Emmitt Smith/Jerry Rice Double Standard (BTB)

[Irvin88_4life]

If I had to pick two receivers it would be Jerry Rice and Randy Moss.

Who would you pick?

Irvin of course.

I think Moss was better than Jerry Rice though

 

[Irvin88_4life]

I find that comment completely laughable. Im sure Irvin would have better numbers. But no chance does he have Rice or Moss numbers.

Irvin was known for leadership, route running , hands, toughness. Didnt need Montana and Bill Walsh to see that. And you didnt need them to see that he didnt have the deep speed, the separation, or the YAC to be on that level.

You don't know if he would have had Rice numbers or not. Just like you don't know if Sanders would have had Emmitt numbers on Dallas. Sanders had good OL but they looked worst because he danced in the backfield so much.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Irvin of course.

I think Moss was better than Jerry Rice though

My gosh just stop it.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

But......Jerry actually played on more stacked teams than Emmitt. His supporting cast had a combined 69 Pro Bowls and 18 All-Pro (1st Team) selections between them. If you include his offensive lines, that makes 126 Pro Bowls and 33 All-Pro selections. By comparison, Emmitt's supporting cast had 48 Pro Bowls and 14 All-Pro selections.

This is so obviously fundamentally flawed it’s laughable.

 

[Thomas82]

Jerry also played six more seasons than Emmitt, so if you’re simply looking at each player’s career, year-for-year and counting the number of teammates that played in a Pro Bowl or chosen as an All Pro your whole premise is flawed.

No, that's not at all what I'm doing. My point was that Emmitt gets penalized for the teammates he had while other all-time greats get a pass.

 

[Thomas82]

This is so obviously fundamentally flawed it’s laughable.

Call it what you want.

 

[Thomas82]

And when he wasn't getting the ball, he was blocking...very well!

Which means he got hit on every play, whether he was getting the ball or not.

 

[Thomas82]

If you want to end the argument about it was him or his line, just watch games when emmitt wasn't in the lineup.

Ends that argument quick.

Yes, and the fact that from 1991-1995, with '94 being the exception, Emmitt averaged at least a full yard per carry more than the next best running back on the team.

 

[Thomas82]

Actually Barry did need the spread formation. I forget what year it was, but Detroit tried to run Barry behind a lead blocker and it was a disaster. They had to go back to the spread, or run and shoot, whatever it was, and Barry still managed to lead the league in rushing. But for the first 3-4 games he was completely ineffective. They usually took him out in GL situations too. I'm pretty sure it was in an episode of "A Football Life".

It sounds like you're talking about 1997, the year he ran for 2,053 yards. He had 53 yards total in the first 2 games and ran for an even 2,000 in the last 14.

 

[Thomas82]

Been saying this for years. I’ve maintained that Jerry Rice is the receiver analog to Emmitt Smith as running back. Great post.

Thanks......it's nice to see somebody else that understands where I'm coming from.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

No, that's not at all what I'm doing. My point was that Emmitt gets penalized for the teammates he had while other all-time greats get a pass.

No, that’s literally what you did.

You looked at the total number of Pro Bowls/All Pro teammates each player played with over the course of their careers.

Of course Emmitt’s total number will be less because he played six less seasons than Rice did.

 

[Thomas82]

No, that’s literally what you did.

You looked at the total number of Pro Bowls/All Pro teammates each player played with over the course of their careers.

Of course Emmitt’s total number will be less because he played six less seasons than Rice did.

Not really, but we'll agree to disagree. But I like how you ignored the point I was trying to make.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Not really, but we'll agree to disagree. But I like how you ignored the point I was trying to make.

Because the point you tried making is fundamentally flawed by your approach to comparative analysis.

“His (Rice’s) supporting cast had a combined 69 Pro Bowls and 18 All-Pro (1st Team) selections between them. [...] By comparison,Emmitt's supporting cast had 48 Pro Bowls and 14 All-Pro selections.“

Funny, you forgot to include the six extra seasons Rice played.

That’s like heehawing about how many more TDs Warren Moon has thrown than Dak Prescott but failing to acknowledge Moon played in 140 more games than Dak.

 

[Tenkamenin]

In his prime, Rice was clearly the best at his possession and the next wr was a distant second. Emmitt was great, but so was Barry Sanders, and most non-Cowboy fans would pick Barry as the greater of the two while every non-niner fan would say Jerry was the best at his position.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Jordan retired twice. Stockton is the only big name guy one from the 1984 draft that played the full 20 season from 1984-85 to 2002-2003

This reply is very random.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Jordan retired twice. Stockton is the only big name guy one from the 1984 draft that played the full 20 season from 1984-85 to 2002-2003

The earth has one moon, while other planets have multiple moons.

 

[CowboyRoy]

You don't know if he would have had Rice numbers or not. Just like you don't know if Sanders would have had Emmitt numbers on Dallas. Sanders had good OL but they looked worst because he danced in the backfield so much.

Therefore you can say any outlandish thing you want?

Saying you never know for sure isn't a credible position. All it means is you have nothing else. Watched Jerry, Irvin, and Moss for all of their careers. Dont need to look at stats. Both Moss and Rice were in another league. And that's coming from a Cowboys fan.

But I admire your homer devotion to the Cowboys. Just not your opinion in a rational football debate.

 

[xwalker]

I just finished reading a BTB article that talks about this, and I saw in the comments that even Cowboys fans sell Emmitt short in this discussion. Without trying to sound biased, here are my thoughts on it:

Jerry Rice is the equivalent of Emmitt Smith at the wide receiver position. Just like Emmitt does for running back, he holds the majority of the major NFL records for receivers.

They also have a couple of career parallels: They both slid in the draft because of concerns over their measurables at the NFL Combine. Neither was the first player selected at their position in their drafts. They both won 3 Super Bowls. They even retired the same year.

But......Jerry actually played on more stacked teams than Emmitt. His supporting cast had a combined 69 Pro Bowls and 18 All-Pro (1st Team) selections between them. If you include his offensive lines, that makes 126 Pro Bowls and 33 All-Pro selections. By comparison, Emmitt's supporting cast had 48 Pro Bowls and 14 All-Pro selections.

If Jerry Rice is widely considered the GOAT wide receiver and gets a pass for the teammates he played with, why does Emmitt Smith get penalized for his teammates when his name is mentioned as an all-time great?

Emmitt's supporting cast was top-notch, but HE was the most important and indispensable out of the group. Even with all the talent that Emmitt had surrounding him, teams still feared him the most when they played the Cowboys. He routinely faced defenses stacked with 8 and 9 men in the box. They wanted to take their chances with the passing game and not let Emmitt get going.

I have a little bit more to add, but for right now I'll leave off here and give you a link to the article below:

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/202...itt-smith-is-also-the-greatest-rb-of-all-time

The 92 and 93 Cowboys teams might be the best ever.

It's an impossible comparison.

Jerry Rice was a magician on the field. I can't explain how he did what he did.

Both needed to be in the right schemes/teams.

Jerry Rice in the Al Davis vertical scheme would be limited.

Emmitt in the Barry Sanders role would likely have struggled.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Therefore you can say any outlandish thing you want?

Saying you never know for sure isn't a credible position. All it means is you have nothing else. Watched Jerry, Irvin, and Moss for all of their careers. Dont need to look at stats. Both Moss and Rice were in another league. And that's coming from a Cowboys fan.

But I admire your homer devotion to the Cowboys. Just not your opinion in a rational football debate.

I'm a Cowboys homer cause I think Irvin was the only player from the Cowboys to be the best at his position....... unless you include Deion Sanders at
CB....... makes me a Cowboys homer, yep ok then buddy

 

[JayFord]

Its as simple as this

emmitt plays for Dallas, everyone hates Dallas so they’ll say anything to diminish his value