Ezekiel Elliott contract isn't bad at all

[waldoputty]

I think you undersell Zeke by quite a lot but that's OK.
This OL has been woefully overrated and people pretend Travis was Travis the last 2 years and Connor Williams was great and Tyron has been healthy for 4 straight years....

End of day the game boils down to making your QB successful. You use the rest of the roster to do so.
That RB position is an important factor in doing so as we saw all last year and especially in the playoffs.
If you don't wanna go that route you are perfectly right to go draft the best QB of a generation and surround him with elite WRs.
That method will also work quite well. lol.

Zeke as a rookie was the best player on the Dallas Cowboys and one of the 10 best players in football.
He has not been quite as good since and last year after the holdout he was merely the 5th best back in football.
Going into next year I don't know if he returns to a top 2/3 RB or if he retreats. RB are tough to judge year to year given varying circumstances.

Zeke was only a 6M cap hit last year and he gave them the 5th most yards at the position. That's perfectly fine value.
This year he is at 10M and 5th best would be a little disappointing at that price. But 2/3 would be perfectly in line; especially if he had a strong playoff run.

No one in Tennessee would have complained of paying Henry 10M LAST YEAR.
Same with Carolina and CMC.
But they got their money AFTER those years much like Zeke got his well after 2016.

what he did in his rookie years does not help us now.

zeke's contract cannot be looked at in a vacuum due to the way it commits future years if he is not cut much earlier.
it is not just 10m/yr, but that you may be getting a used up rb in 2021 at a high cap # because he is not cut early enough this season.

fo got bent over for no reason, and they will likely get a top 10 rb for a top 2 rb cap hit next 2 season.
they should not have renegotiated and dare him to lose money holding out.

 

[jterrell]

what he did before does not matter.
it is what he can do now.
4 rbs seem to be clearly better - henry, macaffrey, cook and barkley.
he is in the 2nd half of the top rbs like chubb
even aaron jones and josh jacobs had a better y/a
with a good pair of wrs and a healthy dak last year, he really has no excuse other than garrett.
rbs get run down with mileage, especially the way he runs

None of those players have topped Zeke more than 1 time ever.
You are reading a crystal ball here and thus why it is hard to take you seriously with any of this.

Barkley is an amazing back outside the tackles but struggles with basic interior runs. We've watched Dallas dominate him and the Giants to see him get 70 yard run down 21 that looks great on sports center but mattered zero in game. SB might be better but that team has been so bad . SB was 16th last year in rushing yards. 10th in RYPG.
CMC is special but his size has meant a slow go in terms of rushes and overall usage. 1 season has he been better than Zeke.
Cook has been injured and inconsistent missing 14 game sin 3 seasons. He's never touched Zeke in rushing yards.
Henry has 1 season where he outperformed Zeke ans has only been a starter 2 of his 4 NFL seasons.

 

[LatinMind]

In my view, Zeke's contract is actually pretty good for the team.

Elliot has a 10.9 million cap hit this year, which he is obviously worth. I think that cap hit is about the same as his 5th year option would have been..

In 2021, #21 has a cap hit of 13.7 million. Granted that is high, but if his play only slightly declines, Zeke will still be worth it.

In 2022, if Zeke's becomes innefective or isn't a RB opposing defenses fear anymore, (or if Pollard becomes the RB1 or we find a diamond in the rough in the 2021 draft) he can be designated as a post-June 1st cut. Doing so, would result in a 4.1 million dead money hit but create 12.4 million in cap savings.

So basically, we have Zeke on the team this year and in 2021. I hope he can reverse the trend of RBs having a short shelf life in recent years, but it is good to know that the front office can release him after the 2021 season he can be released if needed.

(Sorry if this topic seems distasteful given the recent news on Zeke, but just wanted to look at his contract again since it's been almost a year since his deal was done.)

#21

Been saying this since the contract details came out.

 

[waldoputty]

None of those players have topped Zeke more than 1 time ever.
You are reading a crystal ball here and thus why it is hard to take you seriously with any of this.

Barkley is an amazing back outside the tackles but struggles with basic interior runs. We've watched Dallas dominate him and the Giants to see him get 70 yard run down 21 that looks great on sports center but mattered zero in game. SB might be better but that team has been so bad . SB was 16th last year in rushing yards. 10th in RYPG.
CMC is special but his size has meant a slow go in terms of rushes and overall usage. 1 season has he been better than Zeke.
Cook has been injured and inconsistent missing 14 game sin 3 seasons. He's never touched Zeke in rushing yards.
Henry has 1 season where he outperformed Zeke ans has only been a starter 2 of his 4 NFL seasons.

it is not what these players have done in the past.
it is what they will likely offer next 2 years.
i would take any of those 4 over zeke going forward.
of these rbs, barkley probably had the worst situation.
i would take barkley over zeke without a second thought.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

1 Baltimore Ravens (North winner) San Francisco 49ers (West winner)
2 Kansas City Chiefs (West winner) Green Bay Packers (North winner)
3 New England Patriots (East winner) New Orleans Saints (South winner)
4 Houston Texans (South winner) Philadelphia Eagles (East winner)
5 Buffalo Bills (wild card) Seattle Seahawks (wild card)
6 Tennessee Titans (wild card) Minnesota Vikings (wild card)

Rank in RB spending. 1 being most.

BAL: 18th at 4.5M
SF: 10th at 6.7M
KC: 17th at 5.2M
GB: 29th at 2.1M
Pats: 1st at 12.3M
NO: 22nd at 3.6M
HOU: 16th at 5.4M
PHI: 23rd at 3.4M
BUF: 19th at 4.5M
SEA: 32nd at 630K
TENN: 11th at 6.5M
MINN: 21st at 3.7M

Imagine putting this list together...realizing that Zeke alone's upcoming cap hit is nearly $11MM and concluding that we are applying resources correctly. I couldn't imagine it.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Been saying this since the contract details came out.

The contract details were very very bad though....

 

[jterrell]

what he did in his rookie years does not help us now.

zeke's contract cannot be looked at in a vacuum due to the way it commits future years if he is not cut much earlier.
it is not just 10m/yr, but that you may be getting a used up rb in 2021 at a high cap # because he is not cut early enough this season.

fo got bent over for no reason, and they will likely get a top 10 rb for a top 2 rb cap hit next 2 season.
they should not have renegotiated and dare him to lose money holding out.

You pay players based on past performance as well as predicted future performance.
It is the way it works.

Dallas could have signed Zeke 2 months earlier lsat year and saved some drama and had a more ready to go RB in 2019.
A slightly better Zeke and perhaps they go to and win a playoff game. We both speculate on facts not in evidence.

He only made 6M LAST YEAR so his salary was hardly a factor in them not being good enough.
Sucking at safety and TE combined with the QB getting hurt dragged them down.

What they do this year doesn't really matter for Zeke 2021. Because again they can simply flip his salary which would have long since been GTD by paying it now to lower his cap hit significantly in year 3.
All the 5th day GTD stuff does is make them decide early on each year and prevent a post June 1st cut in 2021/22.
Every name player coming through Dallas has left with some dead money. The team has a pool of money for this and carries over plenty of money yearly.
Cutting Zeke isn't onerous after 2021 and until then you could lower his cap hit at any time or yearly if you desired.
He basically makes Jaylon Smith money and isn't enough to truly matter.

Any position on the field you are actually better off signing a guy earlier rather than later because costs go up yearly at every position.
CMC just got paid more than Zeke for outproducing him 1 time. DH will do the same. Then Barkley.

Zeke is basically playing on his 10M tender this year. And he basically made his 6M in 2019.
Dallas isn't really out any new money in cap costs AT ALL.
Dallas can cut him in 2022 and get either 6M or 11M BACK in cap space if they so desire.
All his new contract really GTD him was 13M in 2021.
That's it, that's all.
Anything else he has to earn.

 

[jterrell]

The contract details were very very bad though....

if you do not understand contracts at all this is very true.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

if you do not understand contracts at all this is very true.

His contract details showed us his early trigger roster bonuses boosting his his guaranteed money
Please tell me the details you're referring to that were so team friendly
This should be good.

 

[jterrell]

Imagine putting this list together...realizing that Zeke alone's upcoming cap hit is nearly $11MM and concluding that we are applying resources correctly. I couldn't imagine it.

Imagine believing a scheduled base pay has to equate a future cap hit ....
Or that you should never pay a RB over minimum.
I'm trying to make you less lost and you are fighting it kicking and screaming like a toddler being forced to take Tylenol.

There is this whole area of common sense where things are correct then goofiness like paying Zeke 20m a year in cap hit is fine or we should never pay above minimum for a RB.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

His contract details showed us his early trigger roster bonuses boosting his his guaranteed money
Please tell me the details you're referring to that were so team friendly
This should be good.

I for one am not shocked at all that it's been 40 mins and JTerrell hasn't been able to reply. It's like he doesn't understand contracts at all. Like we thought.

 

[jterrell]

His contract details showed us his early trigger roster bonuses boosting his his guaranteed money
Please tell me the details you're referring to that were so team friendly
This should be good.

Be glad to.

His first two years of the deal were cap neutral for Dallas.
So to make that plain he made the same money in 2019 and 2020 he would have had he not signed a long-term extension.
Following along so far? He basically got future money guaranteed and some upfront cash but it cost DAL zero on the cap sheet.

In 2020 his money for 2021 becomes GTD by the 5th day of league year. So who cares?
They weren't cutting him. Perhaps he eats his whole 10.9M cap hit. They could flip that down but may not bother given they are likely to be shock full of cap cash after extending Dak.

In 2021 he is scheduled to earn 13M. They can simply hand him ~8.5M of his base day 3 or 4 of league year.
Now his cap hit is 6.xM again for 2021. ----OR they cut him. He gets his 9.6M salary but that's all. They'd have to eat an additional 10M in cap hits but if he falls off the face of the earth unexpectedly this is worst case scenario. And they'd be clear of ALL money owed him.-----

Now he is GTD for 2022 at 12.4M but no future money at all.
They could flip his money again, 11M this time and his cap hit becomes 8.xM --again or repeat cut process with similar cap penalties.

In fact these are "built-in" salary flips because the extension was so long.
They do not have to ask for nor BUY extra years to spread out the cap hits.
Just hand his check over day 1 and lower cap hit.

So if you are following a long at home Cowboys have Zeke until he is 28 years old.(29/30 is considered the cliff) You have paid him now a max cap hit of 11M and only once have you topped 10M for his cap hit.
You can release him June of 2022 and get back cash.

Total actual money earned would be ~50M of his 90M deal.
Math says that is actually 4 years of a top 5 RB for 50M and cap mgmt that reduced cap hits significantly.

 

[jterrell]

Be glad to.

His first two years of the deal were cap neutral for Dallas.
So to make that plain he made the same money in 2019 and 2020 he would have had he not signed a long-term extension.
Following along so far? He basically got future money guaranteed and some upfront cash but it cost DAL zero on the cap sheet.

In 2020 his money for 2021 becomes GTD by the 5th day of league year. So who cares?
They weren't cutting him. Perhaps he eats his whole 10.9M cap hit. They could flip that down but may not bother given they are likely to be shock full of cap cash after extending Dak.

In 2021 he is scheduled to earn 13M. They can simply hand him ~8.5M of his base day 3 or 4 of league year.
Now his cap hit is 6.xM again for 2021. ----OR they cut him. He gets his 9.6M salary but that's all. They'd have to eat an additional 10M in cap hits but if he falls off the face of the earth unexpectedly this is worst case scenario. And they'd be clear of ALL money owed him.-----

Now he is GTD for 2022 at 12.4M but no future money at all.
They could flip his money again, 11M this time and his cap hit becomes 8.xM --again or repeat cut process with similar cap penalties.

In fact these are "built-in" salary flips because the extension was so long.
They do not have to ask for nor BUY extra years to spread out the cap hits.
Just hand his check over day 1 and lower cap hit.

So if you are following a long at home Cowboys have Zeke until he is 28 years old.(29/30 is considered the cliff) You have paid him now a max cap hit of 11M and only once have you topped 10M for his cap hit.
You can release him June of 2022 and get back cash.

Total actual money earned would be ~50M of his 90M deal.
Math says that is actually 4 years of a top 5 RB for 50M and cap mgmt that reduced cap hits significantly.

BTW.. compare this to they pay Dak his year 4 and 5 salaries.
6.xM
then his tender at 10.xM.

Now you resign him./... his SB is what? the same 20M total? 4-5M per year of new deal.
And you gotta give him 2 years GTD as is standard now. Maybe even a 3rd.
So you pay him basically the same EXACT deal he has now with more money pressed in fewer years so cap hits are larger and you have less...
And you do all this after CMC/Henry and Barkley raise the market price for RB?

All for what???
Stupidity.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Be glad to.

His first two years of the deal were cap neutral for Dallas.
So to make that plain he made the same money in 2019 and 2020 he would have had he not signed a long-term extension.
Following along so far? He basically got future money guaranteed and some upfront cash but it cost DAL zero on the cap sheet.

In 2020 his money for 2021 becomes GTD by the 5th day of league year. So who cares?
They weren't cutting him. Perhaps he eats his whole 10.9M cap hit. They could flip that down but may not bother given they are likely to be shock full of cap cash after extending Dak.

In 2021 he is scheduled to earn 13M. They can simply hand him ~8.5M of his base day 3 or 4 of league year.
Now his cap hit is 6.xM again for 2021. ----OR they cut him. He gets his 9.6M salary but that's all. They'd have to eat an additional 10M in cap hits but if he falls off the face of the earth unexpectedly this is worst case scenario. And they'd be clear of ALL money owed him.-----

Now he is GTD for 2022 at 12.4M but no future money at all.
They could flip his money again, 11M this time and his cap hit becomes 8.xM --again or repeat cut process with similar cap penalties.

In fact these are "built-in" salary flips because the extension was so long.
They do not have to ask for nor BUY extra years to spread out the cap hits.
Just hand his check over day 1 and lower cap hit.

So if you are following a long at home Cowboys have Zeke until he is 28 years old.(29/30 is considered the cliff) You have paid him now a max cap hit of 11M and only once have you topped 10M for his cap hit.
You can release him June of 2022 and get back cash.

Total actual money earned would be ~50M of his 90M deal.
Math says that is actually 4 years of a top 5 RB for 50M and cap mgmt that reduced cap hits significantly.

Zeke details:
Highest AAV at time
Highest guarantees at the time
Most years to get out of the contract. Longer than McCaff even
Most cash in first three years of all still


But you mentioned his max CAP being $11M through his age 28 season, which isn't true at all.

 

[Hadenough]

Let’s see how MM runs them this year. He has never had a running tandem like this before.

It would be a breath of fresh air if they don't have to wear Zeke down the first 3 quarters. Let's hope big Mike is the answer.

 

[waldoputty]

You pay players based on past performance as well as predicted future performance.
It is the way it works.

Dallas could have signed Zeke 2 months earlier lsat year and saved some drama and had a more ready to go RB in 2019.
A slightly better Zeke and perhaps they go to and win a playoff game. We both speculate on facts not in evidence.

He only made 6M LAST YEAR so his salary was hardly a factor in them not being good enough.
Sucking at safety and TE combined with the QB getting hurt dragged them down.

What they do this year doesn't really matter for Zeke 2021. Because again they can simply flip his salary which would have long since been GTD by paying it now to lower his cap hit significantly in year 3.
All the 5th day GTD stuff does is make them decide early on each year and prevent a post June 1st cut in 2021/22.
Every name player coming through Dallas has left with some dead money. The team has a pool of money for this and carries over plenty of money yearly.
Cutting Zeke isn't onerous after 2021 and until then you could lower his cap hit at any time or yearly if you desired.
He basically makes Jaylon Smith money and isn't enough to truly matter.

Any position on the field you are actually better off signing a guy earlier rather than later because costs go up yearly at every position.
CMC just got paid more than Zeke for outproducing him 1 time. DH will do the same. Then Barkley.

Zeke is basically playing on his 10M tender this year. And he basically made his 6M in 2019.
Dallas isn't really out any new money in cap costs AT ALL.
Dallas can cut him in 2022 and get either 6M or 11M BACK in cap space if they so desire.
All his new contract really GTD him was 13M in 2021.
That's it, that's all.
Anything else he has to earn.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/ezekiel-elliott-18952/

• 2021 salary fully guarantees on 3/22/2020 (injury guaranteed now)
• 2022 salary fully guarantees on the 5th league day of 2021 (injury guaranteed now)

the structure sucks
these means that they need to lose 1 year of guaranteed salary to cut him the year after.
in this case, we are already stuck in 2021 season with medicore rb at top 3 rb pay if his play regresses.
and what smart team pays for past performance?
would the patriots?

 

[aria]

None of those players have topped Zeke more than 1 time ever.
You are reading a crystal ball here and thus why it is hard to take you seriously with any of this.

Barkley is an amazing back outside the tackles but struggles with basic interior runs. We've watched Dallas dominate him and the Giants to see him get 70 yard run down 21 that looks great on sports center but mattered zero in game. SB might be better but that team has been so bad . SB was 16th last year in rushing yards. 10th in RYPG.
CMC is special but his size has meant a slow go in terms of rushes and overall usage. 1 season has he been better than Zeke.
Cook has been injured and inconsistent missing 14 game sin 3 seasons. He's never touched Zeke in rushing yards.
Henry has 1 season where he outperformed Zeke ans has only been a starter 2 of his 4 NFL seasons.

You can’t keep using stats to support Zeke but discrediting our O line stats. We were 2nd best in run blocking last year per a reputable source that breaks it down comprehensively.

You do realize Barkley was hurt for about 75% of the season last year and also had one of the worst run blocking lines in the league since his rookie year? How can you try to compare RB’s statistically without even mentioning the offensive lines?

Barkley blew zeke away in several categories his rookie year and he literally had one of the bottom 4 lines in the league whereas Zeke had on of the top 4. How you can ignore that is mind blowing. Have you ever noticed that zeke never has bad games? It’s always the O lines fault when he does but when he doesn’t there’s no mention of the O line yet other RB’s don’t get that same excuse, why is that?

 

[LatinMind]

The contract details were very very bad though....

not even a little. What made the deal smart is a good portion of his guaranteed money was going to be paid in yrs of his rookie deal. making no year when the new money came into play they could get out of the contract if the production didnt match the play. As they can get out of his deal after next yr as a june 1 cut and only count 5.4mil in 2022 and 2023 saving 11.1mil in 2022 and 9.6mil in 2023. Or just cut him outright in 2023 and only owe him 6.7mil and save 8.3 on the cap.

I dont think most people realize how good of a deal this was for Dallas. People were saying Elliot had a down yr in 2019 and he had 1300 yrds and 12 tds and 1700+ total yrds and 14 total tds. All this while being underused by his coaches. If thats reguarded as a down yr for elliot then id say he's a pretty damn good RB.

 

[aria]

It would be a breath of fresh air if they don't have to wear Zeke down the first 3 quarters. Let's hope big Mike is the answer.

Then he wouldn’t get the rushing title so what would his supporters use to defend then? He doesn’t even take top 10 in several other categories, that’s pretty much all they can use to support him and it’s strictly based on his number of carries.

 

[Corso]

You can’t keep using stats to support Zeke but discrediting our O line stats. We were 2nd best in run blocking last year per a reputable source that breaks it down comprehensively.

You do realize Barkley was hurt for about 75% of the season last year and also had one of the worst run blocking lines in the league since his rookie year? How can you try to compare RB’s statistically without even mentioning the offensive lines?

Barkley blew zeke away in several categories his rookie year and he literally had one of the bottom 4 lines in the league whereas Zeke had on of the top 4. How you can ignore that is mind blowing. Have you ever noticed that zeke never has bad games? It’s always the O lines fault when he does but when he doesn’t there’s no mention of the O line yet other RB’s don’t get that same excuse, why is that?

Your loathing is insatiable.