Derrick Henry vs Ezekiel Elliott

[Sydla]

But if that RB has had the chance to show you how much/how big of a production he can give you, then you would think you'd do everything within your power to
give him as much support cast as possible to keep that structure around him to better the team and keep bringing that level and skill set against opposing teams.

Zeke has done that - he had a resume. You've seen him at his best and highest level and how he has impacted the game.
Zeke was made the highest paid RB, based off what he did his first 3 years.
Team thought Zeke was at the time of his signing, what Titans thought Henry was at his re-signing.

I still don't sign him long term because of the nature of the position and the reality that a significant number of TBs, especially those that get a ton of touches early in their careers, tend to drop off much faster than other positions.

And let's be clear. This isn't about Elliott persay. It's about the TB position in general. I have been clear for years that I think it's a bad investment to pour a significant number of resources into the TB position. Sure you can find an example or two but the majority of successful teams, don't plow resources into the TB position like we did with Elliott. I wouldn't like signing Henry long term or Barkley or Gurley if they had been Cowboys too.

 

[G2]

Because you say so?

And what is undroppables? Good site? I like the stats based sits like Next Gen and Football Outsiders. Or are they more like PFF with their grades?

Because Ray Charles would say so. Good lord. You're biased because you point is his salary. That's your point. You think a player that got an extension should simply be better behind this O line. And it's not mediocre. It's one the worst O lines in the NFL. Henry runs behind a mediocre line.

 

[Sydla]

Because Ray Charles would say so. Good lord. You're biased because you point is his salary. That's your point. You think a player that got an extension should simply be better behind this O line. And it's not mediocre. It's one the worst O lines in the NFL. Henry runs behind a mediocre line.

And even if Elliott was running well I'd still say he was overpaid and it was a bad decision to sign him long term. Again, my issue isn't with Elliott. It's that the I think TB is one of the least important positions in today's NFL where you can build successful teams while pushing limited resources into the position and shifting them towards the DL and OL, two positional groups that have way more influence in the outcomes of games than a TB.

And if you look at the successful teams over the last 5-7 years, how many have highly paid, elite TBs? Not many. The Rams made the SB with Gurley but they actually rode CJ Anderson as much as they used Gurley in that SB run. And then the Rams couldn't wait to get rid of Gurley after that.

 

[G2]

You calling anyone biased is hilarious.

And even if Elliott was running well I'd still say he was overpaid. Again, my issue isn't with Elliott. It's that the I think TB is one of the least important positions in today's NFL where you can build successful teams while pushing limited resources into the position and shifting them towards the DL and OL, two positional groups that have way more influence in the outcomes of games than a TB.

Good. It's nice to see you agree that the O line is trash. You can't invest anymore than they already have into it, have the 2nd wave of injuries go down and expect to be a decent line. And since you weren't able to catch it the 1st 100 times I've posted it, I never would have drafted a RB in the early 1st round, or extended him early. But whining about it after doesn't change having an ultra low quality O line. Or suggesting it's anywhere near 7th in the NFL. Who's biased?

 

[cern]

Good. It's nice to see you agree that the O line is trash. You can't invest anymore than they already have into it, have the 2nd wave of injuries go down and expect to be a decent line. And since you weren't able to catch it the 1st 100 times I've posted it, I never would have drafted a RB in the early 1st round, or extended him early. But whining about it after doesn't change having an ultra low quality O line. Or suggesting it's anywhere near 7th in the NFL. Who's biased?

i would have drafted zeke where he was taken. but in retrospect, i would not have caved in to his cabo salary demands. he simply has not lived up to his new contract. and now we're stuck with him for at least one more year.

 

[Sydla]

Good. It's nice to see you agree that the O line is trash. You can't invest anymore than they already have into it, have the 2nd wave of injuries go down and expect to be a decent line. And since you weren't able to catch it the 1st 100 times I've posted it, I never would have drafted a RB in the early 1st round, or extended him early. But whining about it after doesn't change having an ultra low quality O line. Or suggesting it's anywhere near 7th in the NFL. Who's biased?

There is no "suggestion" there. That's a physical number from a respected stats website. I suspect way more people recognize Football Outsiders than Unstoppable, which appears to be a fantasy football blog.

And the point isn't to make the OL out to be great at this point. The reality is the OL isn't as awful as you claim, at least run blocking wise. It's certainly not great by any stretch either. But if Elliott is as elite as you guys want to claim, he should be more effective than he is now.

You guys are simply struggling with the reality that we are paying a decent to good TB now, who isn't a game changer, big play TB, elite money and that at the end of the day, that hurts the franchise.

 

[Sydla]

i would have drafted zeke where he was taken. but in retrospect, i would not have caved in to his cabo salary demands. he simply has not lived up to his new contract. and now we're stuck with him for at least one more year.

Two more.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

This hasn't been a contest in 3 years. Zeke was the better prospect and had the faster start, but Henry has proven the better pro. I think it just boils down to one guy loves football/lives and breaths it.......and the other guy is lazy.

You have no way of knowing that...

 

[blueblood70]

KC was able to pay Chris Jones strictly due to Mahomes taking a team friendly deal. Dak should pay attention.

they had like 5 big deals Hill, Kelce, Mahomes, Jones and some other defenders after had already had watson under a big deal..they mad eit work regardless and Yes i wish dak has a revelations post injury to they and be a little less rigid this go around..

 

[G2]

There is no "suggestion" there. That's a physical number from a respected stats website. I suspect way more people recognize Football Outsiders than Unstoppable, which appears to be a fantasy football blog.

And the point isn't to make the OL out to be great at this point. The reality is the OL isn't as awful as you claim, at least run blocking wise. It's certainly not great by any stretch either. But if Elliott is as elite as you guys want to claim, he should be more effective than he is now.

You guys are simply struggling with the reality that we are paying a decent to good TB now, who isn't a game changer, big play TB, elite money and that at the end of the day, that hurts the franchise.

Lol, yeah. Soon they'll have open tryouts for lineman, but "they're not that bad."

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Disagree. It's the same thing.

The money all comes from the same pot, overpaying is overpaying. Else why all the angst over Lawrence, T. Crawford, etc.?

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Sort of a moot point anyway, even if Zeke was doing better, the defense allows too many points to overcome.
And in 2016 Zeke was great, the o-line was very good, Dak was playing well - and they lost to GB. In 2017 Romo went down.

And of course we had Garrett, et al to screw things up.

Zeke, T. Smith, etc. have had their careers wasted, Zeke still has a good shot as he's young and healthy, but Smith is on borrowed time, no ring for him if it doesn't get here by 2021 or 2022. Shame...

 

[LACowboysFan1]

i would not have caved in to his cabo salary demands

And what would you have paid him? If not $15 mil a year, what? Wouldn't matter anyway, that's the way it is with a lot of Dallas fans - you're paid more than the "average bear" and if you're not a SB champ or "carrying the team on your back", you're "not worth the money".

Guarantee if Zeke was getting paid $14 mil, or $13 mil, or $12 mil, he'd still be roasted for not running for 2,000 yards and 30 tds...

 

[aria]

Then following that logic an elite back behind a great o-line would rush for like 3,000 yards, because if he can make yards behind a poor line, which actually equates to not having many holes to run through, with holes every carry should be 10 yards or so.

Of course that's not the way it works. Let's put it this way - if an elite back gets a carry and there is a solid wall of defensive linemen in front of him, with DEs on either side, what is going to happen nearly every time? No gain, or a loss, in yardage. Don't care how elite the back, he needs an opening somewhere to run through, and too often Zeke can't even get to the los before he's met by a defender. NO back is going to do well in that case, not even Barry Sanders... But Zeke can at least get a few yards, the "dime a dozen" backs likely wouldn't be able to...

Then how did Barkley do so well his rookie year behind one of the worst O lines in the league? That “dancing around” he did was making defenders miss and creating opportunities that weren’t there whereas as zeke just plows into someone for a couple yards because he’s slow and not elusive.

 

[CouchCoach]

You can argue taking a RB at 4 but not him. He was, by far, the top rated back and a true feature back at OSU. There was just as much buzz off his blocking and Romo was coming off an injury, I couldn't argue the pick at all.

Now, I will argue about capitulating on his hold out with 2 years left on his contract. They knew they had some high ticket players coming up and should have known having the triplets in the 3 highest paid would mean trouble. 15M in a RB vs 7.5 in 2 OL. Build the OL right and there are 50 backs that can run behind it. Just ask Mike Shanahan.

 

[CouchCoach]

And what would you have paid him? If not $15 mil a year, what? Wouldn't matter anyway, that's the way it is with a lot of Dallas fans - you're paid more than the "average bear" and if you're not a SB champ or "carrying the team on your back", you're "not worth the money".

Guarantee if Zeke was getting paid $14 mil, or $13 mil, or $12 mil, he'd still be roasted for not running for 2,000 yards and 30 tds...

I wouldn't pay any RB 11 figures unless he was irreplaceable. And if I did, I sure as hell wouldn't pay a WR 20M.

With this team, you can just about pick any highly paid player as an example, except maybe Martin, because they haven't figured out too much to too few is dicey and demands complete health.

 

[quickccc]

So an elite back should be able to get yards behind a poor line, as some say, right?

So Derrick Henry goes 25 carries for 84 yards against Jacksonville, 19 for 57 against Buffalo, and 21 for 68 against Chicago. Why didn't he go for 178 yards like he just did, against a top defense? If he's really elite, and shouldn't need a good line?

Because in the 3 games mentioned just maybe those teams keyed on Henry, and made stopping him their priority? Gee, maybe teams do that against Zeke most of the time? Why not, with Dalton or Denucci or Gilbert at quarteback?

It's not as simple as "if he's elite he should do well"....

- Henry has broken Ravens vaulted defense Twice now - In 2019 playoffs (as upset under-dogs)..and he did so again with 28 carries for 133 including the game winning TD run
- Colts did not surrender a 100 yrd rusher this year until Henry romped them for 133 yrds on 27 carries.

- I haven't jolted up Derrick's 20, 30 and 40+ yrd splash yards over the last 3 years ..vs whatever Zeke has acculumated as 20+ yrds splash yrds but i'm willing to
bet it's head and shoulders distances between the two.

- and I'm willing to bet Cleveland's Nick Chubb has even surpassed Zeke's splash runs counts over the last 2 years,... at a distance
Sadly truth be told, I no longer look forward to Zeke producing game breaking runs

 

[Illiniferret]

How are the Titans 5th and 6th string tackles looking this year.

 

[kskboys]

- Henry has broken Ravens vaulted defense Twice now - In 2019 playoffs (as upset under-dogs)..and he did so again with 28 carries for 133 including the game winning TD run
- Colts did not surrender a 100 yrd rusher this year until Henry romped them for 133 yrds on 27 carries.

- I haven't jolted up Derrick's 20, 30 and 40+ yrd splash yards over the last 3 years ..vs whatever Zeke has acculumated as 20+ yrds splash yrds but i'm willing to
bet it's head and shoulders distances between the two.

- and I'm willing to bet Cleveland's Nick Chubb has even surpassed Zeke's splash runs counts over the last 2 years,... at a distance
Sadly truth be told, I no longer look forward to Zeke producing game breaking runs

You guys fell for the hype. Zeke was never a game breaking RB. Sad part is, so did Jerry and this org.

 

[G2]

You can argue taking a RB at 4 but not him. He was, by far, the top rated back and a true feature back at OSU. There was just as much buzz off his blocking and Romo was coming off an injury, I couldn't argue the pick at all.

Now, I will argue about capitulating on his hold out with 2 years left on his contract. They knew they had some high ticket players coming up and should have known having the triplets in the 3 highest paid would mean trouble. 15M in a RB vs 7.5 in 2 OL. Build the OL right and there are 50 backs that can run behind it. Just ask Mike Shanahan.

Minus the suspension, he's been available his entire career and has a load of carries.