Prescott or Dalton: Who do you want starting

Who do you want starting

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kskboys

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Denim Chicken said:
How are you gaining Defense? I would like this explained to me because people keep saying it.

Who are you signing that you cant sign with DAK?
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Those 3-4 players that put you over the top. This is actually very obvious w/ a simple analysis, but denying is definitely easier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
CowboyoWales

CowboyoWales

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Denim Chicken said:
How are you gaining Defense? I would like this explained to me because people keep saying it.

Who are you signing that you cant sign with DAK?
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Franchise him for this season and then release him the following year.

Or Franchise him for another year IF we're successful.
 
Denim Chicken

Denim Chicken

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kskboys said:
Those 3-4 players that put you over the top. This is actually very obvious w/ a simple analysis, but denying is definitely easier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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You mean on one year deals this year? Who are you going to get right now on a one year deal?

Dalton is only signed for one year & he's not going to be 3M next year.

So tell me. What are you doing that that you cant do with DAK?
 

kskboys

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CowboysFaninHouston said:
how many teams have gone and won a superbowl with that formula?
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BALT, NYG, DEN(PM was way below average at that point), SEA, KC. Great teams w/ cheap QB's.

And the next experiment comes when they have to pay Mahomes. The only QB consistently in the running for super bowls is Brady, and he consistently does not beg for maxed out contracts.

Brees was cheap when NO won.
 
Jake

Jake

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TheSkaven said:
Look, I’d like to see Dak under McCarthy for a year under the franchise tag and postpone this decision to next season. But if you immediately disregard Dalton as being in the same league then you’re just not being objective.

Forget the stats, that’s apples to oranges. This is apples to apples (let’s just look at 2019):

Running backs
Dak had Zeke Elliott
Dalton had Joe Mixon

Wide Receivers
Dak had Cooper, Cobb and Gallup
Dalton had Boyd, Erickson (who?) and Tate
(Not the Tate of the Golden variety)

Tight Ends
Dak had Witten and Jarwin
Dalton had Uzomah and Eifert (for 4 games)

Offensive Line
Dak: T.Smith, Martin, Frederick, C.Will, Collins
Dalton; A crap show of different bodies subbed in throughout the season.

If you’re going to take the time to post here, take the time to educate yourself: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sp...e-line-bad-drafts-luck-blame-woes/3846113002/

I’ll give you the cliff notes, the first paragraph:

“Andy Dalton was bull-rushed. He was speed rushed. He was chased. He was hurried. And he was hit again and again.”

To the crowd who is dogging Dalton over his completion percentage: how do you think Dak would have done in Cincy under those circumstances?

When he essentially had the same team that he has now but without Cooper: 128 of 206 (62.1% passing) and a 3-4 record.

Now take Cooper, Cobb and Gallup away and give him Boyd and two guys off the street and let him run for his life behind that offensive line.

THAT, is apples to apples.
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Looking at 2019 is very convenient if you're looking for ways to elevate Dalton. How about those glorious first five years where he carried the lowly Bengals to the playoffs, at least that's how it has been portrayed here.

But is that really how it happened? You seem to be a proponent of education, so let's take a look.

Year one: Dalton = 58% completions, 20 TDs, 13 INTs; Bengals 9th in team defense
Year two: Dalton = 62% completions, 27 TDs, 16 INTs; Bengals 8th in team defense
Year three: Dalton = 62% completions, 33 TDs, 20 INTs; Bengals 5th in team defense
Year four: Dalton = 64% completions, 19 TDs, 17 INTs; Bengals 12th in team defense
Year five: Dalton = 65% completions, 25 TDs, 7 INTs; Bengals 2nd in team defense

Dalton had a top 10 defense 4 of those 5 years, 12th in the other, and couldn't win a playoff game.
He averaged fewer than 25 TD passes and more than 14 INTs in those 5 years.
Once that defense became less formidable Dalton and the Bengals swirled down the drain.
 
starman22

starman22

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Trueboysfan said:
Easy...make it an open competition. Because honestly I want the best player to start.
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All it takes for an open competition is to pay Dak the franchise amount of 32 million, and then guess what, there is no competition.
 
CowboyoWales

CowboyoWales

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Denim Chicken said:
Who, DAK?
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Yep Dak.

Whilst I prefer Dak to Dalton and think him a good player I think we may be better suited using resources in areas of weakness.

Fans make reference and comparison to Romo (I don't, it was natural succession, the king is dead long live the king), but Romo at least worked with the team, didn't he restructure his contracts into bonus payments to assist lowering the cap figure?

Why not Franchise Dak twice, it's cheaper than giving him 2 years at $35m per.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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kskboys said:
BALT, NYG, DEN(PM was way below average at that point), SEA, KC. Great teams w/ cheap QB's.

And the next experiment comes when they have to pay Mahomes. The only QB consistently in the running for super bowls is Brady, and he consistently does not beg for maxed out contracts.

Brees was cheap when NO won.
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SMH......the argument is not about being cheap, it was about having average QBs and that average QBs can win....but history says its harder to win without a QB than it is with one........its about do you need a top QB to win or can you do with average QBs...of all those teams, only Baltimore had average QBs and both times they had awesome defense, the first time around, perhaps the best defense in NFL history....they paid their money elsewhere....

Denver had an awesome defense, with Ware and Miller and great DTs and secondary. they paid miller, ware, etc.....they had Peyton manning, although not as physically gifted, one of the smartest QBs to ever play the game. and they had Demarius Thomas...that's about it. they did it with defense.....and they paid their defensive players....

Seattle, again another team with a great defense, fantastic secondary and they had Wilson! Wilson was on rookie contract, but we know Wilson is a great QB...not average

KC has Mahomes...he may be cheap, but he is not average, no where close....


the point of all of this is that you need a QB to win or can you do it with average QB....now you are arguing prices.. which is a different argument....

do we have the defense like these other teams, that is so dominant that can give us a chance in games? somehow I don't see that kind of defense with what we have currently. furthermore, people argue against paying Lawrence, Smith, or other high priced Defensive players, so how else are we supposed to build a great defense...

your chances of making it to the superbowl are much higher, statistically speaking if you have a great QB, KC, Seattle, NO, Patriots, Atlanta all had great QB play, going back further, with Steelers, GB, Giants, Indy, all had great QB play....

again, not arguing price or cost...but just player make of a team....its much easier to do it with a top QB

now, if you want to argue if Dak is that type of QB, then there is about 17237 threads on that already......
 
cowboyec

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Dak.

wish all my tests back in school were as easy as this'n here.
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Jake said:
Looking at 2019 is very convenient if you're looking for ways to elevate Dalton. How about those glorious first five years where he carried the lowly Bengals to the playoffs, at least that's how it has been portrayed here.

But is that really how it happened? You seem to be a proponent of education, so let's take a look.

Year one: Dalton = 58% completions, 20 TDs, 13 INTs; Bengals 9th in team defense
Year two: Dalton = 62% completions, 27 TDs, 16 INTs; Bengals 8th in team defense
Year three: Dalton = 62% completions, 33 TDs, 20 INTs; Bengals 5th in team defense
Year four: Dalton = 64% completions, 19 TDs, 17 INTs; Bengals 12th in team defense
Year five: Dalton = 65% completions, 25 TDs, 7 INTs; Bengals 2nd in team defense

Dalton had a top 10 defense 4 of those 5 years, 12th in the other, and couldn't win a playoff game.
He averaged fewer than 25 TD passes and more than 14 INTs in those 5 years.
Once that defense became less formidable Dalton and the Bengals swirled down the drain.
Click to expand...
he also had AJ green as a WR and a pretty dang good OL.....

he had trouble leading the offense to 10 points in several of those playoff games...horrible horrible horrible performances in the playoffs.... he folds in the big moment....that much is obvious
 

kskboys

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CowboysFaninHouston said:
SMH......the argument is not about being cheap, it was about having average QBs and that average QBs can win....but history says its harder to win without a QB than it is with one........its about do you need a top QB to win or can you do with average QBs...of all those teams, only Baltimore had average QBs and both times they had awesome defense, the first time around, perhaps the best defense in NFL history....they paid their money elsewhere....

Denver had an awesome defense, with Ware and Miller and great DTs and secondary. they paid miller, ware, etc.....they had Peyton manning, although not as physically gifted, one of the smartest QBs to ever play the game. and they had Demarius Thomas...that's about it. they did it with defense.....and they paid their defensive players....

Seattle, again another team with a great defense, fantastic secondary and they had Wilson! Wilson was on rookie contract, but we know Wilson is a great QB...not average

KC has Mahomes...he may be cheap, but he is not average, no where close....


the point of all of this is that you need a QB to win or can you do it with average QB....now you are arguing prices.. which is a different argument....

do we have the defense like these other teams, that is so dominant that can give us a chance in games? somehow I don't see that kind of defense with what we have currently. furthermore, people argue against paying Lawrence, Smith, or other high priced Defensive players, so how else are we supposed to build a great defense...

your chances of making it to the superbowl are much higher, statistically speaking if you have a great QB, KC, Seattle, NO, Patriots, Atlanta all had great QB play, going back further, with Steelers, GB, Giants, Indy, all had great QB play....

again, not arguing price or cost...but just player make of a team....its much easier to do it with a top QB

now, if you want to argue if Dak is that type of QB, then there is about 17237 threads on that already......
Click to expand...
No, that's not what the argument is about. It's about overpaying players, in this case overpaying the QB.

Incorrect. Mahomes won the super bowl due to D. As did Payton, Eli, Rodgers, Steelers, Patriots, NO, SEA. All of them.

It's like, you have these facts in front of your face, but you choose to ignore them. Or maybe you just can't hear them due to all the fooforawing you're doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Price is at the forefront of this argument. If Dak was playing for around 30 mil, I'd be all for him. I like him as a Qb, and consider him good enough. Unless we have to overpay him, then there's a good chance he's not.
 
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