Twitter: PFF: Most forced missed tackles

QuincyCarterEra

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John813 said:
How does the bold negatively impact his pass catching abilites?
He doesn't get to run his own routes. Usually he was usually the safety valve in the offense. Therefore, his yards per route run is going to be low. And, as a safety valve, it's not a huge yardage play.

How does missing tackles hurt his pass catching ability?

Only negative that sticks to him is the drops, which out of 4 years is the outlier. He's never had an issue with that before. Even in 2018 when he had even more targets and receptions.

And, drops largely depend on the source and are far from official stats. Foxsports for example has him with 4 drops last year. And 2 in 2018.

RB's with more drops include:
Tarik Cohen with 9
Todd Gurley with 7
Dalvin Cook with 7
Leonard Fournette with 6
Phillip Lindsay with 6
Alvin Kamara with 5
Chase Edmunds with 5
Jaylen Samuels with 5
Melvin Gordon with 4
etc...

Source: https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats...&opp=0&sort=10&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=1
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You don't think that efficiency, big play ability, and making players miss in space negatively effects a player's receiving ability? That's your claim?
 
John813

John813

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QuincyCarterEra said:
You don't think that efficiency, big play ability, and making players miss in space negatively effects a player's receiving ability? That's your claim?
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Zeke isn't an explosive player. He is no longer a shifty, jump over you type of back. At least for the past two years.
However, it hasn't hurt him in the passing game. Becoming a regular target for Dak over the past two years. He's received over 166 targets the past two years. Why would he receive that many targets if he was below average pass catcher? Is Dak dumb???????
Or, is he a good safety valve receiver?

Guess we can scratch off the claim of him leading the league in RB drops though.

It would be like looking at the career of Jason Witten and calling him below average cause he wasn't as athletic as Gronk, or explosive as Kelce or that his YPCatch wasn't as high as others. Yet, he was a great receiver for Romo and Dak, who ran great routes(Y option) and was usually a sure handed TE.
 
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Manwiththeplan said:
Emmitt Smith, Julius Jones, Marion Barber III, DeMarco Murray, Darren McFadden and Ezekiel Elliott all have gained 1200 yards from scrimmage or more in the last 20 years. Very rarely have we not had at least a solid RB
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Not consistently. And that's just one statistic. I'm not interested in defending Elliott vs. other RBs. You have to go back to Smith to find an elite RB. The others you rattled off were not, even if you think they were. You literally had to include passing yards to justify guys like Barber were in the same conversation.

I wouldn't have drafted a RB that early in the first place, but that doesn't change Elliott being a top RB.
 
chagus

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Creeper said:
Zeke is an exceptional RB, but he is not what he was in 2016. There could be reasons for this but at the end of the day it boils down to how much they pay him vs what he produces on the field. I do not see him as a guy like Emmitt who had a lot of great traits. I think it all depends on how long Zeke's career lasts.
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Im curious about the "reasons", as in his playing weight. Perhaps he's played heavier than his rookie year? Couldn't find the stats.
 
Future

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This is stupid, because PFF's subjective grading of this wouldn't account for things like...vision. Zeke will never be high on this list - like Emmitt wouldn't have been - because he makes his move subtlely long before the defender is there.
 
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chagus said:
Im curious about the "reasons", as in his playing weight. Perhaps he's played heavier than his rookie year? Couldn't find the stats.
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I can't remember where I heard/read it, but someone was saying that his lower body didn't look as stacked like his 1st couple of years. I don't know how true that is.
 
Manwiththeplan

Manwiththeplan

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Streetwise said:
Not consistently. And that's just one statistic. I'm not interested in defending Elliott vs. other RBs. You have to go back to Smith to find an elite RB. The others you rattled off were not, even if you think they were. You literally had to include passing yards to justify guys like Barber were in the same conversation.

I wouldn't have drafted a RB that early in the first place, but that doesn't change Elliott being a top RB.
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I'm not arguing elite, I'm arguing solid which is what you used. 1200 yards from scrimmage is solid in every sense of the word
 
Ebnorice

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Manwiththeplan said:
Emmitt Smith, Julius Jones, Marion Barber III, DeMarco Murray, Darren McFadden and Ezekiel Elliott all have gained 1200 yards from scrimmage or more in the last 20 years. Very rarely have we not had at least a solid RB
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Barber never even broke 1000 rushing Jones barley broke 1000 rushing once.
 

QuincyCarterEra

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John813 said:
Zeke isn't an explosive player. He is no longer a shifty, jump over you type of back. At least for the past two years.
However, it hasn't hurt him in the passing game. Becoming a regular target for Dak over the past two years. He's received over 166 targets the past two years. Why would he receive that many targets if he was below average pass catcher? Is Dak dumb???????
Or, is he a good safety valve receiver?

Guess we can scratch off the claim of him leading the league in RB drops though.

It would be like looking at the career of Jason Witten and calling him below average cause he wasn't as athletic as Gronk, or explosive as Kelce or that his YPCatch wasn't as high as others. Yet, he was a great receiver for Romo and Dak, who ran great routes(Y option) and was usually a sure handed TE.
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He's had those targets because he's been on the field. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you think Zeke only had 4 drops, then that's on you.


No it's not like that comparison at all, it's comparing him to AVERAGE RBs. Not the elite of the elite. He was bottom 25% of ALL RBs.
 
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Hennessy_King

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QuincyCarterEra said:
He's had those targets because he's been on the field. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you think Zeke only had 6 drops, then that's on you.


No it's not like that comparison at all, it's comparing him to AVERAGE RBs. Not the elite of the elite. He was bottom 25% of ALL RBs.
Click to expand...

But he dropped those because dak didn't stick the ball into his facemask so he didn't have to use his hands.
 
JD_KaPow

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John813 said:
Zeke isn't an explosive player. He is no longer a shifty, jump over you type of back. At least for the past two years.
However, it hasn't hurt him in the passing game. Becoming a regular target for Dak over the past two years. He's received over 166 targets the past two years. Why would he receive that many targets if he was below average pass catcher? Is Dak dumb???????
Or, is he a good safety valve receiver?
Click to expand...
He's the safety valve receiver by default, because he's the RB on the field. That by itself doesn't mean he's good at it.

Let me turn around your question: "Why would he do so little with all those targets if he was an above average pass catcher?" And no, Dak isn't dumb. When you need to dump it off to your safety valve, that's what you do. It's better than taking a sack or throwing it away, even if your safety valve doesn't do much with it.

John813 said:
It would be like looking at the career of Jason Witten and calling him below average cause he wasn't as athletic as Gronk, or explosive as Kelce or that his YPCatch wasn't as high as others.
Click to expand...
It's the exact opposite of what you claim. We look at Zeke's performance as a receiver and say, meh, he's not been very good compared to all the other RBs. We look at Witten's performance and say, wow, he was very good compared to all the other TEs.

It's possible there's a stud receiver hiding inside Zeke that's been stifled by the playcalling. But until I see it actually show up in performance, I don't believe it. Which is okay. He doesn't need to be a very good receiver to be valuable. I just don't get why so many people are so invested in him being one despite all evidence.
 
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Manwiththeplan said:
I'm not arguing elite, I'm arguing solid which is what you used. 1200 yards from scrimmage is solid in every sense of the word
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Not really. I mean Barber didn't even reach 1,000 yards rushing and that's pretty common among RBs. Not even close to Elliott. And when you conveniently add passing yards Elliott is even further out of reach.
 
Manwiththeplan

Manwiththeplan

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Streetwise said:
Not really. I mean Barber didn't even reach 1,000 yards rushing and that's pretty common among RBs. Not even close to Elliott. And when you conveniently add passing yards Elliott is even further out of reach.
Click to expand...

So just so we are clear, 975 yards rushing with 10 rushing TDs and 282 yards receiving with 2 receiving TDs isn't solid?
 
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