What exactly does "make the players around you better" mean?

[texbumthelife]

When Dak raised up a WR core led by Allen Hurns and carried them. Wait...

 

[Flamma]

I don't know if a QB can make a WR better, but he can certainly bring out the talent that they have. But I think in some cases along the DL it can happen. Too tall Jones said that Harvey Martin used to make him bring his A game in every week.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

When Dak reaches that Payton Manning or Tony Romo level of understanding he can then make the players around him better. Making players around him better is a reference to being a coach on the field. Where he can tell the guys exactly what he wants. So its not about stats is about understanding and teaching. Creating a working relationship with other players that goes above and beyond expectations.

Think of Romo's working relationship with Patrick Crayton versus his working relationship with Terrence Williams. One could say T.Will's skillset was better than Crayton's, but Crayton was the better number two. Crayton listened to his QB and sapped up Romo's knowledge. So a QB can only make a player better if that player is willing to listen and learn. Some are, some aren't.

Communication is the backbone of success.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Where did Williams go after Romo left?

Right out of the league.

And so far down that he couldn't cut it in the XFL.

Romo had that clown looking like a viable #2 receiver, rather than what he actually was, just #2.

Yeah....can't argue against that. I think there was some injury issues there but can't argue against that. He did have some pretty big games without Romo though. Or at least one I know for sure was the Commanders game.

I think Elway's ridiculous talent elevated those teams. Think about it - what elite WR played with Elway? I also think you have to say Brady. Clearly he had Gronk and Moss but it seems that for 20 years whoever played with him just got better. Think about Danny Amendola. Guy played at an All Pro level when he was with Brady.

It depends on what era of Elway you're talking about because later on Elway had Sharpe, Smith and McCaffery and Terrell Davis.

Fair point on Brady. Can't argue against that either making guys like Wes Welker, Edelman and Amendola look like Pro Bowlers.......

 

[JoeKing]

I've heard this used to describe guys like Tom Brady and Russell Wilson. But how exactly do you gauge someone making another player better? Did Joe Montana make Jerry Rice better? Did Troy make Michael Irvin better? I've always had a problem grasping this. Because if I go by the stats...........



In 14 games in 2016 Amari Cooper in 14 games had 48 receptions on 96 attempts for 680 yards while averaging 14.2 yards a catch.......



In 2017 prior to getting to Dallas in 6 games he had 22 catches on 31 targets for 280 yards at 12.7 yards a catch and a touchdown. Safe to say he was going to have a even worse year.



Comes to Dallas and in 9 games has 53 catches on 76 targets at 13.7 yards a catch and 6 Touchdowns.

Season after has 79 catches on 119 targets at 15.1 yards a catch for 8 touchdowns.




On to Randall Cobb.

He's had some injuries recently...miraculously got healthy with Dallas somehow.

Maybe a bit unfair to judge him on his 2018 season with Aaron Rodgers so let's go a year prior to 2017 where he played 15 games.

66 catches on 91 targets for 653 yards on a average of 9.9 yards a catch for 4 touchdowns.

In 2019 with Dallas he had 55 catches for 828 yards on 15.1 yards a catch and 3 touchdowns.....all while being the 3rd best receiver on the team.



Anyone want to help me understand what "makes his receivers better" mean?

With all due respect, I think there is such a thing as "make the players around you better". Please forgive me for not giving you an example of a QB that does that. What that phrase means in my mind most appropriately applies to some of the best basketball stars. For example, Tim Duncan was able to play to the strengths of the players around him. Many of the great basketball players do this. I don't think it's all that applicable to the game of football. QB's can hit their targets all day long but the receivers still have to have the skill to catch the ball.

 

[Whyjerry]

Yeah....can't argue against that. I think there was some injury issues there but can't argue against that. He did have some pretty big games without Romo though. Or at least one I know for sure was the Commanders game.


It depends on what error of Elway you're talking about because later on Elway had Sharpe, Smith and McCaffery and Terrell Davis.

Fair point on Brady. Can't argue against that either making guys like Wes Welker, Edelman and Amendola look like Pro Bowlers.......

Elway had 2 losing seasons over a long career. Lots of playoff appearances. He carried Denver for about decade before they finally built a good team around him and got a couple SBs.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Elway had 2 losing seasons over a long career. Lots of playoff appearances. He carried Denver for about decade before they finally built a good team around him and got a couple SBs.

Can't argue against him I just remember him later in his career and those teams had some players on them. Those are actually his best statistical seasons as well.

With all due respect, I think there is such a thing as "make the players around you better". Please forgive me for not giving you an example of a QB that does that. What that phrase means in my mind most appropriately applies to some of the best basketball stars. For example, Tim Duncan was able to play to the strengths of the players around him. Many of the great basketball players do this. I don't think it's all that applicable to the game of football. QB's can hit their targets all day long but the receivers still have to have the skill to catch the ball.

I don't disagree. Its much easier for me to see it in basketball. A lot harder for me to see it in the NFL especially at quarterback. I've seen wide receivers actually make quarterbacks better.

 

[Nav22]

It’s a meaningless phrase people use when they want to discredit a player.

Dak’s top 3 WRs all balled out last year, but Dak “didn’t make them better.” Somehow. Don’t ask for proof, just take my word for it.

 

[Swagger]

It's easy to spin stats the way people want the narrative to be driven.

E.g. wide receivers have different coaches, different schemes, different roles etc at different teams. I just don't see how their stats can be compared unless there's a huge difference in their numbers when healthy all of the time, not playing whilst nursing injuries and acting as a decoy etc. Does the offense have a non existent running game or one of the best in the league? If the latter then the knock on effect is defenses selling out to stop the run presenting countless opportunities in the passing game = inflated stats for wide receivers.

Another basketball analogy is LeBron lifts his team as well. Look at the state of the Cavs without him compared with all of the years he played for them during two stints.

The eyes don't lie. You see it and you know when a player makes those around him better.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

Some of you guys maybe overlooking make better part. You don't have to make good players better. So it's not the Jerry Rice's we're taking about its the Danny Amendola's and Patrick Crayton's that need a little help. You know those level C wide receivers.

They needed to see the same thing the QB is seeing so they can be on the same page. And how do you know what the QB is seeing if they don't pick his brain. So the QB is elevating their play because he's telling them what he sees and what he needs from them. So we are talking about some after practice workouts and extra film sessions type stuff.

 

[America's Cowboy]

I've heard this used to describe guys like Tom Brady and Russell Wilson. But how exactly do you gauge someone making another player better? Did Joe Montana make Jerry Rice better? Did Troy make Michael Irvin better? I've always had a problem grasping this. Because if I go by the stats...........



In 14 games in 2016 Amari Cooper in 14 games had 48 receptions on 96 attempts for 680 yards while averaging 14.2 yards a catch.......



In 2017 prior to getting to Dallas in 6 games he had 22 catches on 31 targets for 280 yards at 12.7 yards a catch and a touchdown. Safe to say he was going to have a even worse year.



Comes to Dallas and in 9 games has 53 catches on 76 targets at 13.7 yards a catch and 6 Touchdowns.

Season after has 79 catches on 119 targets at 15.1 yards a catch for 8 touchdowns.




On to Randall Cobb.

He's had some injuries recently...miraculously got healthy with Dallas somehow.

Maybe a bit unfair to judge him on his 2018 season with Aaron Rodgers so let's go a year prior to 2017 where he played 15 games.

66 catches on 91 targets for 653 yards on a average of 9.9 yards a catch for 4 touchdowns.

In 2019 with Dallas he had 55 catches for 828 yards on 15.1 yards a catch and 3 touchdowns.....all while being the 3rd best receiver on the team.



Anyone want to help me understand what "makes his receivers better" mean?

Clearly, DAK MADE AMARI & COBB BETTER..., not the other way around. Your factual stats pretty much destroys the Dak haters' agenda/false accusations!

 

[Vtwin]

In order to have to ask this question one must fit any or all of the following criteria.

Never played a team sport.

Has very little experience even watching a team sport.

Is grasping at straws trying to push/discredit a particular agenda.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Can you get to championship game or a super bowl with the likes of Reche Caldwell and Deion Branch as your receivers? What can you get out of a guy like Laurent Robinson?

Dak had the opportunity to succeed with guys like Allan Hurns and Deonte Thompson, and it didn’t work out. Not saying it won’t ever work out, it just didn’t in that instance.

It’s a fair point during contract negotiations. Dak has shown he can be as efficient as anyone in the league provided he has good talent. Based on available evidence, there’s no point in paying him such that you can’t put good pieces around him.

 

[Redball Express]

I've heard this used to describe guys like Tom Brady and Russell Wilson. But how exactly do you gauge someone making another player better? Did Joe Montana make Jerry Rice better? Did Troy make Michael Irvin better? I've always had a problem grasping this. Because if I go by the stats...........



In 14 games in 2016 Amari Cooper in 14 games had 48 receptions on 96 attempts for 680 yards while averaging 14.2 yards a catch.......



In 2017 prior to getting to Dallas in 6 games he had 22 catches on 31 targets for 280 yards at 12.7 yards a catch and a touchdown. Safe to say he was going to have a even worse year.



Comes to Dallas and in 9 games has 53 catches on 76 targets at 13.7 yards a catch and 6 Touchdowns.

Season after has 79 catches on 119 targets at 15.1 yards a catch for 8 touchdowns.




On to Randall Cobb.

He's had some injuries recently...miraculously got healthy with Dallas somehow.

Maybe a bit unfair to judge him on his 2018 season with Aaron Rodgers so let's go a year prior to 2017 where he played 15 games.

66 catches on 91 targets for 653 yards on a average of 9.9 yards a catch for 4 touchdowns.

In 2019 with Dallas he had 55 catches for 828 yards on 15.1 yards a catch and 3 touchdowns.....all while being the 3rd best receiver on the team.



Anyone want to help me understand what "makes his receivers better" mean?

Cliches..

Got to love them.

Its intangible.

It's in the eye of the beholder.

In a QBs case..

I take it to mean he does things better than others. Like the concept of "throwing receivers open"..

another phrase that saying someone does it elevates them from the crowd.

You like stats..that is "quantitative".

I like "qualitative".

Making receivers better is qualitative in that it implies the sum of the parts is larger than just the individual pieces..

those being the playcalling, execution, players involved, etc. Everything together makes it all work better.

It's a very existential concept applied to a simple proposition.

A+B=D

That is what I extract from your question.

Examples of players who possessed this was Staubach, Aikman, Montana and a few others..

Bradshaw, Unitus, Bart Starr.

The great ones elevated those around them.

Clear as mud still?

.

 

[Tangle_Foot]

I've never been a fan of that statement, players skill-set don't change. It's much easier in a sport like basketball where players tend to cheat away from their responsibilities to help on a dominant player, allowing that player of same skill set to cash in.

A mobile quarterback doesn't make a offensive line better they're not holding their blocks any longer. Could we say that a quarterback that holds the ball too long makes the players around him worse.

Where I really think this applies without question is in leadership, a good leader can have you dig down within yourself and make you bring up an effort you never thought you had in you.

In most cases the players are same as they ever was

 

[sean10mm]

A lot of the examples of a QB "elevating those around him" is just a function of "those around him" not being hyped by the media, who aren't especially great talent evaluators.

 

[Creeper]

Troy Aikman made Alvin Harper and Kevin Williams better, along with a few other players.

 

[Shane612]

It means one player is so good, that he has enough talent to make up for the other players on the team who aren't as talented.
i.e. a great RB can make up for a bad OL....or vise versa.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

Basically for a QB it means, he doesn't require a stud OL, a stud RB, HOF TE, Top notch WRs, just to function as a decent QB. We have all seen how Dak plays when the OL is not dominant, or the running game is off or if he has just average WR. It's not pretty. It's telling that in all the years in GB, with Farve and Rodgers, he never felt the need to draft a WR in the 1st, yet it was the first thing he drafted with Dak, even though we just signed another 1st round to a long term deal. Dak needs very talented players around him to function. He is the opposite of making players better.

 

[HellCrowe]

Basically for a QB it means, he doesn't require a stud OL, a stud RB, HOF TE, Top notch WRs, just to function as a decent QB. We have all seen how Dak plays when the OL is not dominant, or the running game is off or if he has just average WR. It's not pretty. It's telling that in all the years in GB, with Farve and Rodgers, he never felt the need to draft a WR in the 1st, yet it was the first thing he drafted with Dak, even though we just signed another 1st round to a long term deal. Dak needs very talented players around him to function. He is the opposite of making players better.

This is so true. Everyone (love them/hate them) talks about how well we draft, how we put so much emphasis on the OL, how we are always at the top at sending players to the Pro-Bowl. We should be excited about that but we get 8-8.