Twitter: Todd France and CAA part ways

[Diehardblues]

That remains to be seen.

That’s a risk you and others who aren’t sold on Dak are willing to take.

I’m not sure it’s a risk the Cowboys organization is willing to take as by all accounts we’ve seen and heard is they are All In.

And why it’s ultimately just going to cost us more next year and why we are being criticized for not getting a deal done now.

 

[Diehardblues]

Last I checked neither of them have an NFL team. So for now, all 32 teams are like, "Nah." But perhaps one of them will become Nick Foles one day.

Those are fair arguments. But none of them walked into an offense like this.

Most likely If Dak walked in to any of those offenses he wouldn’t have a team either.

 

[MarcusRock]

Yes, this leaves all of the options open, tag him again, tag and trade him, sign him or let him walk and get another QB.

And what some don't seem to grasp is this does nothing to the relationship of Prescott and the Joneses, it was merely business

I'm definitely in favor of players getting paid after having gotten abused by owners in the past but I can't knock this logic.

I do think that if we decide to move on from Dak that we'll be screwed for quite some time at QB.

 

[Diehardblues]

I don't know what you understood or didn't. That has nothing to do with anything. I simply stated what was reported. We don't know what the last offer actually was so it's foolish for us to assume the team didn't move off the original offer, one way or the other.

The team is 100% correct in this negotiation IMO. They had a deal and then Dak and CAA backed out. If there is no integrity in a negotiation, then there is no reason to negotiate. It is what it is and all the rest is unimportant.

If Dak plays well, then the team will sign him long term. If not, then he will likely get traded. That's how I see it.

In other words , you aren’t sold on Dak which we’ve already established that and explains your stance.

But my critique is of the Cowboys organization which are All In on Dak and intend on signing him which will only cost more next year.

 

[MarcusRock]

Those are fair arguments. But none of them walked into an offense like this.

Most likely If Dak walked in to any of those offenses he wouldn’t have a team either.

He probably would have had better coaching, that's for sure.

 

[Diehardblues]

He probably would have had better coaching, that's for sure.

But not the supporting cast. We saw what Dak was without a top RB , WR And OL. Those are pretty good examples of how he’d of been in other offenses.

 

[CouchCoach]

I'm definitely in favor of players getting paid after having gotten abused by owners in the past but I can't knock this logic.

I do think that if we decide to move on from Dak that we'll be screwed for quite some time at QB.

Considering their track record at that position, that's a safe bet. They need luck more than skill to find one.

While there are no guarantees in drafting that position, I would be in favor of them packaging one of the WRs, Elliott and the 1st to move up and get Lawrence. The only way that works is if the team holding the 1st overall doesn't need a QB and even those that don't think they don't, would they pass on him?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

France was right to push this to the wall, look what Elliott and Lawrence's agents got them. Cooper's didn't really have to do anything.

I don't know if I agree with this part Coach. Mind you, I have no proof of this at all, it's just what I suspect, but I think Jerry and the team do not like France and I do think it's a bit personal. I think the team didn't like what happened with Romo and I think the team didn't like what happened with DLaw and I think the team didn't like what happened with Dak. Now, this doesn't mean they wouldn't negotiate with France but I suspect that the Cowboys are not alone here. I would guess that France going his own way may have a lot to do with this and what other teams think of France. I think his act is wearing thin on a lot of teams. He's clearly the most successful agent CAA has or had so why do you turn him loose? I think it might be because teams are at the point where they are saying, we aren't going to do business with you if France is representing clients. That's happened before in sports and I suspect that this might be what's going on with France and CAA as well. Just a guess on my part.

 

[CouchCoach]

But not the supporting cast. We saw what Dak was without a top RB , WR And OL. Those are pretty good examples of how he’d of been in other offenses.

Well, there is that. The only rookie QB's to step into a situation like he did were Marino and Rothliesberger.

The other benefit Prescott had was the lack of prep time as the #1 guy. They had to rush him in and basically play NFL QB 101 and run a very basic fundamental offense. All he had to do was get the ball to the weapons or use his legs when he needed that.

However, even the strongest Dakaters have a hard time not admitting he has improved. Now, just how good he is and if he's at his ceiling? That's a different argument but I watched him from his junior season on and he has definitely improved.

One thing some people have got to get past, and some couldn't do it with Romo, is the lack of pedigree. Since this is the Dallas Cowboys, some feel they need some Heisman stud or the 1st overall pick at QB. 4th round pick? Naah, can't have that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You’re certainly entitled to your belief but I don’t believe winning championships is the only measurement of QB’s which is more of a team measurement. But it certainly explains your opinion.

It's not the only measurement but it's the one that matters most when you are talking about paying a QB a contract that will likely break your cap. Mahomes got paid on what? On a championship and that matters IMO.

So yeah, there are other measurements but we aren't talking about paying QBs who are judged on that sort of criteria. We are talking about Dak and his representation wanting to get paid top money in the NFL. Of course there are QBs who get paid in the NFL off of other criteria but that's not the Dak discussion. It never really was because of his representation.

 

[CouchCoach]

I don't know if I agree with this part Coach. Mind you, I have no proof of this at all, it's just what I suspect, but I think Jerry and the team do not like France and I do think it's a bit personal. I think the team didn't like what happened with Romo and I think the team didn't like what happened with DLaw and I think the team didn't like what happened with Dak. Now, this doesn't mean they wouldn't negotiate with France but I suspect that the Cowboys are not alone here. I would guess that France going his own way may have a lot to do with this and what other teams think of France. I think his act is wearing thin on a lot of teams. He's clearly the most successful agent CAA has or had so why do you turn him loose? I think it might be because teams are at the point where they are saying, we aren't going to do business with you if France is representing clients. That's happened before in sports and I suspect that this might be what's going on with France and CAA as well. Just a guess on my part.

I can't venture a guess but since he's 3rd with clients, I'd say it's more him wanting to move on because he has a history of doing this. If he has a stud, they will deal with him. Much has been made about the other two players that he has being a struggle, along with Prescott, but none of these 3 players are in the league of Bosa and the deal he got for him.

If I am a player, I take a look at how dug in France was with those 3 players and ask myself "what will he do for me".

I remember when all of that "we're not going to take it anymore" crap was swirling around Rosenhaus and Condon, they seem to be doing fine. There is always at least one team that will dance with the devil in the pale moonlight to get a player that they want.

France was in a no lose situation once they used the exclusive tag on Prescott. They didn't want him shopping Prescott and Prescott gets 31.4M for one year, plus all of those endorsement deals that France got for him. Let's not forget that.

 

[Diehardblues]

It's not the only measurement but it's the one that matters most when you are talking about paying a QB a contract that will likely break your cap. Mahomes got paid on what? On a championship and that matters IMO. Championships do matter. It didn’t with Stafford and Ryan the previous years who became top paid.

So yeah, there are other measurements but we aren't talking about paying QBs who are judged on that sort of criteria. We are talking about Dak and his representation wanting to get paid top money in the NFL. Of course there are QBs who get paid in the NFL off of other criteria but that's not the Dak discussion. It never really was because of his representation.

I believe Mahommes would have recieved a contract similar to that without winning the Super Bowl.

I’m not really interested in discussing whether or not we believe Dak is worth it. I’m only interested in what the Cowboys organization believes.

And if you’re already sold on Dak then he won’t be cheaper next year.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Dak now has a chance to sign in Dallas next year with Todd France imploding. Its still long shot .. It will take a convincing SB appearance. More than likely, Dak leaves next year via a tag and trade . The ball is in Daks court. Hope he bet on himself wisely.

And which conversation with Jones did he tell you if push comes to shove and Prescott was on the tag again next season that Jones was going to then trade him as soon as he signs it?
.
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[CouchCoach]

I believe Mahommes would have recieved a contract similar to that without winning the Super Bowl.

I’m not really interested in discussing whether or not we believe Dak is worth it. I’m only interested in what the Cowboys organization believes.

And if you’re already sold on Dak then he won’t be cheaper next year.

I agree, Mahomes was getting what he got regardless of the ring. QB's don't get paid on rings, Brees, Rodgers and Wilson have one each. That position is truly set by the market and every team has to have a QB1.

The only QB I can recall getting paid on a ring was Flacco, when he was in his contract year.

 

[Diehardblues]

Well, there is that. The only rookie QB's to step into a situation like he did were Marino and Rothliesberger.

The other benefit Prescott had was the lack of prep time as the #1 guy. They had to rush him in and basically play NFL QB 101 and run a very basic fundamental offense. All he had to do was get the ball to the weapons or use his legs when he needed that.

However, even the strongest Dakaters have a hard time not admitting he has improved. Now, just how good he is and if he's at his ceiling? That's a different argument but I watched him from his junior season on and he has definitely improved.

One thing some people have got to get past, and some couldn't do it with Romo, is the lack of pedigree. Since this is the Dallas Cowboys, some feel they need some Heisman stud or the 1st overall pick at QB. 4th round pick? Naah, can't have that.

My argument continues to be centered around what the Cowboys organization believes not you or I.

If they are All In as they have been touting then they missed an opportunity to lock him up for probably less than they will next year or beyond. Not to mention the risk of losing their Franchise QB they were sold on.

This is the basis of the criticism .

All of us who aren’t totally sold on Dak we don’t mind paying more with more evidence.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That’s a risk you and others who aren’t sold on Dak are willing to take.

I’m not sure it’s a risk the Cowboys organization is willing to take as by all accounts we’ve seen and heard is they are All In.

And why it’s ultimately just going to cost us more next year and why we are being criticized for not getting a deal done now.

This is opinion on your part, which is fine, but the truth is you don't know if that's a risk anybody is or isn't willing to take. You just don't know that but it's fine to state your opinion on it. My opinion is that much of this will be based on what McCarthy sees and what his evaluations are on Dak. I think that Dak was in a position in 2019 to sign a deal that proably would have netted him 30 to 33 on a five year deal with three years fully guaranteed and 50 mil plus up front. I believe that if he signs that deal then, which was a really good deal for him, he is free and clear on his career path because he is likely coming up on another contract in 2022, which sets him up for a the new TV deal, the CBA deal and likely gets him clear from the the Covid issues. He didn't do that so that's on him and his representation but if he does that, he's probably cemented in as the long term starter. But, he failed to recognize (or maybe he didnt?) that Garrett was vulnerable and could see the door. He failed to recognize, perhaps, that if that happens then a new HC is brought in and that situation introduces an outside opinion on Dak and his game. I mean, that's gonna happen now good or bad.

If Dak signs that deal in 2019, he is good IMO. I believed that at the time, I stated my opinion then and I do it now. This was a mistake to me but as I said earlier, it's done now.

 

[Diehardblues]

I agree, Mahomes was getting what he got regardless of the ring. QB's don't get paid on rings, Brees, Rodgers and Wilson have one each. That position is truly set by the market and every team has to have a QB1.

The only QB I can recall getting paid on a ring was Flacco, when he was in his contract year.

Yea but he had a darn good year. Played lights out in the playoffs.

We only need to look back to Stafford in 2017 and Ryan in 2018 with non championship QB’s who were top paid after their new contracts.

Dak becoming top paid for one season really isn’t that big of deal if you’re sold he’s your QB1. That’s the nature of the league with your Franchise QB. The market drives it more than their status.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I can't venture a guess but since he's 3rd with clients, I'd say it's more him wanting to move on because he has a history of doing this. If he has a stud, they will deal with him. Much has been made about the other two players that he has being a struggle, along with Prescott, but none of these 3 players are in the league of Bosa and the deal he got for him.

If I am a player, I take a look at how dug in France was with those 3 players and ask myself "what will he do for me".

I remember when all of that "we're not going to take it anymore" crap was swirling around Rosenhaus and Condon, they seem to be doing fine. There is always at least one team that will dance with the devil in the pale moonlight to get a player that they want.

France was in a no lose situation once they used the exclusive tag on Prescott. They didn't want him shopping Prescott and Prescott gets 31.4M for one year, plus all of those endorsement deals that France got for him. Let's not forget that.

Well, he was in a "No Lose Situation" and he lost. I mean, I suppose you can say that he won because he got the Tag but I don't really see it that way. I suppose it's all in how a person sees it.

 

[MarcusRock]

But not the supporting cast. We saw what Dak was without a top RB , WR And OL. Those are pretty good examples of how he’d of been in other offenses.

Not so sure about that. That's what good coaches are for. Maximizing the talent based on what you got. And if you're on a piss poor team they will bring you talent as the years go on. Someone like Paxton Lynch couldn't even last to a time when the team got a Courtlandt Sutton to throw to. And now with Jeudy, their receiving corps rivals ours but it's another drafted QB who'll get that chance. If Dak wasn't talented he wouldn't have been franchised and we'd have reloaded similarly. I think if Dak had ended up in Pittsburgh behind Roethlisberger and stepped in when he got injured he'd have done well there.

I think Romo basically had to teach himself the position over the years to become more effective. I think Dak has a similar drive and work ethic but it's always better when you don't have to overcome your own coaching/playcalling to a degree. This year will tell us something. And if we like it, then yes, Dak costs more next year than he would have this year.

 

[CouchCoach]

My argument continues to be centered around what the Cowboys organization believes not you or I.

If they are All In as they have been touting then they missed an opportunity to lock him up for at least 4 years and for probably less than they will next year or beyond. Not to mention the risk of losing their Franchise QB they were sold on.

This is the basis of the criticism .

All of us who aren’t totally sold on Dak we don’t mind paying more with more evidence.

I am not sure about what those on the inside think but if they're as sold as they've tried to convince us, why not just get the deal done? 4 years, 5 years, who cares? Worry about that later like they do everything else.

I think there are some on the inside that like Prescott, don't love him. I think there are some that would prefer to build around a Tier 1 QB as opposed to a Tier 2 that will need more weapons.

And that one fact still remains and the Daksters can't make it go away. He is not the same QB with a RB or WR out, he is weapon dependent. Nothing wrong with that, there is a limited number of Tier 1's but it takes a lot less hits to build around a guy like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Wilson. That, I believe, is the consensus of opinion about Prescott within the management of the Cowboys.