Your pick at 10. CB or TE?

If these players are there at #10, who are you picking?

  • Kyle Pitts

  • Patrick Surtain II / Jaycee Horn

Results are only viewable after voting.
kskboys said:
Pitts and Surtain are rated almost the same, w/ Pitts being an edge higher. Very slightly. Not anywhere near enough to warrant taking him over Surtain.
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I think you are overstating Surtain a bit. Pitts is a consensus top 5 player in this draft. The lowest I've seen him is 5... while the highest I've seen Surtain is 15. That's 10 spots man.. Still if Pitts falls to 10 there is going to be a reason that we on the outside may or may not be aware of in which case Surtain might just be the better pick. But if teams are passing on Pitts out of some misguided notion that "first round tight ends don't usually pan out" then fine by me.. I'll take him and never look back.
 
kskboys said:
The book is far from written on Chaisson. He's a raw player and did improve down the stretch. Lamb was decidedly better out the gate, yes.
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Problem is of course we did get Lamb, so we know what he did. What Chaisson could have done is unknown, we can surmise based on what he did for the Jags, but that's hardly a certainty....
 
RonnieT24 said:
I think you are overstating Surtain a bit. Pitts is a consensus top 5 player in this draft. The lowest I've seen him is 5... while the highest I've seen Surtain is 15. That's 10 spots man.. Still if Pitts falls to 10 there is going to be a reason that we on the outside may or may not be aware of in which case Surtain might just be the better pick. But if teams are passing on Pitts out of some misguided notion that "first round tight ends don't usually pan out" then fine by me.. I'll take him and never look back.
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Sorry, Ron, I don't grade prospects on draft slots. I also don't use the TE's in the first don't work out thingie.

Every prospect is different and every draft is different. While I didn't necessarily agree w/ the Lamb pick last year, it's hard to fault taking such a highly rated player. However, Pitts is not rated that much higher than Surtain. It's very close. You could turn that around and say that we better not pass up Surtain, and if we do Pitts had better be the next Gronk w/o the injury issues.

Surtain is tall and a great downfield defender. He will most likely be able to take a team's #1 WR out of the game. And that is most likely going to be more important than adding another weapon to an already stacked O.
 
LACowboysFan1 said:
Problem is of course we did get Lamb, so we know what he did. What Chaisson could have done is unknown, we can surmise based on what he did for the Jags, but that's hardly a certainty....
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He started out slow, as predicted, and started coming on down the stretch. However, I was never really for taking him that high, as he was sort of a project type. Liked him, didn't love him.
 
kskboys said:
Pitts does have injury red flags. Nothing definite, but to be considered.

College production is not a good way to assess prospects.
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I don't know where this comes from. The only injury he had in college was a concussion he got going over the middle and got hit helmet to helmet. And we know colleges go waaaay overboard on stuff like that. I think he missed two games for the concussion and one more for Covid tracing.

And while I agree college production ALONE is not a good way to assess prospects.. it certainly must be factored in. If a guy played in an offense that only threw it 20 times a game we grade him differently than a guy who played in an offense that threw it 50. But if we apply context we can most certainly make use of it as a tool in the toolbelt. I'm certainly not going to dismiss the college tape.. Especially when the prospects are playing at similar levels of competition. Are you? It's not like Pitts was playing at 1-AA and beasting on future grocery clerks, dentists and UPS drivers... or playing in the Pac 12 or Big 12 where defense is optional. He was beasting on SEC players.. Guys who will be playing on Sundays.
 
RonnieT24 said:
I don't know where this comes from. The only injury he had in college was a concussion he got going over the middle and got hit helmet to helmet. And we know colleges go waaaay overboard on stuff like that. I think he missed two games for the concussion and one more for Covid tracing.

And while I agree college production ALONE is not a good way to assess prospects.. it certainly must be factored in. If a guy played in an offense that only threw it 20 times a game we grade him differently than a guy who played in an offense that threw it 50. But if we apply context we can most certainly make use of it as a tool in the toolbelt. I'm certainly not going to dismiss the college tape.. Especially when the prospects are playing at similar levels of competition. Are you? It's not like Pitts was playing at 1-AA and beasting on future grocery clerks, dentists and UPS drivers... or playing in the Pac 12 or Big 12 where defense is optional. He was beasting on SEC players.. Guys who will be playing on Sundays.
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College tape, absolutely. College stats, not even.

Making it in the NFL is about skillset, instincts, and motor. Yes, there are other factors, but those are the big 3. College stats are to be looked at, and then the real evaluation begins.

Yes, the injury red flags appear to be minor. However, when assessing players, all facets must be considered. He also missed the LSU game due to an undisclosed injury. And then you have his frame being a bit lanky, also to be considered.

I like Pitts, just don't think he improves our team all that much. Just not enough balls to go around.
 
kskboys said:
He started out slow, as predicted, and started coming on down the stretch. However, I was never really for taking him that high, as he was sort of a project type. Liked him, didn't love him.
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I wouldn't have taken a DE high anyway....
 
kskboys said:
Sorry, Ron, I don't grade prospects on draft slots. I also don't use the TE's in the first don't work out thingie.

Every prospect is different and every draft is different. While I didn't necessarily agree w/ the Lamb pick last year, it's hard to fault taking such a highly rated player. However, Pitts is not rated that much higher than Surtain. It's very close. You could turn that around and say that we better not pass up Surtain, and if we do Pitts had better be the next Gronk w/o the injury issues.

Surtain is tall and a great downfield defender. He will most likely be able to take a team's #1 WR out of the game. And that is most likely going to be more important than adding another weapon to an already stacked O.
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Oh I am not arguing AGAINST taking Surtain. I like him.. A LOT.. But I also like Pitts.. Being a Florida guy I've watched every snap of his college career. The dude is scary good and my biggest fear is that he becomes another Randy Moss for us.. A kid who wants to play for the Cowboys, thinks he's going to the Cowboys and then spends the next 15 years mad at us for not taking him and making us pay every time he faces us. If he goes to the WFTs he will be a twice a year nightmare.

By the way, I think he has a chance to be better than Gronk because he's so much faster and a more natural and fluid pass catcher and athlete.
 
RonnieT24 said:
Oh I am not arguing AGAINST taking Surtain. I like him.. A LOT.. But I also like Pitts.. Being a Florida guy I've watched every snap of his college career. The dude is scary good and my biggest fear is that he becomes another Randy Moss for us.. A kid who wants to play for the Cowboys, thinks he's going to the Cowboys and then spends the next 15 years mad at us for not taking him and making us pay every time he faces us. If he goes to the WFTs he will be a twice a year nightmare.

By the way, I think he has a chance to be better than Gronk because he's so much faster and a more natural and fluid pass catcher and athlete.
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If he's as freakishly unguardable as Gronk, ouch. Does that mean we fix the D in the next coupla rounds?
 
kskboys said:
If he's as freakishly unguardable as Gronk, ouch. Does that mean we fix the D in the next coupla rounds?
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I'm on record stating that the ONLY way I'm okay with taking Pitts would be that we used the rest of the draft on defenders. Just keep throwing darts until we hit something. Whether it be taking 9 guys or packaging picks to move up or trading picks for players.. How we get there is unimportant as long as we get there. I don't think we can make this a championship defense in one year anyway which is the main reason I would not balk at taking what I believe to be a generational talent like Pitts on offense. I don't think there is a defensive player on the board who comes in and turns this defense around in year one. So if the guy(s) we get is going to take a year to truly make an impact on defense then taking an immediate impact offensive player might be the move. We KNOW we have solid guys at TE already.. But if you can get a monster you have to consider it. Look at it this way.. Let's say there was a guard in the draft we thought was going to be as good as Larry Allen.. Now we have one hall of game guard already and one decent one .. Would anyone here mind if we took Larry Allen and moved Connor Williams somewhere else? That's what Pitts looks like to me.. He's a Larry Allen level tight end. Sure I could be wrong.. but that's what my eyes tell me. I did not watch every snap of Surtain's career like I did Pitts.. but I did watch him (and Diggs) get lit up by Burrow and the LSU gang and then again in the SEC Championship game in 2020 against Florida Pitts and Toney had their way with Bama's secondary. If Florida could run the ball AT ALL or defense the run they would have been the SEC champs not Bama.. Granted the two or three games of Surtain's career I did watch intently were against some of the best QB/WR pairings in college football history but that's the bar in the NFL and I did not see "shutdown corner" in any of those games. I did see good solid NFL corner with potential .. but not Deion Sanders or even Revis. But we both know it's all a crapshoot anyway.. just something to kick around!!
 
RonnieT24 said:
I'm on record stating that the ONLY way I'm okay with taking Pitts would be that we used the rest of the draft on defenders. Just keep throwing darts until we hit something. Whether it be taking 9 guys or packaging picks to move up or trading picks for players.. How we get there is unimportant as long as we get there. I don't think we can make this a championship defense in one year anyway which is the main reason I would not balk at taking what I believe to be a generational talent like Pitts on offense. I don't think there is a defensive player on the board who comes in and turns this defense around in year one. So if the guy(s) we get is going to take a year to truly make an impact on defense then taking an immediate impact offensive player might be the move. We KNOW we have solid guys at TE already.. But if you can get a monster you have to consider it. Look at it this way.. Let's say there was a guard in the draft we thought was going to be as good as Larry Allen.. Now we have one hall of game guard already and one decent one .. Would anyone here mind if we took Larry Allen and moved Connor Williams somewhere else? That's what Pitts looks like to me.. He's a Larry Allen level tight end. Sure I could be wrong.. but that's what my eyes tell me. I did not watch every snap of Surtain's career like I did Pitts.. but I did watch him (and Diggs) get lit up by Burrow and the LSU gang and then again in the SEC Championship game in 2020 against Florida Pitts and Toney had their way with Bama's secondary. If Florida could run the ball AT ALL or defense the run they would have been the SEC champs not Bama.. Granted the two or three games of Surtain's career I did watch intently were against some of the best QB/WR pairings in college football history but that's the bar in the NFL and I did not see "shutdown corner" in any of those games. I did see good solid NFL corner with potential .. but not Deion Sanders or even Revis. But we both know it's all a crapshoot anyway.. just something to kick around!!
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And if both Pitts and Surtain are gone by 10 all these discussions and arguments will be moot anyway...
 
LACowboysFan1 said:
And if both Pitts and Surtain are gone by 10 all these discussions and arguments will be moot anyway...
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Well truth be told they're moot regardless since neither McClay, Jerry, Stephen or McCarthy are logging in here looking for insights.. Let's not fool ourselves, this is for OUR entertainment.. nothing more nothing less.
 
RonnieT24 said:
Well truth be told they're moot regardless since neither McClay, Jerry, Stephen or McCarthy are logging in here looking for insights.. Let's not fool ourselves, this is for OUR entertainment.. nothing more nothing less.
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And no doubt some here can certainly find something else to get mad about, name call other posters and belittle others' opinions even if both of those are gone.

;)
 
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