What exactly does "make the players around you better" mean?

[JBS]

So Peyton made Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne better?

Are these the only two wrs Manning played with?

Manning made a bunch of scrubs really good too..a lot of them..

Stokely
Tamme
Collie
Clark (not a scrub but he was great w Peyton)
A. Gonzalez
J. Thomas

This is just a handful..theres definitely more

 

[Whirlwin]

I've heard this used to describe guys like Tom Brady and Russell Wilson. But how exactly do you gauge someone making another player better? Did Joe Montana make Jerry Rice better? Did Troy make Michael Irvin better? I've always had a problem grasping this. Because if I go by the stats...........



In 14 games in 2016 Amari Cooper in 14 games had 48 receptions on 96 attempts for 680 yards while averaging 14.2 yards a catch.......



In 2017 prior to getting to Dallas in 6 games he had 22 catches on 31 targets for 280 yards at 12.7 yards a catch and a touchdown. Safe to say he was going to have a even worse year.



Comes to Dallas and in 9 games has 53 catches on 76 targets at 13.7 yards a catch and 6 Touchdowns.

Season after has 79 catches on 119 targets at 15.1 yards a catch for 8 touchdowns.




On to Randall Cobb.

He's had some injuries recently...miraculously got healthy with Dallas somehow.

Maybe a bit unfair to judge him on his 2018 season with Aaron Rodgers so let's go a year prior to 2017 where he played 15 games.

66 catches on 91 targets for 653 yards on a average of 9.9 yards a catch for 4 touchdowns.

In 2019 with Dallas he had 55 catches for 828 yards on 15.1 yards a catch and 3 touchdowns.....all while being the 3rd best receiver on the team.



Anyone want to help me understand what "makes his receivers better" mean?

I Imagine,it’s work ethic. Preparation.

 

[Whirlwin]

Like how Romo made Laurent Robinson better than he ever for 1 year.

Do you mean by actually passing the ball to him.

 

[DFWJC]

I just don’t see how you can help one receiver and then get credit for it but not get credit for the receiver who plays like a bum.

Certainly didn't get anything special out of Roy.
Then again, nobody else did after his short stint in Dallas either.
But yes, if you want to pick one receiver out of many, he would be the one.

 

[Whirlwin]

Certainly didn't get anything special out of Roy.
Then again, nobody else did after his short stint in Dallas either.
But yes, if you want to pick one receiver out of many, he would be the one.

Alvin hopper. And I’m sure we could go on and on. It’s basically about the chemistry and how much you trusted by your quarterback

 

[Sevenup3000]

a more tangible thing is against the jets where a few guys get hurt and dak and the offense can’t do a thing or zeke gets suspended and dak and the cowboys can not even score 10 points in a game. the ability to perform when every thing is not stacked in ur favor is the best way to describe “make the players around u better”.

Dak Prescott has a winning record in his career without Zeke...including putting up 36 points, 350+ yards, and 4 tds the last time he had to play without Zeke.

Try again.

 

[DFWJC]

Dak Prescott has a winning record in his career without Zeke...including putting up 36 points, 350+ yards, and 4 tds the last time he had to play without Zeke.

Try again.

Dak will be fine and he will have Zeke, so all is good.
But for an honest perspective here......

Dak has played in 8 games without Zeke

• If we are generous and count the two meaningless week 16 games where we were facing practice squad players, our record was 4-4 and Dak had a passer rating of 84.9...or about 27th in the league on average.

• If we count only the 6 meaningful games (exclude the two week 16s) then we are still .500, with a record 3-3. But he has 5 TDs, 7 ints, and an impossibly bad rating of 74.6...which was lower than 37th or any QB starter or backup that played in 2019

That is just the real data. Do with it what you wish. Moot point, as he does have Zeke.

 

[Idgit]

It doesn’t mean anything more than “play effective QB football”. But it’s an easy thing to say and a hard thing to backup, which makes it popular for tv shows who want to tease the Cowboys to get people to watch.

 

[Sevenup3000]

Dak will be fine and he will have Zeke, so all is good.
But for an honest perspective here......

Dak has played in 8 games without Zeke

• If we are generous and count the two meaningless week 16 games where we were facing practice squad players, our record was 4-4 and Dak had a passer rating of 84.9...or about 27th in the league on average.

• If we count only the 6 meaningful games (exclude the two week 16s) then we are still .500, with a record 3-3. But he has 5 TDs, 7 ints, and an impossibly bad rating of 74.6...which was lower than 37th or any QB starter or backup that played in 2019

That is just the real data. Do with it what you wish. Moot point, as he does have Zeke.

Maybe I am wrong but Dak and Zeke started every game in 2016...with the exception of week 17...

But Dak didn't even finish that game and played 1 or 2 series...is that where you are getting the extra game?

2017 - Zeke missed 6 games

2018 - Zeke missed 1 game

Dak's record in those games: 4-3.

And it should be noted that Dak is currently on a 4 game winning streak without Zeke.

And we are evaluating Dak without Zeke...we do not get to selectively choose which games are "meaningful."

With the defense giving up 35 points...Dak down Zeke...much of his OL...and on the road...

Dak put up 36 points, including the game winner, after Dallas' defense completely collapsed in the second half...and I am almost certain that the Giants played their starters for the full game.

Bet your *** if Dak would have put up stats more in line with what you THINK Dak is capable of...or if he threw 4 picks and failed to score...how much you wanna bet you would be up here screaming about Dak cannot get it done without Zeke?

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

With all due respect, I think there is such a thing as "make the players around you better". Please forgive me for not giving you an example of a QB that does that. What that phrase means in my mind most appropriately applies to some of the best basketball stars. For example, Tim Duncan was able to play to the strengths of the players around him. Many of the great basketball players do this. I don't think it's all that applicable to the game of football. QB's can hit their targets all day long but the receivers still have to have the skill to catch the ball.

SO you are boiling football and the WR position down to JUST "catching the ball". And it's ME that's been accused of not understanding football and especially NFL football?

All KINDS of parameters go into "catching the ball". Timing, arc, velocity, field of vision. And THAT is just the QB's part of it. We've seen enough "fastballers" make it impossible for even a really good receiver to catch the ball. Sure WWR can help by running good routes, or good hands, or scrambling where the QB knows they should be. But....if the QB has the shills and adeptness...they certainly CAN make it easier to catch the ball.

Now....here's the thing....good wr's can make the QB look better too. I think Eli manning was the recipient of some dman good receivers. Eli just chucked the ball downfield and the WR's went up and got it.

Funny how Romo's receivers rarely succeeded ANYWHERE else.

I do note how political the answers to this question are. The people that are DAk homers lay it on receivers. The people who are Dak haters lay it on QB's. I've cited BOTH as part of the complete equation.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Where did Williams go after Romo left?

Right out of the league.

And so far down that he couldn't cut it in the XFL.

Romo had that clown looking like a viable #2 receiver, rather than what he actually was, just #2.

Williams didn't go out the league when Romo left

 

[DFWJC]

Maybe I am wrong but Dak and Zeke started every game in 2016...with the exception of week 17...

But Dak didn't even finish that game and played 1 or 2 series...is that where you are getting the extra game?

2017 - Zeke missed 6 games

2018 - Zeke missed 1 game

Dak's record in those games: 4-3.

And it should be noted that Dak is currently on a 4 game winning streak without Zeke.

And we are evaluating Dak without Zeke...we do not get to selectively choose which games are "meaningful."

With the defense giving up 35 points...Dak down Zeke...much of his OL...and on the road...

Dak put up 36 points, including the game winner, after Dallas' defense completely collapsed in the second half...and I am almost certain that the Giants played their starters for the full game.

Bet your *** if Dak would have put up stats more in line with what you THINK Dak is capable of...or if he threw 4 picks and failed to score...how much you wanna bet you would be up here screaming about Dak cannot get it done without Zeke?

Was mainly just pointing out that his QB rating without Zeke is about 85. That's just what it is.
And if you take out that 2018 week 17 Giants games where nobody cared and3rd stringers were playing for the Giants...and Dak racked up those monster stats that you keep mentioning...then his rating is 75.
But even leaving that basically pre-season like game in, it's 85.
This is true whether or not his snaps are included from that week 17 game in 2016.

Look, I'm a Dak fan. Just pointing to the real data regarding him and Zeke.

Anyway, QB's don't have won-loss records...teams do. So even they were 0-7, it wouldn't be all on Dak

 

[DFWJC]

Williams didn't go out the league when Romo left

This.
He played one more year, and it was worse than any he had in Dallas. But not my much.
He was shot.

 

[JoeKing]

SO you are boiling football and the WR position down to JUST "catching the ball". And it's ME that's been accused of not understanding football and especially NFL football?

All KINDS of parameters go into "catching the ball". Timing, arc, velocity, field of vision. And THAT is just the QB's part of it. We've seen enough "fastballers" make it impossible for even a really good receiver to catch the ball. Sure WWR can help by running good routes, or good hands, or scrambling where the QB knows they should be. But....if the QB has the shills and adeptness...they certainly CAN make it easier to catch the ball.

Now....here's the thing....good wr's can make the QB look better too. I think Eli manning was the recipient of some dman good receivers. Eli just chucked the ball downfield and the WR's went up and got it.

Funny how Romo's receivers rarely succeeded ANYWHERE else.

I do note how political the answers to this question are. The people that are DAk homers lay it on receivers. The people who are Dak haters lay it on QB's. I've cited BOTH as part of the complete equation.

Nope, not at all. You're totally blowing out of proportion what I said. You are wasting your time getting your panties in a wad. You don't know me. You haven't even taken the time to get to know me. We are perfect strangers, so you are in no position to go on the rant you just did after only reading a few words by me. Step down from your soapbox. I'm not disputing anything you just said, I have no issue with you. The next time you see someone has a different opinion than yours, how about not blowing-up on them as you just did to me. I welcome a civil discussion. I don't appreciate the mugging you just attempted. We can talk but don't lecture. Your tone matters to me.

 

[plasticman]

I think it means that he brings out the best in other players which can be done in many different ways. For example, a QB might be better at placing his passes in a way in which the receiver has a better chance to run with the ball after he catches it.

It might also mean that opponents must place a greater emphasis on gameplanning him and allocating more resources to stopping him. For example, if you have a D-lineman that constantly requires double teaming then that opens up more opportunity for the other D-linemen which translates to better results for them.

It might also be a matter of competition. When a player excels and receives recognition then his teammates might want to demonstrate that this is not a "one man" team. They are motivated by the perception that they are being carried by this single player. I think this would be particularly true at the squad level. I think in 2018 our two linebackers had a little competition going. they were both performing at a high level by feeding off each other.

It could be his reputation, his past accomplishments and the way in which he conducts himself. His teammates are inspired by the belief that he is the guy they needed to be considered a contender. The classic example, I think, will be the Tampa Bay Buccaneers getting Tom Brady. I definitely think he will make his teammates better.

It could be a forced reaction that has been demanded by the player. The player would have to have almost legendary elite status to be able to make these demands but they do exist. This player forces others to give more than they were willing at first. The classic example here is Raven linebacker Ray Lewis

 

[Irvin88_4life]

This.
He played one more year, and it was worse than any he had in Dallas. But not my much.
He was shot.

He was on the team and played in 2018...... that's Daks 3rd year

 

[Clove]

I don't think players make players better at all. I think coaches make players better and scheme could make players better, but players are already good at what they do, they just need the right mix of scheme, coaching, and talent around them. Steve Kerr could always hit a knock down shot, but he couldn't do it as much when he didn't have Jordan over there sucking up all the attention.

Terrence Williams couldn't do squat when he didn't have Dez Bryant over there sucking up all the attention. Sometimes, players need other players and better scheme to show off what they can do. And by the way, Williams never won anything but regular season games, so I wouldn't necessarily call Williams a great player, he was what most receivers are. If he elevated the team to Super bowls, then I could sing his praises.

If a QB can't throw, your receiver will look pedestrian. When he's changed out for a QB that can throw, he'll look like what he's supposed to look like. But he also needs the right scheme, because if the scheme does not direct the QB to throw it to him, or he's running routes not conducive to his talents, he still won't succeed. Lot's of variables go into the success of a player, and not just saying, this player made this player look good. And this is coming from an ex football player, and not some guy sitting on his couch being a paper coach/owner/gm and scout.

So this players making other players great is a crock. You're either good or you're not. But you have to give players a true chance to prove it.

 

[Clove]

Ok it’s easy yet everyone in here has different answers lol.

Look man, I know what you're trying to do and it's pretty much a waste. I tried doing what you're doing, it doesn't work. People are going to believe what they believe, and I say YOU GO ON IGNORE. I'm not wasting my time with these scrubs man, I have better things in my life to do. CZ has made it so I can post in peace by creating the "ignore" function, and at first I was too macho to use it, now I have close to 300 people on it, including some guys I really liked. And I used to talk very bad about Romo when he played here, and no matter what anyone said to me, it never changed my mind.

People will love Dak "myself included" and people will hate Dak. That's life, that's how it is, and so all we can do is avoid and move right along.

 

[Verdict]

I've heard this used to describe guys like Tom Brady and Russell Wilson. But how exactly do you gauge someone making another player better? Did Joe Montana make Jerry Rice better? Did Troy make Michael Irvin better? I've always had a problem grasping this. Because if I go by the stats...........



In 14 games in 2016 Amari Cooper in 14 games had 48 receptions on 96 attempts for 680 yards while averaging 14.2 yards a catch.......



In 2017 prior to getting to Dallas in 6 games he had 22 catches on 31 targets for 280 yards at 12.7 yards a catch and a touchdown. Safe to say he was going to have a even worse year.



Comes to Dallas and in 9 games has 53 catches on 76 targets at 13.7 yards a catch and 6 Touchdowns.

Season after has 79 catches on 119 targets at 15.1 yards a catch for 8 touchdowns.




On to Randall Cobb.

He's had some injuries recently...miraculously got healthy with Dallas somehow.

Maybe a bit unfair to judge him on his 2018 season with Aaron Rodgers so let's go a year prior to 2017 where he played 15 games.

66 catches on 91 targets for 653 yards on a average of 9.9 yards a catch for 4 touchdowns.

In 2019 with Dallas he had 55 catches for 828 yards on 15.1 yards a catch and 3 touchdowns.....all while being the 3rd best receiver on the team.



Anyone want to help me understand what "makes his receivers better" mean?

The only way to make players better is to have Ray Lewis on your team. He isn’t afraid to kill someone to make a point.

 

[leeblair]

When you lead by example, and you find a way to make plays when everything is going wrong. You won't settle for less than winning, and you won't be popular with the team when you're not winning.
You are more of a coach than a player, demanding that your team does their job right.
But you have to do your job right first.
Troy Aikman was vicious with teammates who slacked, and so was Roger Staubach. But both were always at the controls and knew that they were responsible for making things go right.
A quarterback who is popular with his teammates when the team is struggling isn't going to lead.
A quarterback who the guys complain about- but respect- is actually doing more.
And it's not just quarterbacks. Sometimes it is the most experienced winner on the field.
The guy who hates losing so much he demands the best from himself and that his teammates do the same.