Kaiser Rolls out notes on Seahawks game

Kaiser

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Success has a thousand fathers, defeat is an orphan and some defeats come down to a few very, very basic things.

You aren’t going to win when you are starting two UDFA tackles. Losing Tyron Smith is basically a 7 point swing. Tony Pollard gave Seattle 9 points in his endzone braincramp. Add in execution mistakes because of the lack of a preseason and this game shouldn’t have been close playing against Russell Wilson. Our passing game kept us in the game, which was a minor miracle. But Dallas didn’t get a gift to win it like last week.


Remember Amari Cooper last year saying Gallup was a #1? He was right.


Our DBs were bad yesterday (moreso in the first half) but sometimes you have to look at the long term under the salary cap. Dallas had an upper tier RB in Demarco Murray, who left for a greatly overpaid contract. Dallas signed Darren McFadden and got good production at a bargain rate, then drafted Zeke. For that one year DeMarco was a better player but it was the right move to suffer through one downgraded year instead of overpaying DeMarco. Continuing the analogy, its better over the long term to have Worley at a bargain than to break the bank for Byron Jones. Even if this year is a downgrade.


Jourdan Lewis averaged 2 TFL a season for three years, 2 yesterday. At this point I would gamble on giving the boom-or-bust Lewis more reps at CB with Worley and Carr taking the Free Safety snaps now.


Our 4th WR Cedric Wilson had 107 receiving yards yesterday. Our 4th WR two years ago, Deonte Thompson (who had four starts that year) had 124 yards for the season. We are going to make that kind of upgrade to the defensive back group next year.


Trysten Hill and Antwuan Woods are the backup DTs but better than the starters. Hill got more snaps than Crawford (53 to 39) but Woods got less than Poe (32 – 52).


Glad we listened to fans and cut Dalton Schutz after the first game. Schultz is going to be an average starter, which is fine for a backup that cost us a 4th round pick.


On the swing pass to Zeke that looked like a facemask initially, it was a legal tackle. Why? Because you can grab a player by the back of the helmet but not the shoulder pads. Shouldn’t they amend this rule?


ARTICLE 16. HORSE-COLLAR TACKLE

No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, or grab the jersey at the name plate or above, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a quarterback who is in the pocket.
 

CooterBrown

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On the facemask non-call, the initial grab was the back of the helmet but as he was pulling Zeke down, his hand slipped around and did grab the lower portion of the face mask. But, the angle was such that the official couldn't see it. I don't blame the official, they can't see them all.
 

John813

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Our DBs were bad yesterday (moreso in the first half) but sometimes you have to look at the long term under the salary cap. Dallas had an upper tier RB in Demarco Murray, who left for a greatly overpaid contract. Dallas signed Darren McFadden and got good production at a bargain rate, then drafted Zeke. For that one year DeMarco was a better player but it was the right move to suffer through one downgraded year instead of overpaying DeMarco. Continuing the analogy, its better over the long term to have Worley at a bargain than to break the bank for Byron Jones. Even if this year is a downgrade.

But will we be in position to take the best corner available next year? Like we did in 2016 with Zeke replacing McFad.
And, was it worth using the 4th overall pick on a running back when you could of drafted a guy like Ramsey or Forest, who play harder to acquire positions?
Could of kept Murray, who desperately wanted to stay, maybe at a discount to what he got paid by the Eagles to remain here and then gotten an All-pro DT or corner.
And then,if they kept Murray, would Romo not borken his collarbone in week 2? Randle was a knuckle head early on. Murray was like Zeke, a good pass blocker.


Note: Some of the questions above are just discussion questions.
 

ClappingCarrot

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One of the worst things I noticed when rewatching was our defensive play call on 4th and 3 on the last Seahawks drive. We get that stop, the game is likely over. We rush four and play soft zone and allow Olsen to just lay down in center field.

Have no idea why Nolan didn't at least attempt to bring the heat. Even if Russell beats the blitz and burns you, you're 1:49 drill turns into a 3 minute drill.
 

fivetwos

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One of the worst things I noticed when rewatching was our defensive play call on 4th and 3 on the last Seahawks drive. We get that stop, the game is likely over. We rush four and play soft zone and allow Olsen to just lay down in center field.

Have no idea why Nolan didn't at least attempt to bring the heat. Even if Russell beats the blitz and burns you, you're 1:49 drill turns into a 3 minute drill.
Thomas blowing the coverage didnt help, but we all knew they were getting that.

When was the last time this team made a big stop like that?

If Nolan DID blitz, they probably get burned for a TD then have time to score on the rebound.
 

Kaiser

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But will we be in position to take the best corner available next year? Like we did in 2016 with Zeke replacing McFad.
And, was it worth using the 4th overall pick on a running back when you could of drafted a guy like Ramsey or Forest, who play harder to acquire positions?
Could of kept Murray, who desperately wanted to stay, maybe at a discount to what he got paid by the Eagles to remain here and then gotten an All-pro DT or corner.
And then,if they kept Murray, would Romo not borken his collarbone in week 2? Randle was a knuckle head early on. Murray was like Zeke, a good pass blocker.


Note: Some of the questions above are just discussion questions.

Yes.
 

MarcusRock

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On the swing pass to Zeke that looked like a facemask initially, it was a legal tackle. Why? Because you can grab a player by the back of the helmet but not the shoulder pads. Shouldn’t they amend this rule?


ARTICLE 16. HORSE-COLLAR TACKLE

No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, or grab the jersey at the name plate or above, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a quarterback who is in the pocket.

Wrong.

Here is the applicable rule:

ARTICLE 15. TWISTING, PULLING, OR TURNING THE FACEMASK OR HELMET OPENING. No player shall grasp and
control, twist, turn, push, or pull the facemask or helmet opening of an opponent in any direction.

.
Note: If a player grasps an opponent’s facemask or helmet opening, he must immediately release it. If he does not
immediately release it and controls his opponent, it is a foul.

.
Penalty: For twisting, turning, pushing, pulling, or controlling the mask or helmet opening: Loss of 15 yards. The player
may be disqualified if the action is flagrant. If the foul is by the defense, it is also an automatic first down.

This penalty was called against Jeff Heath back in 2017 against Atlanta:

Helmet-Pull.gif


Doesn't look like K.J. Wright immediately released and did control Zeke with the pull. Should have been a penalty. Zeke knew the rule and complained.

EE-Helmet-Pull.gif
 

Kaiser

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Could of kept Murray, who desperately wanted to stay, maybe at a discount to what he got paid by the Eagles to remain here and then gotten an All-pro DT or corner.
And then,if they kept Murray, would Romo not borken his collarbone in week 2? Randle was a knuckle head early on. Murray was like Zeke, a good pass blocker.

I wanted Murray over Zeke but Zeke is a better player and will affect more games than a guy like Ramsey will.

About Demarco I don't get the argument that Demarco would have given Dallas a discount when he very clearly refused to give Dallas a discount. He went to the highest bidder and was wildly overpaid. Even if he took the final offer Dallas made (reportedly 6 or 7MM a season) he still would have been overpaid.

The Eagles gave him a 40 Million dollar deal and he only played three more seasons - averaging 900 yards a year for those three years. My point is we were much better off not making the overpayment for a FA. In that one year between Demarco and Zeke, Dallas got a RB who outrushed him (1089 to 702) for about one tenth of the salary. Going from Byron Jones to Trevon Diggs isn't going to be that dramatic, but its a better bet over the long run than making Jones the highest paid CB in the league.
 

HungryLion

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Wrong.

Here is the applicable rule:

ARTICLE 15. TWISTING, PULLING, OR TURNING THE FACEMASK OR HELMET OPENING. No player shall grasp and
control, twist, turn, push, or pull the facemask or helmet opening of an opponent in any direction.

.
Note: If a player grasps an opponent’s facemask or helmet opening, he must immediately release it. If he does not
immediately release it and controls his opponent, it is a foul.

.
Penalty: For twisting, turning, pushing, pulling, or controlling the mask or helmet opening: Loss of 15 yards. The player
may be disqualified if the action is flagrant. If the foul is by the defense, it is also an automatic first down.
This penalty was called against Jeff Heath back in 2017 against Atlanta:

Helmet-Pull.gif


Doesn't look like K.J. Wright immediately released and did control Zeke with the pull. Should have been a penalty. Zeke knew the rule and complained.

EE-Helmet-Pull.gif


Yes agreed. It was definitely a penalty. His fingers got into the opening.


I also feel like they missed one on the Cooper non catch. When he got hit in the head pretty hard while trying to catch. Haven’t seen any gifs or replays though.


If I recall correctly the defenders hand or arm came down right on top of coopers head and knocked his helmet off.
 

Hennessy_King

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Thomas blowing the coverage didnt help, but we all knew they were getting that.

When was the last time this team made a big stop like that?

If Nolan DID blitz, they probably get burned for a TD then have time to score on the rebound.
Yup the defensive play call was ok but players totally screwed up the coverage
 

Chuck 54

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I wanted Murray over Zeke but Zeke is a better player and will affect more games than a guy like Ramsey will.

About Demarco I don't get the argument that Demarco would have given Dallas a discount when he very clearly refused to give Dallas a discount. He went to the highest bidder and was wildly overpaid. Even if he took the final offer Dallas made (reportedly 6 or 7MM a season) he still would have been overpaid.

The Eagles gave him a 40 Million dollar deal and he only played three more seasons - averaging 900 yards a year for those three years. My point is we were much better off not making the overpayment for a FA. In that one year between Demarco and Zeke, Dallas got a RB who outrushed him (1089 to 702) for about one tenth of the salary. Going from Byron Jones to Trevon Diggs isn't going to be that dramatic, but its a better bet over the long run than making Jones the highest paid CB in the league.
The way our team is playing right now, Id trade Zeke for Ramsey straight up, plug in Pollard, and I think we’d win more games. That’s not a knock on Zeke, but we are so desperate for a quality player in the secondary, that would be a no brainer for me, hypothetically.
 

speedkilz88

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Success has a thousand fathers, defeat is an orphan and some defeats come down to a few very, very basic things.

You aren’t going to win when you are starting two UDFA tackles. Losing Tyron Smith is basically a 7 point swing. Tony Pollard gave Seattle 9 points in his endzone braincramp. Add in execution mistakes because of the lack of a preseason and this game shouldn’t have been close playing against Russell Wilson. Our passing game kept us in the game, which was a minor miracle. But Dallas didn’t get a gift to win it like last week.


Remember Amari Cooper last year saying Gallup was a #1? He was right.


Our DBs were bad yesterday (moreso in the first half) but sometimes you have to look at the long term under the salary cap. Dallas had an upper tier RB in Demarco Murray, who left for a greatly overpaid contract. Dallas signed Darren McFadden and got good production at a bargain rate, then drafted Zeke. For that one year DeMarco was a better player but it was the right move to suffer through one downgraded year instead of overpaying DeMarco. Continuing the analogy, its better over the long term to have Worley at a bargain than to break the bank for Byron Jones. Even if this year is a downgrade.


Jourdan Lewis averaged 2 TFL a season for three years, 2 yesterday. At this point I would gamble on giving the boom-or-bust Lewis more reps at CB with Worley and Carr taking the Free Safety snaps now.


Our 4th WR Cedric Wilson had 107 receiving yards yesterday. Our 4th WR two years ago, Deonte Thompson (who had four starts that year) had 124 yards for the season. We are going to make that kind of upgrade to the defensive back group next year.


Trysten Hill and Antwuan Woods are the backup DTs but better than the starters. Hill got more snaps than Crawford (53 to 39) but Woods got less than Poe (32 – 52).


Glad we listened to fans and cut Dalton Schutz after the first game. Schultz is going to be an average starter, which is fine for a backup that cost us a 4th round pick.


On the swing pass to Zeke that looked like a facemask initially, it was a legal tackle. Why? Because you can grab a player by the back of the helmet but not the shoulder pads. Shouldn’t they amend this rule?


ARTICLE 16. HORSE-COLLAR TACKLE

No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, or grab the jersey at the name plate or above, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a quarterback who is in the pocket.
I believe that grabbing inside the back of the helmet is still suppose to be a facemask penalty.
 

Kaiser

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I believe that grabbing inside the back of the helmet is still suppose to be a facemask penalty.

When I looked up the rule I assumed "facemask opening" was the front portion but apparently it covers anything.... open. Like Zeke's neck. Or something.

But if that is the case, Seattle would argue that Wright turned Zeke by the pads and the contact with the back of his helmet was accidental. Its weird phrasing in the rule language IMO.
 
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