Jalen Ramsey and Derrick Henry vs Zeke and Jaylon Smith

[aria]

Some more food for thought

Zeke

• Yds per carry before contact: 2018 2.8, 2019 2.3, 2020 1.8
• Yds per carry after contact: 2018 2.0, 2019 2.3, 2020 2.3
• Broken tackles: 2018 19, 2019 24, 2020 9

Henry

• Yds per carry before contact: 2018 1.9, 2019 1.9, 2020 3.1
• Yds per carry after contact: 2018 3.1, 2019 3.2, 2020 1.7
• Broken tackles: 2018 34, 2019 28, 2020 8

The trend since 2018 is that Zeke is getting quicker, but is gaining yds after contact at the same pace. While Henry is not getting touched until he is further downfield, but goes down quicker once he is hit. I think this clearly illustrates the decline of our OL and the improvement of the Ten OL.

Interesting that even though Henry is 6'3 and 250 lbs, Zeke is breaking more tackles (this year) and gaining more yds per carry after being hit. He has 208 yds after contact on 89 carries vs 204 on 123 carries for Henry.

So Henry has been significantly better in yards after contact before this season which still has a long ways to go and Henry has been better in broken tackles.

Lol “zeke is breaking more tackles”...by one! Maybe he’s also breaking “more tackles” because he’s not as elusive as Henry therefore defenders are getting his hands on him more.

Regardless, there’s not enough of a difference between the two to say zeke is that much better and there sure as hell isn’t a difference enough between the two to say zeke was worth the 4th overall pick when we could have had Henry in the 2nd. Henry is also costing less than zeke, didn’t hold out with two years left on his contract and hasn’t been a headache off the field since before the draft even started.

Take Henry over zeke all day.

 

[aria]

Zeke has 7500 yards form scrimmage since he was drafted.
Henry has 5000....
And FWIW I argued for skipping Zeke and drafting Henry pre-draft because Rb value was essentially low.

Where I was wrong in 2016.
Zeke is a multi-purpose back who can run, catch and block.
He plays heavy snaps because DAL can;t get anyone who can do any 1 of the aspects better than him.

Henry is a monster rush option but he has offers literally NOTHING in the passing game.
If TENN is down 15 like Dallas seem sot be every week, Henry would flat be on the bench.

Why don’t you take a look at the number of carries Henry had compared to zeke? It had nothing to do with his performance, I believe there is only one year when is ypc average was less than zeke’s and he tied or beat him the others.

zeke can catch? I saw him drop 3 easy passes against Seattle. Why don’t you look at all purpose yards between zeke and McCaffrey last year and tell me who was better between better at running and catching. zeke would never be able to handle McCaffreys workload.

 

[aria]

Zeke had what 4000+ yards his 1st 3 years

Henry had what 2200 yards his first 3 years.

By his 3rd year yall would have said cut Henry 700 yards a year average while Zeke avg 1300+.

All of a sudden Henry throws in 1 and a half good years and we forget about Zeke.

Everytime yall say a rb is better than Zeke they get hurt. Knock on wood.

McCaffrey hurt
Barkley hurt
Chubb hurt
Gurley bad knees
L aveon
Cason just not better
I remember some said Hunt before his incident was better.

Henry is good and I was good with either Henry or Zeke but wanted Zeke more. Zeke is still better as Henry has to prove he can sustain what he is doing.

Plus with Dak out Zeke is about to touch the ball alot more and prove his worth

Again, why don’t you look at the overall picture of why zeke had more yards, compare the number of carries between the two for their first 2-3 years. So Henry is inferior because of the play calling? I guess that means if Henry has more yards than zeke this year, like he did last year, because zeke had less carries with the addition of Lamb, Gallup and Cooper than that means Henry is the better back because he has more carries therefore more yards? Makes perfect sense!

You say you wanted zeke more. Did you want him that much more to justify giving up the 4th overall pick when we could have had Henry in the 2nd? If you’re answer is yes then you’re wrong.

 

[INCowboysFan]

So Henry has been significantly better in yards after contact before this season which still has a long ways to go and Henry has been better in broken tackles.

Lol “zeke is breaking more tackles”...by one! Maybe he’s also breaking “more tackles” because he’s not as elusive as Henry therefore defenders are getting his hands on him more.

Regardless, there’s not enough of a difference between the two to say zeke is that much better and there sure as hell isn’t a difference enough between the two to say zeke was worth the 4th overall pick when we could have had Henry in the 2nd. Henry is also costing less than zeke, didn’t hold out with two years left on his contract and hasn’t been a headache off the field since before the draft even started.

Take Henry over zeke all day.

LOL. Zeke has one more broken tackle with 35 fewer carries. I'll wager he gets a couple more tonight. Defenders are getting their hands on him because the OL isn't giving him holes (see the 1.8 yds before contact vs 3.1 for Henry). I'll concede that in hindsight they are equal backs at worst. But in 2016 Zeke was absolutely the right back to take given the OL that we had and Romo at QB. It was the right call then. The guy is on a HOF track and to say a player on course for the HOF was the wrong pick is ridiculous.

 

[aria]

LOL. Zeke has one more broken tackle with 35 fewer carries. I'll wager he gets a couple more tonight. Defenders are getting their hands on him because the OL isn't giving him holes (see the 1.8 yds before contact vs 3.1 for Henry). I'll concede that in hindsight they are equal backs at worst. But in 2016 Zeke was absolutely the right back to take given the OL that we had and Romo at QB. It was the right call then. The guy is on a HOF track and to say a player on course for the HOF was the wrong pick is ridiculous.

He’s on a HOF track because of the O line. I disagree, with the line we had in 2016, 90% of NFL RB’s would have had great success, which is exactly why we didn’t need to draft a RB that high. Hell, McFadden averaged more ypc the year before.

I don’t care how good a RB is, they are the most expendable position on offense, you never waste a draft pick that high on a RB. ESPECIALLY when you already have a top O line.

Look what happened when Gurley got hurt, all their fans freaked out until a guy that was sitting on his couch the week before by the name of CJ Anderson started carrying the rock and dominated...including zeke in the playoffs. Look who the Eagles won a SB with at RB and a great O line, Ajayi.

Championship teams don’t waste high draft picks on RB’s, this isn’t the early 90’s but Jerry keeps trying to recreate that, he doesn’t realize the game has evolved and neither do some of you. Has zeke even significantly helped us win one game this season? No.

 

[Creeper]

I said on draft night that taking Zeke was a mistake. But it has nothing to do with whether Zeke was the best RB in the draft class or whether Henry is better. RBs just do not have 4th pick in the draft value. Not Zeke and not Barkley.

First, RBs typically do not have long careers. Of course there are exceptions, like Emmitt, Frank Gore, and a few others. But overall, the more of a pounding they take, the shorter their careers. DBs on the other hand generally last a lot longer because they don't take the pounding RBs take. I would have picked Ramsey and not looked back. Then I would have looked for a RB in the 2nd or even 3rd round. Get a good offensive line and you can run the football with a guy like Demarco Murray.

Derrick Henry is a unique combination of size and speed. I heard today his 94 yard run was the 4th fastest in the league this year in terms of top speed. If he can get that big body up to more than 21 MPH, which is what he did, he is awfully hard to bring down. I still don't know if I would have used a 2nd round pick on him. At the time I would have gone DT in the 2nd and taken Chris Jones. The Cowboys took Maliek Collins in the 3rd.

It's easy to look back now and say Ramsey and Henry were the better choices but what were you thinking in 2016. For me it was Ramsey or DeForest Buckner in the first. My next pick would have been based on the 1st round.

 

[jblaze2004]

I just value good corners over good RBs.

Facts. I would trade Ramsey for Zeke.
With the way the rules are to promote/help offensive scoring you don't need to spend a top 10 draft pick on a running back. Zeke is good. But I would take a top corner in todays NFL over RB. Especially if we would of got henry in the second lol. But hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[BigStar]

When was the last time Zeke did this? @aria do you know?

High School?

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Zeke had what 4000+ yards his 1st 3 years

Henry had what 2200 yards his first 3 years.

By his 3rd year yall would have said cut Henry 700 yards a year average while Zeke avg 1300+.

All of a sudden Henry throws in 1 and a half good years and we forget about Zeke.

Everytime yall say a rb is better than Zeke they get hurt. Knock on wood.

McCaffrey hurt
Barkley hurt
Chubb hurt
Gurley bad knees
L aveon
Cason just not better
I remember some said Hunt before his incident was better.

Henry is good and I was good with either Henry or Zeke but wanted Zeke more. Zeke is still better as Henry has to prove he can sustain what he is doing.

Plus with Dak out Zeke is about to touch the ball alot more and prove his worth

I see how you threw out Henry’s 2018 season there, lol.

 

[Jake0]

Too much discussion over Zeke & Henry.

The worst decision by far was redshirting Jaylon over just drafting Myles Jack for instant impact.

 

[Whyjerry]

Facts. I would trade Ramsey for Zeke.
With the way the rules are to promote/help offensive scoring you don't need to spend a top 10 draft pick on a running back. Zeke is good. But I would take a top corner in todays NFL over RB. Especially if we would of got henry in the second lol. But hindsight is always 20/20.

I know the Zeke bandwagoners will freak out but you are right. You can’t pay for RBs. It almost never works out. Zeke is a good player for sure. No one doubts that. That said the decision to pay him and pay him early is one that will hurt the Cowboys.

 

[INCowboysFan]

Too much discussion over Zeke & Henry.

The worst decision by far was redshirting Jaylon over just drafting Myles Jack for instant impact.

Myles Jack had basically 0 impact in 2016 with Jax. What makes you think he would have immediate impact here?

 

[CowboyRoy]

And Zeke was drafted for Romo, not Dak. It’s Zeke’s career we wasted by going with the Glorified Garbage-Time Stat Padder.

Poor zeke. He gets 350 touches in the #1 offense in football and he just cant make a difference. LOL

Arent you proud of all his rushing titles?

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

LOL. Zeke has one more broken tackle with 35 fewer carries. I'll wager he gets a couple more tonight. Defenders are getting their hands on him because the OL isn't giving him holes (see the 1.8 yds before contact vs 3.1 for Henry). I'll concede that in hindsight they are equal backs at worst. But in 2016 Zeke was absolutely the right back to take given the OL that we had and Romo at QB. It was the right call then. The guy is on a HOF track and to say a player on course for the HOF was the wrong pick is ridiculous.

In that same time span that you provided (2018 to present), Henry has broken more tackles (62) than Zeke (43) in less carries (518 carries vs. 605 carries), so what exactly are you talking about?

Also, Zeke has actually maintained a respectable YPC (4.7, 4.5, 3.9) which tells you the o-line is opening holes for him at the LOS, but his complete lack of big plays indicates he’s not making people miss at the second level.

Again (to the people in the back row!), in 1,239 career carries Zeke has just four runs of 40+ yards.......and three (3) of those came in 2016.

 

[CowboyRoy]

So Henry has been significantly better in yards after contact before this season which still has a long ways to go and Henry has been better in broken tackles.

Lol “zeke is breaking more tackles”...by one! Maybe he’s also breaking “more tackles” because he’s not as elusive as Henry therefore defenders are getting his hands on him more.

Regardless, there’s not enough of a difference between the two to say zeke is that much better and there sure as hell isn’t a difference enough between the two to say zeke was worth the 4th overall pick when we could have had Henry in the 2nd. Henry is also costing less than zeke, didn’t hold out with two years left on his contract and hasn’t been a headache off the field since before the draft even started.

Take Henry over zeke all day.

Zeke isn't better, that's a fact. Henry is not only better at what Zeke does, but he also has that big play ability. AND he is better at getting into the endzone down by the GL and in short yardage situations.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

They were on the DC.com board. I have always been under the belief the Cowboys should have taken Ramsey in the 1st and Henry in the 2nd. But, I am one that didn’t understand why a QB who supposedly couldn’t win because he never had a defense needed a top 5 RB coming off a year when we had the #4 rusher in the league playing behind horrible QBs a hurt or missing #1 WR in 2015 and then took a defender who couldn’t play the first year and possibly never play.

Made no sane sense and still doesn’t make any sense today. As a matter of fact, It continues to look even worse as time goes on. The Browns are about the only team that could have screwed those first 2 picks up like we did.

Mind you the Cowboys wanted to relieve the success of 2014 and McFadden wasn't it despite having 1,000 yards. Zeke graded out as the best blocking running back in the draft and at a elite level. So factor in his ability to keep the defense off the field by chewing clock and keeping Romo clean? I can understand why someone would talk themselves into that pick.

And you can sit here and say they screwed up but Jaylon and Zeke have both played at a elite level at times throughout their career.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

So we over paid for a one year rental that we could have got in the second round? Fantastic logic.

A one year rental? What are you talking about? And look calm down. You can sit here and talk about "logic" but this organization has shown logic is not really existent. This team tried to trade up for Paxton Lynch in the same draft.

 

[aria]

A one year rental? What are you talking about? And look calm down. You can sit here and talk about "logic" but this organization has shown logic is not really existent. This team tried to trade up for Paxton Lynch in the same draft.

I mean the writing was on the wall with Romo, it was dumb to draft a RB that high “for Romo.”

Are you saying they wouldn’t have drafted zeke if Romo retired during the offseason?

Either way, defense wins championships, especially CB’s in a passing league, not RB’s. Horrible pick regardless of who or why they picked him.

 

[Aviano90]

Mind you the Cowboys wanted to relieve the success of 2014 and McFadden wasn't it despite having 1,000 yards. Zeke graded out as the best blocking running back in the draft and at a elite level. So factor in his ability to keep the defense off the field by chewing clock and keeping Romo clean? I can understand why someone would talk themselves into that pick.

And you can sit here and say they screwed up but Jaylon and Zeke have both played at a elite level at times throughout their career.

Spilled milk man. I just didn’t agree with it, nothing has changed my mind. We have had any real success to say it worked doing it the Cowboys way and we don’t have the luxury of reliving my way to see if it would have worked better/

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I mean the writing was on the wall with Romo, it was dumb to draft a RB that high “for Romo.”

Are you saying they wouldn’t have drafted zeke if Romo retired during the offseason?

Either way, defense wins championships, especially CB’s in a passing league, not RB’s. Horrible pick regardless of who or why they picked him.

I don't think they would've no. This organization thought Romo had a few years left.

Defense wins championships yet, how many corners taken in the top 10 have won championships lol?