoffs, one playoff win leading one of the top 3 ranked offenses in yards of all time. But he did nothing. LOL

You trolls compare Dak to elite QB's in their prime. Laughable. Shows you have no idea about QB development or QB play.
You got me wrong. You think just because I find some "criticism" :confused: and I don;t agree with every single thing you say about Dak...it makes me a troll.

Ridiculous. You read what you want and skip over the rest because it doesn't suit your crusade agenda.

I have MANY posts supporting Dak. I also want who the coaches see as the best player to start. No free passes. So that means Dalton deserves a fair shot. If isn't better than Dak...I am perfectly fine going with Dak. I;d like to see him improve on some specific plays....but I don;t want him gone just because either.

Your shtick is getting tiresome. You want to put it all in nice tidy box so you can't rant about.
 
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