Video: Broaddus: There's a divide in the Cowboys war room about Surtain and Horn

[Winonesoon]

Who do you trade with to move down just a few spots
Everyone would love to trade down and still get a great player but it’s not easy or guaranteed

Ageed I'm not gonna try. I have to trust. Thats a big gamble. Who the heck knows until its time to play? I have a card or two that you couldn't pry out of my fingers. we shall see.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

OK, this IS about scheme people. I don't care what you say, the DC better be banging on the table for his guy or he might as well be walking out the door. This is what PFF says about both of these Corners:

1. PATRICK SURTAIN II, ALABAMA
PFF BIG BOARD RANK: 13
Surtain was the highest-graded cornerback in college football this past season and has seen his PFF grade increase every single year since his freshman campaign. It's also not hard to project him to the NFL, as he has played 662 press coverage snaps over the past two years.

2. JAYCEE HORN, SOUTH CAROLINA
PFF BIG BOARD RANK: 18
This is the press-man cornerback you want in this draft class. He allowed only eight catches from 24 targets in the SEC last season. The issue was that even with the relatively lax college rules, Horn was still flagged five times. He’ll need to reel that in at the next level.


So, as I have been trying to explain, and mind you, this was the take before Horn showed he was the faster, quicker guy, the key thing here is Horn's ability to play Press. That's what CBs are asked to do in the Seattle scheme. This is what you are looking for from your Corner. This is why he is the better pick for us. It's really pretty simple IMO but whatever......

 

[morasp]

Not gonna happen I'm guessing but I'm with you. I would love to pick up another pick and Horn. Ideal right?

I don't think so either, the mock draft simulator I use must be dialed in somehow because I used to be able to trade back and get Horn at 15 and now he's gone at 13.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Well you have Surtain who is very similar to Byron Jones. And you have Horn who is very similar to Richard Sherman.

Surtain is not similar to Byron Jones at all. Surtain has actual coverage skills. Jones best coverage skill was being tall, fast and having long arms

 

[Aven8]

If that’s the case we are set
Take surtain at 10 and Horn in the 5th round lol

Jones was actually 28th wasn’t he?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That’s the perfect scenario
But risky
I remember us wanting a center real bad one year and someone traded just in front of us and got him

Yeah, that happens. But hey, there was this one year where we traded down, got an extra pick and a pretty dang good Center, as well.

I guess you never know.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Surtain is not similar to Byron Jones at all. Surtain has actual coverage skills. Jones best coverage skill was being tall, fast and having long arms

This isn't true. Jones had cover skills, just not great ball skills. Neither does Surtain BTW.

 

[darthseinfeld]

OK, this IS about scheme people. I don't care what you say, the DC better be banging on the table for his guy or he might as well be walking out the door. This is what PFF says about both of these Corners:

1. PATRICK SURTAIN II, ALABAMA
PFF BIG BOARD RANK: 13
Surtain was the highest-graded cornerback in college football this past season and has seen his PFF grade increase every single year since his freshman campaign. It's also not hard to project him to the NFL, as he has played 662 press coverage snaps over the past two years.

2. JAYCEE HORN, SOUTH CAROLINA
PFF BIG BOARD RANK: 18
This is the press-man cornerback you want in this draft class. He allowed only eight catches from 24 targets in the SEC last season. The issue was that even with the relatively lax college rules, Horn was still flagged five times. He’ll need to reel that in at the next level.


So, as I have been trying to explain, and mind you, this was the take before Horn showed he was the faster, quicker guy, the key thing here is Horn's ability to play Press. That's what CBs are asked to do in the Seattle scheme. This is what you are looking for from your Corner. This is why he is the better pick for us. It's really pretty simple IMO but whatever......

Surtain is a very good press CB

 

[JD_KaPow]

What are you talking about? Go back and reread the thread.

But so you know, scouts don't scout everybody. Scouts look for guys who fit scheme. That's how it works in the Pros. Too many players to scout everybody.

Now, I will say this, teams will scout top players so it's likely that scouts have looked at both of these guys but still in all, they haven't been focusing on guys who don't fit. Also, they haven't been going to games and watching as much live necessarily because most of these guys, they haven't been able to because of Covid. They have been watching a lot of video.

So yes, just because you are scout, doesn't mean you understand the scheme or what players fit best. That, like anything else, is a learning process.

If scouts were as competent as you seem to suggest, we wouldn't miss on anything. It's not an exact science for sure.

I don't know where you get the idea that I think scouts are perfect, but I know a couple things. They've scouted Surtain and Horn to death. We're not talking about 6th-round prospects, where yes the scouts are picking and choosing. And scouts can tell you what the guys do well, do poorly, and what physical traits they have. There's no new scheme for a CB that's so exotic or mysterious that the scouts can't tell you how the player might fit.

 

[Aven8]

Surtain is not similar to Byron Jones at all. Surtain has actual coverage skills. Jones best coverage skill was being tall, fast and having long arms

My point is very sound clean guys. They also don’t intercept the football very often.

 

[jazzcat22]

It’s Broaddus, I will take it with the entire salt shaker.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't think so either, the mock draft simulator I use must be dialed in somehow because I used to be able to trade back and get Horn at 15 and now he's gone at 13.

It's because he tested so much better then everybody thought he would. That's what I'm guessing.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Surtain is a very good press CB

Neither of these guys are bad at anything. But Surtain is not nearly as good, in this regard, as is Horn IMO. Hell, the Georgia kid is much better then Surtain, in terms of Press IMO.

 

[Stash]

No kidding, with our coaching carousel who knows how long these guys will be here. I don't know how much say he had at Atlanta but everything I read says they need more talent on defense.

I wonder how many of last year’s draft draftees are ‘Mike Nolan picks’?

 

[stilltheguru]

Horn has the most upside. He is a lockdown corner just looking at the film, he played the same competition as Surtain with a more limited supporting cast and performed as well.

Horn never played Jamar Chase or any Ohio st guys OR any Clemson guys. Horn only played Devonte Smith and got killed. Seth Williams and a few reps vs Pitts were he was holding him is his claim to fame. Surtain played the guantlet, not Horn

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't know where you get the idea that I think scouts are perfect, but I know a couple things. They've scouted Surtain and Horn to death. We're not talking about 6th-round prospects, where yes the scouts are picking and choosing. And scouts can tell you what the guys do well, do poorly, and what physical traits they have. There's no new scheme for a CB that's so exotic or mysterious that the scouts can't tell you how the player might fit.

Well, I think I just said that but still, it's the scheme fit that makes the difference. Horn is a better fit and Quinn knows it. But think what you want. I'm not against people having opinions.

 

[bewp7]

go with scout please

these coach will all be gone in a year or two any way

 

[JBS]

OK, this IS about scheme people. I don't care what you say, the DC better be banging on the table for his guy or he might as well be walking out the door. This is what PFF says about both of these Corners:

1. PATRICK SURTAIN II, ALABAMA
PFF BIG BOARD RANK: 13
Surtain was the highest-graded cornerback in college football this past season and has seen his PFF grade increase every single year since his freshman campaign. It's also not hard to project him to the NFL, as he has played 662 press coverage snaps over the past two years.

2. JAYCEE HORN, SOUTH CAROLINA
PFF BIG BOARD RANK: 18
This is the press-man cornerback you want in this draft class. He allowed only eight catches from 24 targets in the SEC last season. The issue was that even with the relatively lax college rules, Horn was still flagged five times. He’ll need to reel that in at the next level.


So, as I have been trying to explain, and mind you, this was the take before Horn showed he was the faster, quicker guy, the key thing here is Horn's ability to play Press. That's what CBs are asked to do in the Seattle scheme. This is what you are looking for from your Corner. This is why he is the better pick for us. It's really pretty simple IMO but whatever......

Dane brugler says the exact opposite. He says Horn isn't the best fit in this scheme and ps2 is a much better scheme fit

 

[817Gill]

CB unless it’s Pitts or Sewell, I like it.

 

[French]

Scouts make determinations based on talent and what is shown on tape. Coaches will ignore some flaws with the idea they can fix it. On draft day, I trust the scouts.