Twitter: Mel Kiper on Morris Claiborne Draft Pick

[CATCH17]

The problem with the Claiborne pick is what we gave up for it.

Horrible and costly move to trade up for him.

As for Mel liking MoClai, a lot of people did.
Not saying Kiper is the best, but even the very best miss on a TON of prospects.

We gave up a lot but it was fair for how far we moved.. I felt like we kinda ripped them off to move up that far.

 

[fivetwos]

Only in Dallas would you pay $50m for one corner and give up huge draft capital for another to run a press man scheme. Only to scrap that scheme and change it completely the next year. Every GM not named Jones gets fired for such inept team building

That's EXACTLY what happened and thank you.

I'm far more upset over that than the bust itself.

They at least had control over the scheme.

Still hurts though because according to Jerry the picks would have been Brockers and Wagner.

Ouch!

 

[Rockport]

Fair enough but it’s a total 2nd guess and the pick at the time was rock solid.

I agree. You can't just judge on talent alone. It's the whole package. I was all for it but I have no ability to judge a college player for the draft. 99.9% of us here don't.

 

[buybuydandavis]

As I suspected about Mo's college career. He got a bunch of INTs from balls thrown up for grabs against WRs running slowly who didn't compete for them.

He had a couple of very nice INTs, and looked good catching the ball generally, but in the NFL DBs won't get so many of those soft opportunities.

Mo was all illusion, with everyone projecting him as the next Patrick Peterson because he came from the same dominant school and got easy INTs, even though his combine numbers were thoroughly ordinary, and he got a 6 on his Wonderlic "because he blew it off", which should have been a *huge* red flag.

 

[CATCH17]

I agree. You can't just judge on talent alone. It's the whole package. I was all for it but I have no ability to judge a college player for the draft. 99.9% of us here don't.

Maybe in the 80s and 90s people didn’t have a clue but a lot of people have been following the draft and scouting players for ages.

If you pay attention they tell us every year traits to look for and it’s a long list that differs from position to position.

I think a lot of fans have no problem judging players and as you can see even NFL teams get it terribly wrong.

What fans can’t do is look at a player like Randy Gregory and not pick him top 20 because we have no clue what’s going on with someone like that off the field.

We have no clue why a runningback like Derius Guice is falling to the 2nd round so we label the NFL as bad people for taking retaliation to him publicly criticizing them for their questioning.. Then we eventually find out that Guice isn’t a great person off the field eventually.

 

[Rockport]

Maybe in the 80s and 90s people didn’t have a clue but a lot of people have been following the draft and scouting players for ages.

If you pay attention they tell us every year traits to look for and it’s a long list that differs from position to position.

I think a lot of fans have no problem judging players and as you can see even NFL teams get it terribly wrong.

What fans can’t do is look at a player like Randy Gregory and not pick him top 20 because we have no clue what’s going on with someone like that off the field.

We have no clue why a runningback like Derius Guice is falling to the 2nd round so we label the NFL as bad people for taking retaliation to him publicly criticizing them for their questioning.. Then we eventually find out that Guice isn’t a great person off the field eventually.

I disagree. 99.9% of us have no clue. Players fit some schemes better than others. We don't know any of that. You're fooling yourself if you think you can accurately judge a player like a scout or coach could. Unless you're a scout or a coach.

 

[CATCH17]

I disagree. 99.9% of us have no clue. Players fit some schemes better than others. We don't know any of that. You're fooling yourself if you think you can accurately judge a player like a scout or coach could. Unless you're a scout or a coach.

Well.. I disagree and there is countless examples of people projecting guys exactly right on this forum over the years and there is countless examples of NFL teams being completely wrong with their projection of a player.

These NFL guys are not these all knowing people. They are humans that look to identify the same traits that those of us who have followed the draft know to look for.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Almost everyone thought Claiborne was going to be an elite NFL corner and going by his college tape you would've been a fool to not have that projection.

His only red flag was his wonderlic.

This is just pure hindsight / Monday Morning Quarterbacking.

I didn't see an elite CB, and I know others here who didn't see one either. Thoroughly ordinary combine. A couple of nice INTs in his highlite reel, but mostly just soft throws against WRs who were barely running and didn't compete for the balls. That's better than dropping them, but not someone to spend a 6th on.

To me, Mo was a slow Mike Jenkins with a major red flag from his Wonderlic. Meh. But all the Top Men said he'd be fantastic, so I shrugged.

Very iffy to draft a college CB based on INTs, particularly from a powerhouse defense. They're going to play with a lead, be dominating the offense, and get a chance at a lot of easy picks. I see some very easy pickings in this highlite reel.

 

[CATCH17]

I didn't see an elite CB, and I know others here who didn't see one either. Thoroughly ordinary combine. A couple of nice INTs in his highlite reel, but mostly just soft throws against WRs who were barely running and didn't compete for the balls. That's better than dropping them, but not someone to spend a 6th on.

To me, Mo was a slow Mike Jenkins with a major red flag from his Wonderlic. Meh. But all the Top Men said he'd be fantastic, so I shrugged.

Very iffy to draft a college CB based on INTs, particularly from a powerhouse defense. They're going to play with a lead, be dominating the offense, and get a chance at a lot of easy picks. I see some very easy pickings in this highlite reel.

Good call is all I can say and I would've had no problem drafting Claiborne based on his college tape.

The Cowboys unfortunately agreed with me and they got punished.

 

[buybuydandavis]

For Mo it wasn't. He walked in, signed his name, turned around and walked out. He knew taking that meant nothing.

Choosing to blow off the Wonderlic is a bigger red flag than just being dumb. That's a guy who *is* probably dumb, is trying to hide it from others and himself, and thinks he's entitled to just blow it off.

 

[Rockport]

Well.. I disagree and there is countless examples of people projecting guys exactly right on this forum over the years and there is countless examples of NFL teams being completely wrong with their projection of a player.

These NFL guys are not these all knowing people. They are humans that look to identify the same traits that those of us who have followed the draft know to look for.

Sure you can project a guy. But you are they are getting your judgements from the likes of Mel Kiper and McShay and not from watching tape of the guy.

 

[buybuydandavis]

I remember when we drafted Witten and people were upset we didn't draft Lee Suggs.

There is always another guy to draft. I worry about the guys we do pick more than the guys we don't, although the TJ Watt mistake doubled up the Taco was a bad one to me. He was a direct alternative, not just another good player.

 

[CATCH17]

Sure you can project a guy. But you are they are getting your judgements from the likes of Mel Kiper and McShay and not from watching tape of the guy.

lol no..

I do like to hear everyone’s opinion but I make my own decisions..

A recent example would be everyone telling me how great Justin Fields is..

I look at him and say.. He’s not nearly as good as Trevor Lawrence, I see big holes in his current game, and I don’t even think he has the #2 QB position locked up going into the draft.

Well that causes a lot of people to get upset and tell me I have no clue.

Now look where we are today.. This is accepted knowledge at this point.

So I do appreciate all opinions but I do think I know what to look for and if I’m wrong then I’m wrong but so are the “experts”.

 

[CATCH17]

Sure you can project a guy. But you are they are getting your judgements from the likes of Mel Kiper and McShay and not from watching tape of the guy.

Another example for you..

Tyron Smith was a nobody when I made this post.. He was a skinny right tackle for USC that I accidentally spotted when watching others on their team.

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/uscs-right-tackle.191058/

I doubt very seriously if Mel or anyone but maybe the teams local scout and USC fans had a clue who he was at that time.

 

[Rockport]

Another example for you..

Tyron Smith was a nobody when I made this post.. He was a skinny right tackle for USC that I accidentally spotted when watching others on their team.

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/uscs-right-tackle.191058/

I doubt very seriously if Mel or anyone but maybe the teams local scout and USC fans had a clue who he was at that time.

Yeah, I'm not buying it. Many had him in the 1st round

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2010/05/tyron-smith-scouting-report.html

 

[CATCH17]

Yeah, I'm not buying it. Many had him in the 1st round

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2010/05/tyron-smith-scouting-report.html

I'd like to see a date on that article.

Of course everyone had him as a 1st rounder eventually.

When I posted that was September 2nd the year he was drafted. He wasn't a big name at all. Their other Tackle was much more highly regarded. Probably why he was the Right Tackle.

What's funny is you think I would actually lie about something like that lol.

 

[Rockport]

I'd like to see a date on that article.

Of course everyone had him as a 1st rounder eventually.

When I posted that was September 2nd the year he was drafted. He wasn't a big name at all. Their other Tackle was much more highly regarded. Probably why he was the Right Tackle.

What's funny is you think I would actually lie about something like that lol.

Dec 1, 2010

 

[CATCH17]

Dec 1, 2010

So 3 months after I made that post in the 1st game of the season for USC.

Of course people were on to it by December 1. Cat was out of the bag by then.

 

[DFWJC]

We gave up a lot but it was fair for how far we moved.. I felt like we kinda ripped them off to move up that far.

Oh yeah, on the trade chart it was fair....within 5%

Thats not what I meant.
I was just really upset we gave up that much (14th and 45th picks) for that player in that draft.

It was one of my least favorite trades because
1) we essentially gave up Brockers AND Bobby Wagner for Claiborne
or
2) we could've done a smaller trade up (say our 1st and 4thi stead of 1st and 2nd) and gotten Fletcher Cox....a player most of us loved. Imagine ending up with Cox and Wagner (or Jeffrey)....wow

no big deal.
This trade has always been a sour issue with me since day one.

 

[CATCH17]

Oh yeah, on the trade chart it was fair....within 5%

Thats not what I meant.
I was just really upset we gave up that much (14th and 45th picks) for that player in that draft.

It was one of my least favorite trades because
1) we essentially gave up Brockers AND Bobby Wagner for Claiborne
or
2) we could've done a smaller trade up (say our 1st and 4thi stead of 1st and 2nd) and gotten Fletcher Cox....a player most of us loved. Imagine ending up with Cox and Wagner (or Jeffrey)....wow

no big deal.
This trade has always been a sour issue with me since day one.

I remember we were rumored to like Alex Barron a lot (Alabama safety) I do remember some Brockers talk as well.