Derrick Henry vs Ezekiel Elliott

[LACowboysFan1]

This is just rationalizing away a poor decision by the Cowboys, something the Jones have done over and over and over and over that have led to a 24 year run without sniffing even a conference title game appearance.

At the time, no it wasn't the right decision. They locked up a fungible NFL position to a big contract that ate up a significant amount of cap space into a position that often sees the widest disparity in performance year to year. It's also a position that also sees the quickest drop off in production given the nature of the position. Further, the Cowboys had ample evidence of a significant number of teams viewing the RB position as just that, a fungible position, and still being able to build good running games without nearly the investment we made.

You can cite his stats all you want at the time of signing but when you sign a guy you aren't just rewarding him for what he did, you are also projecting what you think you will get from him over a significant portion of the contract. And that's even more important when considering a position like TB that shows guys can quickly fall off the map due to injuries/wear and tear/etc.

The Cowboys made a mistake in signing a TB, any TB, to that level of contract. And now we are going to have to choke on it for a few years most likely.

Don't agree. Cowboys signed Emmitt to a big contract, and were rewarded with 2 more SBs. Besides, you're quibbling over details, not the total idea of signing big contracts. If Dallas was stupid to do so, then we have several more stupid teams:

Saints - Signed Kamara to the same $15 mil a year deal in 2020.
Panthers - Signed McCaffery to a $16.015 mil deal in 2020.
Titans - Signed Henry to a $12.5 mil deal in 2020, and he's already 26 years old.
Bengals - Signed Joe Mixon to a $12 mil deal in 2020, and he's never been a Pro Bowler.

Zeke's contract is less than McCaffery's and the same as Kamara's. So you're saying the Saints, Panthers, Titans and Bengals are all stupid also. Bet those teams' gms don't think so.

As for "you aren't just rewarding him for what he did, you are also projecting what you think you will get from him over a significant portion of the contract.." Correct. There is no way anybody can know if Zeke was going to continue his success at the time, but without going over it all again, at his age, past production and lack of injury history, it's very reasonable to assume he could be just as productive for the next few years. If you don't agree, fine, I respect that, but you're making this into a "I'm right and you're wrong" thing, and that just isn't something we can do, without putting it into the 20/20 hindsight context...

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

MOST teams Offense ,the entire offense , struggles when you are down to your 3rd line..when i say struggle i mean SUK!

NOTE: WE ARE 3-8 BECAUSE OF THE INJURIES NOT ONE PLAYER TRULY HAS DONE WELL THIS SEASON, THE COACHES ARE FAILING BECAUSE OF INJUIRES, SO ITS SAFE TO ASSUME NO MATTER THE RB OR HIS SALARY, THEY WOULD BE STRUGGLING..

SO AGAIN tis has nothing to do with Zeke or his salary this is an anomaly of year and its so far from the norm injury wise you just have to put it behind you and look to 2021..

UM premiums were paid to the OL and they are all on IR..got it yet, light come on, cant be helped with the OL who also is very well paid all end up on IR and their backups in and out of the lineup so playing with 3rd string OL 100% handcuffs what you can do a coach or player..

lastly Jerry has the money to fix the defense regardless of what they paid zeke i mean he paid tank and Smith and will bring in some FA and draft picks to fix the defense..zeke is NOT holding the cap hostage , his deal was team friendly..

now Dak he made 32mil for 3.5 games of play and wants more.. hmmm in my minuscule knowledge of he cap and math id say that over 2.5 times more then zeke and zeke played with a bad hammie and is fighting though 16 game for his 12mil this year.. odd how that common sense says who was overpaid this year..

My statement has nothing to do with injuries, those are a part of the game. My statement has to do with this teams inability to manage its cap and keep us competitive because the dumb front office keeps spending money on a RB, when you could have gotten the same value by letting him walk and drafting a cheaper option or brining in a free agent.

 

[blueblood70]

My statement has nothing to do with injuries, those are a part of the game. My statement has to do with this teams inability to manage its cap and keep us competitive because the dumb front office keeps spending money on a RB, when you could have gotten the same value by letting him walk and drafting a cheaper option or brining in a free agent.

we have plenty of cap,


whoever this we do not are ignorant to the how the cap can be massaged i see it al around the league..KC paid everyone lol ive seen somehow team with under a million in cap space sign 4 players to new deals..dont assume you know what the deal is, again i said this Zekes deal is not effecting our cap use for future signing's.

let the pros handle money and business side of this

watch football

 

[MyFairLady]

Zeke contract would be fine if he wasn't a fat little quitter.

 

[Typhus]

It’s not about passing on Henry. It’s about reminders game after game, week after week, that you should not use high picks or give big money contracts to the RB position. You can get better production for less investment, and see across the league.

The Cowboys and Rams with Elliott and Gurley are the example of what not to do.

The Steelers with Bell are the example of what you should do.

Ive beat that drum so many times that the distant sound of drum beats becomes unnoticeable.

 

[Typhus]

Zeke contract would be fine if he wasn't a fat little quitter.

fat little multi millionaire on a fat second contract.

 

[Kingofholland]

I hate this debate, because after the first 3 seasons of their careers no one was having it. This is probably the first year where Henry is having a significantly better season than Elliott. As fans we get so caught up in one moment in time it's hard to look at all the facts.

Yes selecting a back in the top 5 isn't usually the most prudent choice in today's NFL, but considering the Cowboys were in win now mode had a big hole at RB it was tough to be mad at the selection.

Let's give it a few more seasons before jumping to conclusions over 1 season. That is all.

 

[G2]

I watched both of these RB's a lot in college and Elliott was way ahead of Henry in all 3 categories, block, catch and run, coming out of college and the rap on Henry was he needed time to get up to speed and use his size. I saw him stopped plenty of times at Bama.

Would I prefer to have Henry now? Certainly, along with his coaching staff and OL.

The first two years, I didn't notice all of this Elliott/Henry debate and now we play the hindsight game? C'mon, there are other shortcomings to discuss with this team before we get to a player that many are pissed at for his ball protection.

As far as that "party boy" image of Elliott's, that was a buyer beware situation from the beginning. How many fathers have to move to the city where their son goes to college to get him to calm down? And I am sure every poster here concerned about his extracurricular would be in bed at night at 9pm, right after making clothes for needy kids, harvesting the crops for Feed the World and an hour of scripture reading.

There was a poster on the old site that does have a case to make because we pretty much shut him down as a Bama Bowl Cut Booster but he wanted Ramsey with that 1st and Henry with that 2nd and that would have been one hell of a 1-2.

Maybe, but isn't Ramsey considered "overpaid" by the same standards? He's got a 105 million contract.

 

[Typhus]

fat little multi millionaire on a fat second contract.

No cherry flavored pop tarts in Dalvin Cooks pantry.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

I'll ask again. You said they are the 29th OL. Where is this stat? I looked and couldn't find it.

I looked at Football Outsiders, and in adjusted line yards, their primary OL run stat, the Cowboys were rated 7th. If you look at generic stats like rushing yards per game, etc, their OL is middle of the pack, or slightly higher. A couple weeks ago, the Cowboys OL was ranked, 13th in run blocking, by Next Gen stats.

So what stat are you citing that has them 29th? Is it an updated Next Gen stat? PFF?

After week 3 the Cowboys line was ranked 22nd, by PFF, and I seriously doubt it's improved by then. I could see them ranked 29th currently, after losing Martin and Erving this pas game.

We have backups to backups now starting at both OT spots, does anyone seriously think this is anywhere near a good offensive line?????

 

[Typhus]

Maybe, but isn't Ramsey considered "overpaid" by the same standards? He's got a 105 million contract.

Better to overpay a DB than a RB.

 

[Typhus]

After week 3 the Cowboys line was ranked 22nd, by PFF, and I seriously doubt it's improved by then. I could see them ranked 29th currently, after losing Martin and Erving this pas game.

We have backups to backups now starting at both OT spots, does anyone seriously think this is anywhere near a good offensive line?????

No but its a deeper OL..lol

 

[Sydla]

Don't agree. Cowboys signed Emmitt to a big contract, and were rewarded with 2 more SBs. Besides, you're quibbling over details, not the total idea of signing big contracts. If Dallas was stupid to do so, then we have several more stupid teams:

Saints - Signed Kamara to the same $15 mil a year deal in 2020.
Panthers - Signed McCaffery to a $16.015 mil deal in 2020.
Titans - Signed Henry to a $12.5 mil deal in 2020, and he's already 26 years old.
Bengals - Signed Joe Mixon to a $12 mil deal in 2020, and he's never been a Pro Bowler.

Zeke's contract is less than McCaffery's and the same as Kamara's. So you're saying the Saints, Panthers, Titans and Bengals are all stupid also. Bet those teams' gms don't think so.

As for "you aren't just rewarding him for what he did, you are also projecting what you think you will get from him over a significant portion of the contract.." Correct. There is no way anybody can know if Zeke was going to continue his success at the time, but without going over it all again, at his age, past production and lack of injury history, it's very reasonable to assume he could be just as productive for the next few years. If you don't agree, fine, I respect that, but you're making this into a "I'm right and you're wrong" thing, and that just isn't something we can do, without putting it into the 20/20 hindsight context...

Emmitt was a different time and a different era. Further, it's not like ALL TBs fall off the map. Adrian Peterson somehow stayed really good despite getting older and Smith was similar. But that's rare. Gurley, David Johnson, Murray, etc. these guys all started to show decline way earlier than other positions.

And citing all those team that overpaid their TBs doesn't move me. I wouldn't have signed any of those guys to what they got. Well, I would have signed McCaffery but that's because McCaffery is a well more rounded player than Zeke. McCaffery can actually play in the slot, return kicks, etc. He caught over 100 passes in each of the last two seasons. But even now, how's that big contract working out considering he's now showing some signs of wear and tear himself, first having to sit out with a bad ankle and then later missing games this year due to a banged up shoulder?

 

[Sydla]

we have plenty of cap,


whoever this we do not are ignorant to the how the cap can be massaged i see it al around the league..KC paid everyone lol ive seen somehow team with under a million in cap space sign 4 players to new deals..dont assume you know what the deal is, again i said this Zekes deal is not effecting our cap use for future signing's.

let the pros handle money and business side of this

watch football

We do not have plenty of cap space. It's ironic that you call other people ignorant about the cap but then say ignorant things.

You can only "massage" the cap to an extent before the bill comes due at some point. Some of you act like if you massage the cap/contracts it's like free money that you never have to pay back. That's false. "Massaging" the cap largely means restructuring contracts but all that means is that instead of taking cap hits NOW you are pushing them into the future. They don't disappear, they have to get accounted for eventually.

The Cowboys aren't in dire cap straights, but they aren't flush with cap space either. Especially if the cap goes down in 2021 like it likely will due to decreased revenues. They'll be able to create a bit of space with some smart restructures, but the reality is they won't be dripping with cap space to be really active in FA.

 

[CouchCoach]

Maybe, but isn't Ramsey considered "overpaid" by the same standards? He's got a 105 million contract.

Not talking about any 2nd contracts, just the rookie ones.

The real question is would Henry have been as effective as Elliott was in his rookie season? That offense ran through the RB and was the main reason they had such a good season and the QB had such a great rookie season.

 

[McKDaddy]

one thing is clear, the Zeke negotiations go differently if you had forced him to play out his contract rather than extend him two years early.

 

[Sydla]

After week 3 the Cowboys line was ranked 22nd, by PFF, and I seriously doubt it's improved by then. I could see them ranked 29th currently, after losing Martin and Erving this pas game.

We have backups to backups now starting at both OT spots, does anyone seriously think this is anywhere near a good offensive line?????

Well a few advanced statistical sites say the OL hasn't been nearly as bad as the pro-Zeke crowd wants to claim. Great OL play? No. Awful OL play? Yeah that's an overstatement too. At this point, the pro-Zeke crowd is just digging for any excuse they can.

An elite RB should be able to be much more effective behind a mediocre OL than Zeke is. And blaming the OL for the fact Zeke is loose with the football is weak too.

 

[cowboysfan99]

It’s not about passing on Henry. It’s about reminders game after game, week after week, that you should not use high picks or give big money contracts to the RB position. You can get better production for less investment, and see across the league.

The Cowboys and Rams with Elliott and Gurley are the example of what not to do.

The Steelers with Bell are the example of what you should do.

100% this. I hated the Elliott pick when it happened and I hate it even more now that we tied up big money in him. I've been having this exact conversation on Facebook and I've been told I'm clueless...by a guy who wants to trade multiple first round picks in the upcoming draft to get Trevor Lawrence.

 

[G2]

I'll ask again. You said they are the 29th OL. Where is this stat? I looked and couldn't find it.

I looked at Football Outsiders, and in adjusted line yards, their primary OL run stat, the Cowboys were rated 7th. If you look at generic stats like rushing yards per game, etc, their OL is middle of the pack, or slightly higher. A couple weeks ago, the Cowboys OL was ranked, 13th in run blocking, by Next Gen stats.

So what stat are you citing that has them 29th? Is it an updated Next Gen stat? PFF?

Line stats from undroppables, they rank pass, run and combined overall. 29th before losing our 2nd set of tackles. They do a decent job with injury reports as well. There's a second source I'll find when I have time, but could be mistaken.

There's no way they're 7th or even middle of the pack.

 

[G2]

We do not have plenty of cap space. It's ironic that you call other people ignorant about the cap but then say ignorant things.

You can only "massage" the cap to an extent before the bill comes due at some point. Some of you act like if you massage the cap/contracts it's like free money that you never have to pay back. That's false. "Massaging" the cap largely means restructuring contracts but all that means is that instead of taking cap hits NOW you are pushing them into the future. They don't disappear, they have to get accounted for eventually.

The Cowboys aren't in dire cap straights, but they aren't flush with cap space either. Especially if the cap goes down in 2021 like it likely will due to decreased revenues. They'll be able to create a bit of space with some smart restructures, but the reality is they won't be dripping with cap space to be really active in FA.

How much are we under the cap?