Jalen Ramsey and Derrick Henry vs Zeke and Jaylon Smith

[khiladi]

And Zeke was drafted for Romo, not Dak. It’s Zeke’s career we wasted by going with the Glorified Garbage-Time Stat Padder.

 

[Aviano90]

That 94 yard run making people miss and outrunning the defense....as opposed to raming your head into defenders.

94 yard run was clocked at 21.62 mph, 4th fastest ball carrier this year. That's faster than Zeke ran in his rookie year when he was clocked at 21.5 mph. Simply impressive.

 

[jterrell]

Forget Ramsey and Zeke...it's all about DeForest Buckner. A true defensive anchor who could make the other 10 guys on the field better with his own play.

DAL would've resigned Buckner.
No way they give Ramsey that contract he got.
We had a plenty good CB in Byron Jones and let him walk.
Easy enough for team not to target 1 CB.

 

[jterrell]

94 yard run was clocked at 21.62 mph, 4th fastest ball carrier this year. That's faster than Zeke ran in his rookie year when he was clocked at 21.5 mph. Simply impressive.

Henry made it 15 yards untouched which is great play design and really good blocking.
And the same time he outran a CB which is pretty ridiculous at his size.

All that said Henry has been elite for only the last year and a half.
He was only at 13 attempts per game in 2018 and wasn't a starter in 2016 or 2017.
He doesn't sniff Zeke in any career stat but he's been better the last year plus for sure.

 

[INCowboysFan]

When was the last time Zeke did this? @aria do you know?

You mean when was the last time nobody laid an hand on Zeke? Probably 2016.

Lol, Henry just ran for the for more yards than zeke did in the cleveland and seattle game COMBINED! He just ran for 2 less yards on one play than zeke has during an entire game this season!

Half the price as the diva we have and never sat out. zeke wouldn’t have made it 10 yards past the LOS, assuming he didn’t slip or drop the ball first, and in the rare instance he did make it 20 yards further he would have stopped mid field and started tapping his head on his helmet to come out of the game.

Henry was also a 2nd round pick and was just extended on a much cheaper and better contract.

Yeah....

Henry has avg less than 4 yds per carry in 3 of 5 games. He never sits out?? He's not exceeded 75% of the offensive snaps this year.

Zeke has avg less than 4 yds per carry once this year and has not played less than 82% of the snaps in any game this season.

 

[INCowboysFan]

Yep, they just need to keep doing what they’re doing. They could be record breaking.

Zeke could make the HOF for most fumbles, and Jaylon the most missed tackles.

Except that Jaylon does not "miss" tackles. He had 12 in 2018 (9% missed tackle rate), 12 in 2019 (7.8% rate) and 4 this year (7% rate). BTW, there are 259 players that miss tackles at a higher rate than Jaylon. first on the list is Trystan Hill who has a missed tackle rate of 35.3%!!! But that should be a whole separate topic.

 

[jterrell]

You mean when was the last time nobody laid an hand on Zeke? Probably 2016.

Henry has avg less than 4 yds per carry in 3 of 5 games. He never sits out?? He's not exceeded 75% of the offensive snaps this year.

Zeke has avg less than 4 yds per carry once this year and has not played less than 82% of the snaps in any game this season.

Would you be surprised to know Zeke has MORE yards from scrimmage last year than Derrick Henry?

 

[INCowboysFan]

Would you be surprised to know Zeke has MORE yards from scrimmage last year than Derrick Henry?

Not surprised at all

Henry also fumbled more than Zeke last year.

 

[cffl2323]

I'd settle for Thornhill over Hill, or Watt over Taco. I think those were more obvious mistakes at the time.

 

[aria]

You mean when was the last time nobody laid an hand on Zeke? Probably 2016.

Henry has avg less than 4 yds per carry in 3 of 5 games. He never sits out?? He's not exceeded 75% of the offensive snaps this year.

Zeke has avg less than 4 yds per carry once this year and has not played less than 82% of the snaps in any game this season.

So Henry is to blame for the play calling? I said I’ve never seen him tap out.

Convenient you mention snap % but not carries. Henry has 120 carries, zeke has 90. You also forgot to mention zeke not only had A game under 4 ypc but it was at 2.4 ypc and if you took out his one 27 yard run against Cleveland he would have had another 2.6 ypc game.

Didn’t hear you say anything about zeke leading the league in fumbles. 2 on 3 carries and 2 fumbles that directly resulted in a TD for the other game.

 

[INCowboysFan]

So Henry is to blame for the play calling? I said I’ve never seen him tap out.

Convenient you mention snap % but not carries. Henry has 120 carries, zeke has 90. You also forgot to mention zeke not only had A game under 4 ypc but it was at 2.4 ypc and if you took out his one 27 yard run against Cleveland he would have had another 2.6 ypc game.

Didn’t hear you say anything about zeke leading the league in fumbles. 2 on 3 carries and 2 fumbles that directly resulted in a TD for the other game.

So what does the # of carries tell you? Tells me that the Titans are controlling the LOS better and are not falling behind and having to abandon the run. Granted, Zeke's fumbles have contributed to that. But you seem to want to penalize Zeke for play calling by saying he only has 90 carries, but give Henry a pass on play calling when he is taken out. He must be a liability to some degree if they are taking him out of the game in certain situations.

did you hear that Henry fumbled more than Zeke last year?

Are we playing the "if that long run didn't happen" game? If so, lets take out that 94 yard run yesterday. You do that and Henry is averaging 4.04 ypc whiel Zeke is avg 4.08 ypc

 

[Playmaker3128]

so we’re gonna ignore how well Zeke catches the ball and Henry doesn’t? Henry hasn’t had 20 catches in a season... Zeke has had one 70 and one 50 catch season.


I think Zeke is under appreciated. Part of being a great running back is durability. Zeke has 5800 yards rushing in 4 and a half years (including missing 4 games cause of suspension)

If he duplicates that puts him top 20 all time.... and he’s a hall of famer.

He may not be flashy... but I know I can count on 1300 yds rushing and 10 tds every year. With 40 or so receptions and great pass blocking.

 

[mattjames2010]

LOL at people calling this hindsight

Plenty of people, including myself, were saying Ramsey + Henry would be better value than Zeke + Smith. Heck, I was saying if we go with Zeke we should draft Jack instead of Smith. Titans got the most dominant backs in the league to go with their great offensive line with a second rounder. No doubt in my mind Henry would have destroyed defenses in 2016 with the type of run blocking we had.

 

[aria]

So what does the # of carries tell you? Tells me that the Titans are controlling the LOS better and are not falling behind and having to abandon the run. Granted, Zeke's fumbles have contributed to that. But you seem to want to penalize Zeke for play calling by saying he only has 90 carries, but give Henry a pass on play calling when he is taken out. He must be a liability to some degree if they are taking him out of the game in certain situations.

did you hear that Henry fumbled more than Zeke last year?

Are we playing the "if that long run didn't happen" game? If so, lets take out that 94 yard run yesterday. You do that and Henry is averaging 4.04 ypc whiel Zeke is avg 4.08 ypc

Not at all, that’s why I’ve never liked the “he’s won two rushing titles” reasoning as to why zeke is/was the best. Like most RB’s who have won it, it was primarily due one reason, total carries which is a result of play calling. It also didn’t hurt he’s had a top 5 O line all but one year when it was ranked 10th.

You have no idea why they take him out in some situations, it’s dumb to assume it’s because he’s a liability. Henry also doesn’t have the luxury of arguably the best receiving trio in the country to take pressure off of him. Zeke has been living in a RB’s fantasy world since college and the only adversity he’s faced is off the field. There are a lot of running backs who are doing more with less and who would do more than zeke if they were in the same position.

When you look at individual skills over the last 4 years (2016 he was the best) he’s been top 10 in a couple, and mostly average to below average in several categories but no one wants to acknowledge that because they are either ignorant or know it doesn’t make him look nearly as good as they say. All they use to defend him is “rushing titles” and blocking.

You’re exactly right about taking out the long runs, I was hoping you would bring it up because zeke doesn‘t get any. For the past few years he’s been average at best at 10+, 20+, 30+ yard runs because he doesn’t have the speed or the elusiveness to make defenders miss.

 

[aria]

so we’re gonna ignore how well Zeke catches the ball and Henry doesn’t? Henry hasn’t had 20 catches in a season... Zeke has had one 70 and one 50 catch season.


I think Zeke is under appreciated. Part of being a great running back is durability. Zeke has 5800 yards rushing in 4 and a half years (including missing 4 games cause of suspension)

If he duplicates that puts him top 20 all time.... and he’s a hall of famer.

He may not be flashy... but I know I can count on 1300 yds rushing and 10 tds every year. With 40 or so receptions and great pass blocking.

So once again, play calling is Henry’s fault? Most of zeke’s catches are short swing passes or screens and he even drops those. If you want to bring up number of caught passes than Barkley blows him out of the water, along with McCaffrey but I’ve never used that as an argument because it’s more a result of play calling and the QB than the RB’s.

TD’s are another useless stat when talking about what RB’s are better because most most of the time they get them within the 5 yard line and it is a result of the play call which may also depend on what other personnel is on that team. Even if zeke had 3 TD’s for the entire season, I wouldn’t say a word unless he was constantly getting stuffed at the LOS because I know Dak is more than capable of sneaking it in like he did twice in one game, plus we have Coop, Gallup and Lamb as options.

 

[aria]

so we’re gonna ignore how well Zeke catches the ball and Henry doesn’t? Henry hasn’t had 20 catches in a season... Zeke has had one 70 and one 50 catch season.


I think Zeke is under appreciated. Part of being a great running back is durability. Zeke has 5800 yards rushing in 4 and a half years (including missing 4 games cause of suspension)

If he duplicates that puts him top 20 all time.... and he’s a hall of famer.

He may not be flashy... but I know I can count on 1300 yds rushing and 10 tds every year. With 40 or so receptions and great pass blocking.

Yeah, assuming he has a top 5-10 O line. I’d like to see what kind of numbers he would put up behind the Giants O line since Barkley has been there. There are also several other RB’s putting up similar numbers with much worse run blocking then what zeke has ever had to deal with and they do it on a weekly basis. We’ve caught glimpses of what happens to zeke when he doesn’t have 10 foot wide holes to run through and it’s not pretty.

I fully expect him to redeem himself tonight though against a bad run defense who just lost their best edge rusher and gave up 168 yards on the ground to Carolina and 123 to the JETS!

 

[INCowboysFan]

Some more food for thought

Zeke

• Yds per carry before contact: 2018 2.8, 2019 2.3, 2020 1.8
• Yds per carry after contact: 2018 2.0, 2019 2.3, 2020 2.3
• Broken tackles: 2018 19, 2019 24, 2020 9

Henry

• Yds per carry before contact: 2018 1.9, 2019 1.9, 2020 3.1
• Yds per carry after contact: 2018 3.1, 2019 3.2, 2020 1.7
• Broken tackles: 2018 34, 2019 28, 2020 8

The trend since 2018 is that Zeke is getting quicker, but is gaining yds after contact at the same pace. While Henry is not getting touched until he is further downfield, but goes down quicker once he is hit. I think this clearly illustrates the decline of our OL and the improvement of the Ten OL.

Interesting that even though Henry is 6'3 and 250 lbs, Zeke is breaking more tackles (this year) and gaining more yds per carry after being hit. He has 208 yds after contact on 89 carries vs 204 on 123 carries for Henry.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Absolutely.

But seeing how we didn’t pay Jones I suspect we’d be about to dump Ramsey too.

Still so dumb we paid Elliott.

This so much the Cowboys Time machines would just double down on some dumb Philosophys

 

[Q_the_man]

Zeke had what 4000+ yards his 1st 3 years

Henry had what 2200 yards his first 3 years.

By his 3rd year yall would have said cut Henry 700 yards a year average while Zeke avg 1300+.

All of a sudden Henry throws in 1 and a half good years and we forget about Zeke.

Everytime yall say a rb is better than Zeke they get hurt. Knock on wood.

McCaffrey hurt
Barkley hurt
Chubb hurt
Gurley bad knees
L aveon
Cason just not better
I remember some said Hunt before his incident was better.

Henry is good and I was good with either Henry or Zeke but wanted Zeke more. Zeke is still better as Henry has to prove he can sustain what he is doing.

Plus with Dak out Zeke is about to touch the ball alot more and prove his worth

 

[jterrell]

Zeke had what 4000+ yards his 1st 3 years

Henry had what 2200 yards his first 3 years.

By his 3rd year yall would have said cut Henry 700 yards a year average while Zeke avg 1300+.

All of a sudden Henry throws in 1 and a half good years and we forget about Zeke.

Everytime yall say a rb is better than Zeke they get hurt. Knock on wood.

McCaffrey hurt
Barkley hurt
Chubb hurt
Gurley bad knees
L aveon
Cason just not better
I remember some said Hunt before his incident was better.

Henry is good and I was good with either Henry or Zeke but wanted Zeke more. Zeke is still better as Henry has to prove he can sustain what he is doing.

Plus with Dak out Zeke is about to touch the ball alot more and prove his worth

Zeke has 7500 yards form scrimmage since he was drafted.
Henry has 5000....
And FWIW I argued for skipping Zeke and drafting Henry pre-draft because Rb value was essentially low.

Where I was wrong in 2016.
Zeke is a multi-purpose back who can run, catch and block.
He plays heavy snaps because DAL can;t get anyone who can do any 1 of the aspects better than him.

Henry is a monster rush option but he has offers literally NOTHING in the passing game.
If TENN is down 15 like Dallas seem sot be every week, Henry would flat be on the bench.